All,
It has been an issue that the RPO database is not consistent or accurate with our years of cars. I'd like to get the ball rolling and see if we, as a collective group, can build an RPO database specific for each year. I will be starting threads for each year and I'd like people to help fill in the *KNOWN* RPO codes for that given year. I don't want people to add RPOs they think they know or any RPOs that have the (91) after them unless it's for the 1991 model year. If you are aware of an RPO for a given year and don't have the definition, let's document it for that specific year and we'll get the definition. I'd like to build as complete a list for each year as possible.

What's everyone's opinion on this? We need TGO to have everything 3rd gen related documented. As these cars get older, we need to be THE resource website for anything 3rd gen so people don't use sites like iroc-z.com.

 

Great idea!! I'm ready to help as much as I can.

One other point, the RPOs for Camaros and Firebirds do seem to differ slightly in terms of the actual item based on the RPO (at least for things like striping).

I can certainly supply RPOs for 1984 (T/A), 1988 (GTA), 1989( Firebird), and 1991(Firebird).

 

Im sure a lot of the TGO members will help out with the RPOs for any of the given years of Camaros and Firebirds

 

I think it would be best to post documentation. Build sheets, as well as some years of shop manuals, have the code and a definition next to them. However, not all years of shop manuals contain that information. In the latter cases, it points to the Parts and Illustration manual which also does not appear to adequately or completely describe them. Therefore, a mix of buildsheets and shop manual documention can probably take care of a majority of this?

The 1992 Firebird shop manual has the RPO codes and definition listed, so I have that. However the 1988 and 1985 Firebird shop manuals simply refer to the Parts and Illustration manual.

I can probably help build a php/mysql script for use on ThirdGen so it can be similar to the old one.

 

My intention is to get all codes specific to a given year and eventually build a database where someone can supply the year of their car and enter any/all codes and they will get a valid definition for that year. This will eliminate alot of the issues with stripe colors and also the 18" body extension we've all seen. What I don't know about is creating 22 new threads to acquire all of this data, 1 for each year and make.

I have a master list of all RPO codes used by GM during the 1982 - 1992 model years. The problem is that it doesn't list the 1C5 code for 1985 and isn't specific to 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds. That's why we need this built.

 

22 threads is probably a bad idea. One thread, with all the data, and one score keeper. Anyone can reply to the thread and suggest changes, the score keeper can judge those changes and make them if they're deemed accurate. Then the discussion of that change could be deleted so the thread doesn't get too crazy. Known wrong data that's suggested could be deleted right away.

When the info is all collected, it could be put on a link from the main page.

The trick is that it has to be really easy to use. Even if it's just a list of codes. And there need to be footnotes anytime a code has more then one meaning, or the code has to be relatively vague. Like G92 can't have a definition that lists every part of the later G92 package. Going by year just makes things more difficult. An RPO decoder doesn't need to answer every potential question, it just has to define what the code means. The key codes that matter are the ones we all have memorized, the rest are all just question generators if/when they come back with ???.

 

As I mentioned to Scott, quite some time ago, I had a working draft of a web-based RPO decoder. The reader visited the page, selected their year from the drop-down menu as well as Camaro or Firebird. The results returned were RPO codes for that specific year and Camaro or Firebird. The reader would then place check marks next to the 3-character codes, click on Submit, then the definitions would be returned. The latter part may be something to skip and just have all RPO codes and definitions returned for that selected year and Camaro or Firebird without the need to place check marks next to the codes you're looking for.

The old RPO decoder, as you know, required the reader to manually type in all of the 3-character RPO codes that they wanted, which required typing them into separated input fields. I think the above method would be easier and faster.

It could very easily be expanded with notes as well as a path to submitting (trusted) RPO codes that are later discovered.

 

Sounds good. How can we help?

I do have the original window stickers from both of my 3rd gens if that can be of use.

 

My thought was to just have us emailed build sheets, window stickers and a copy of the shop manual (if the RPO codes were printed for that year). If window stickers, it might be best to stick to originals (if legible) because the reproductions have been proven to contain errors. Maybe Scott handle the Camaro side while I the Firebird side. Could still have a thread for updates and further discussions.

For those years the shop manual doesn't have the RPO codes listed it will take several build sheets and window stickers for that given year to become populated. Of course I was assuming the RPO codes, when printed in the shop manual, were complete but that might not be the case with GM.

 

Any decoder that requires people to manually enter every 3 digit code is subject to typos. 0's and O's, like other similar characters have a habit of being mistyped. Also people tend to transpose characters. Having a list would reduce those problems, but for each year there can be many codes. If they're in alphabetical order that should make it easy enough to select the codes you're after.

Most of the mystery codes for later years have been identified. The ones that are going to be difficult are the pre-87 codes. The earlier cars have codes for everything while the later cars use packages and don't have as many codes for standard equipment.

Perhaps the best way to start would just to get the program up and running. Create a thread for mystery RPO codes, and whenever someone has a code that doesn't come up they can post and we can try to find a definition that fits.

 

That makes sense to me.

 

Here are the 1991 Camaro Service Manual list, and the 1991 Firebird Service Manual list.

Camaro first...




Firebird...




FWIW.

 

Thanks, Drew. I've got 1991 and 1992 Firebird RPO codes in a database so those are done. I'll see if Scott wants to handle the Camaro side, if not, I'll add them.

 

Not to change the subject, but while we're at it can we get the VIN decoder back? There used to be one on here.

 

Here is what the program looks like that I was discussing (will need some cosmetic stuff later):

The main page to select Year and Model:


The page showing all RPO codes in database for selected application:


The results page based on the RPO codes you selected in the previous page:


The old system required you typing in each RPO code you wanted decoded. As Drew mentioned, that introduces typos and errors. Therefore, I think the above method is probably more efficient.

As far as VIN decoder, I'm guessing that was also lost when a HD failure occurred on the old server in the Dirk days.

 

I'm not sure when the VIN decoder disappeared. I know the last time I went to run a VIN number I had to do so on another website, or dig out the books. This is Thirdgen.org, THE website for 82-92 Camaros and Firebirds, a person shouldn't have to go somewhere else to decode a VIN number. Working tools is part of the reason this website used to be so great.

The application in the pics doesn't look too bad. I think it'd be less confusing if it were a list instead of a chart. It'd take up more space, but it'd prevent clicking the wrong check box. With a straight vertical list, you just scroll down until you're there.

 

JT - I like it. The box makes it look basically like the SPID sheet.

I have written a VIN decoder that I think is correct and works:

http://www.pnw3.org/vindecoder/tgovindecoder.php

Please try it out and make sure it decodes everything properly. I found it had a problem with the TTA vins but that has been fixed.

I will be happy to turn the code over.

 

Works for the four vin's I just ran through it. The one suggestion I'd make, is to clarify the wording of the model digit. Just about every decoder out there shows the Firebird Formula definition for model S. The situation occurs with "P Sport Coupe, Z28" or any other model that doesn't have a specific digit. To you and me it's clear that the definition says the car is a Firebird OR Formula, or it's a Sport Coupe OR a Z28. But to the uninitiated it sounds like the 6cyl Firebird I just decoded is a Formula, or the Sport Coupe I just decoded is a Z28.

 

I agree completely! I will fix that.

Changes have been made. I have added the bolded OR between the models. I also put a little more information in the engine selection.

 

I like the setup so far, but is it possible, as it was mentioned prior that it would be very difficult to list all the packaged items, maybe having the text be a link that would bring you to another page, or as you glide the mouse over it, bring up a text box describing what was in the package. This would make our programming a one stop shop to finding everything we ever wanted to know about our cars, and cease a lot of the confusion. This would be after the program is up and running, but just as a working in progress thought.

I have a camaro '88 sales brochure that would cover some of the packaging, and an '88 bird and '92 maro service manual, I'll have to see if either have codes.

 

If I understand you correctly, then with the space taken by listing the RPO codes in the format you suggest, you might as well just list the definitions next to them and not have anymore further steps? As you previously said, and as I see with the View All method I had, there is a lot of RPO codes.

It's laid out like a chart so that it's all within view and to prevent scrolling so you can simply select each RPO code select box to select it. I can add more padding to break it up a bit, if that helps? Otherwise, it's easy to add a "List All RPO Codes" link to that page where the reader can simply skip that step and see all RPO codes and their definition.

 

I'm willing to help wherever I can, but I don't know anything about programming or databasing! I was hoping we'd be able to get the RPOs listed for every year and somebody else could build it.

I like the idea of having the list laid out in the SPID layout, but it does need more padding to make it easier to read.

Option package listings can also be created. Not sure what tool would be best to list the options similar to the way it was done in the brochures, but I agree that we need that documented also.

All, welcome to the new fully documented TGO! It's a work in progress, but we'll get it there.

 

Having notes is something else that is part of the program (but not shown since they're not populated). That's partly why I was concerned that having one big list with definitions and that's it might become too much information as it continues to be expanded and populated with relevant and useful data. I thought having notes to further expand on certain RPOs would be excellent (such as Scott mentioning the different packages) as well as perhaps some small pictures for RPO codes (such as for the different type/style of rims available with the associated RPO code). Having all that information in one area would be great.

Douglas, thanks for the effort/time on VIN decoder. If you want to email me the scripts for use on ThirdGen (with credit), please let me know.

 

JT - I will be happy to. I know the formatting on it sucks, if you have a style you want I'd be happy to apply that before I send it out, but otherwise I can send you the php files. Let me know where you want them sent.

Oh, also, if you want any help with either data entry or coding, I will be happy to help.

 

That change to the VIN decoder makes all the difference in the world. It looks great now with no confusion.

The only problem I have with the grid is that there are a lot of codes in a tight space. A bit more padding would make it easier to work with.

The trick is providing enough information, without adding too much information. It doesn't take much excess before something becomes confusing. Keep it simple. Cryptic definitions could have notes explaining what the definition is talking about. When you start to get into packages, and what they contained, there are a lot of misconceptions and even from year to year, model to model there are mistakes in the printed materials. It's probably better just to define the codes, then try to break down what each package may or may not contain. If someone has a question about the contents of a package, they can always post and ask.

 

Did anyone else notice the 91 Firebird RPO chart above (both the one I scanned from the Service Manual, and the grid screenshot of the RPO decoder) is missing R6P, R6U, VQ5, VX5, ZV1, etc? Those are just the ones I noticed are missing because they're on my invoice.

R6P : PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT GROUP
R6U : CREDIT IN LIEU OF FUEL
VQ5 : FLT-OVERRIDE OF VQ1, VQ2, or VQ3
VX5 : FLT-CASH ALLOWANCE
ZV1 : CERTIFICATE OF ORIGIN - VEHICLE

If anyone is wondering what these mean, the only one I have a more detailed definition of is R6P, which carries the note -
CONSISTS OF:
POWER BRAKES, DISC FRT & RR
ENGINE OIL COOLER
DUAL CONVERTER EXHAUST
PERFORMANCE AXLE RATIO

R6P is basically the Firebird equivalent of G92 for the late Firebirds, as I'm reading it.

 

I have a 1991 Formula with R6P and it has a drum brake rear end.

 

I'll get those added to the 1991 Firebird database.

What I did notice is that if the copy is not clear, it can be difficult to know the exact code and GM does not appear to be consistent. For example, on your 1991 Firebird page, it shows "19I" for Interior Trim in Black. Then, you have "821" for Interior Trim in Dark Medium Gray. If the copy is not great, it could be hard to tell the difference between a 1 and I and it does not appear GM kept any pattern. I would have thought that would have more likely have been "82I" to keep the Interior Trim pattern, like it sometimes does for other cases (color code ending in U).

I checked my 1992 Firebird manual to ensure that I was reading your page correctly. It definately shows "19I" and "821" for Interior Trim. The download RPO program shows both 82I and 821 as valid.

 

That's because of the mid-year shortage of PBR rear disc parts. The 91 Formula (3/91 build date) I stripped last year was a LB9 5spd R6P car, also with the rear drums. It was a mid 91 car. My 91 Formula (5/90 build date) has the R6P package and the PBR rear discs as advertised.


Sorry about that... You can only ask so much from 2001's best flatbed scanner. We've got a newer one but it's an all-in-one unit that doesn't play well with heavy books. If any of them aren't clear, just ask and I'll dig out the book to verify.

Concerning R6P and G92... I don't believe that I've ever seen a 91 Firebird with rpo G92. Compnine shows G92 and 1LE both having 106 units, which suggests to me that the only time G92 appears on a 91 Firebird is if the car is a 1LE.

 

The scans you provided are good. My comment was more aimed toward those "I"s and "1"s being quite similar with no apparent trend to make it obvious. I'm guessing build sheets and window stickers, which we'll need, probably age worse than a page in the shop manual and could make it less distinguishable.

 

I have the 82 Camaro restoration manual .I will take a look in it to see if it lists the RPO codes for the various 82 Camaro models. I also have the 82-85 Camaro parts catalog which lists all GM codes, and the years that they applied. However it is not broken down by car model..

In the mean time, I did post eh build sheet form my car back in 2007 or so. Search under "LU5 Build Sheet with my user name.

 

I can help with the 82-84s, I have made a registry of all the cars I could find sorted by VIN numbers. I've obtained a dozen build sheets from those years as well, and listed all the RPOs.

 

If you need any info on the 85 z28's let me know or by that means any year camaro.

Funny thing I was filling the rear differential oil on the 85 Z today as it has been making a weird noise and I noticed that the stickers to the rear springs were still intact.

I know it is not the RPO codes but I will take pics of the undercarriage as this z28 has not been touched at all. Few rust spots on the exhaust but most tags and stickers still there. Perhaps this is a second thing after the RPO history restoration project is to document factory markings, stickers, tags etc. for future restorations.

 

There was a thread already out there concerned with documenting factory markings. The tags on the springs are almost always still there. I've got about 12 springs out behind the shed that still have legible tags.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-location.html

 

thanks!

 

Scott

If you visit this link you can download all the 1982 - 1992 Camaro Vintage Vehicle Information kits. The each contain a list of the RPO codes for that year's car.

I downloaded the 82 and 88 information kits. As these are 24 meg pdfs each, I will extract the RPO code pages and post them up. I did note one error in the 82 list - It uses MX1 for the automatic transmission, but the correct code is MV9. MX1 was for the manual transmission.

http://gmheritagecenter.com/gm-herit...tion-kits.html

 

Scott has been using the documents that site has and sending me the output to import into the RPO database program. He's already sent us up to 1985 or so and I've populated the database with those results. He's still working on the rest of the Camaro RPOs.

Just saying don't waste your time repeating the work Scott has done since a good percentage of the above is already in the RPO program database as well as a spreadsheet.

 

Here is the 1990 RPO's all of them

I have this in Spreadsheet, so if you want it, I can send it.

Enjoy

Drew,
I looked in my 1987 Service manual and it does not have the RPO codes

John

 

I read through this, excellent idea. Just one thing as I'm sure you all know. The earlier cars if I recall correctly didn't have SPIDs. That I believe started in 84. If the intention is to get all the codes for the third gen run; we will need to find a way to get the codes documented on the cars that don't have the rad support tags and SPIDs. Earlier cars typically seem to missing the tags and don't have the stickers to back it up.

PHS repro stickers and even invoices don't have all the production codes. I've had my whole car stripped to a shell, and I never found anything resembling a build sheet or even a trim sheet. I am sure you guys have thought of that and I know people have them for earlier cars, but the older ones will not be easy other than the common codes like Y82 for Recaro TA. I don't think my 84 manual has RPO codes in it. Has VIN info but not the RPOs. I can double check. If they were at the back...no dice as I missing a few pages and the back cover.

I am game for helping out with this if I can.

 

The GM Heritage packages I've seen have (very low quality) photocopies of the White Book pages. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it'd be easier to just go to the book. Also keep in mind that the White Book isn't always accurate in how they depict certain options. Sometimes the descriptions are worded to fit with other information in the book. When GM definitions are available, they should probably be used over the White Book definitions.

Since the goal is an RPO decoder, 82-83 cars don't really apply since they won't have SPID's. The body tag sometimes contains RPO codes, but generally they're easy enough to decode using the books. The data given by the body tag is so limited that if you decode the VIN and know the colors and model you're not going to learn anything from decoding the tag anyway.

The only other place you're going to find RPO codes on a pre-84 car is the build sheet, where they're listed right next to the definitions. Again, when you've already got the definition, there's no need for a decoder.

 

i have RPOs from the 92 camaro service manual let me know if you guys don't have them yet and ill post the pics.

 

Here's my '89 . . .

 

If anybody wants to help out, that's great. I'm assuming that JT will need these RPOs in a format that he can easily extract the data. An Excel spreadsheet, notepad, or Word style will make it easier to copy/paste the data. John, can you provide the list you have above in spreadsheet?

I have taken the 82-85 Camaro data from anywhere I could get it. Unfortunately, the data I provided is option RPOs and not production RPOs. We need to make each year as complete as possible with known RPOs for that year. I'm referring to engine, transmission, rear axle, spring codes, speedo delete, etc. As we find more and more based on build sheets, we can add it to the base we are creating now. I know that what I provided is lacking, but it's a start.

Thanks Drew for getting the fire burning under me to get this started after all these years.

 

Basically everything that has been posted up until now has been converted. Right now, the help would best be in the form of providing the RPO and descriptions for the missing years.

 

i have a book that touches on every year of the camaro from the mid 70s, had prices and options as well as prices for the options. when i get home i'll check if it has the codes with them.

 

I've got the build sheet from my '82. Would that help this effort?

 

Most definately. We need as many codes as possible and the 82-84 cars don't have SPID sheets. Please provide whatever info you can. Thanks

 

1982 Camaro



my scanner is acting iffy, if i can't scan any certain one can i just type up the options?

 

Which book is this from? We want to ensure the information is as accurate as possible, thus we prefer the information come from GM sources (service manual, factory window sticker, factory build sheets, etc.) if it exists. Otherwise, there could be concerns the RPO decoder is not as accurate as possible.

 

its this book



every American Manufacturer from Firebirds and Camaros to 2006 with the Corvette and the GTO. it gives a description, as well as production numbers, base price, engines, chassis, and options.

but nevermind on each year, they list the codes for 1983, then until 1991 they just list the actual item and price. 92 they show codes again. i didn't check Pontiac.