chazman

iTrader: (4)

The weather here in Chitown has been unbelievably fantastic so far this year. Usually, my 3rd gens are still sleeping this early in the year. But it's been so nice out, I've been driving my '83 Crossfire to work for the past several days. I'm also trying to decide if I want to sell it, so I'm spending more time behind it's wheel during my decision making.

First off, I think all of the money I've invested in the custom exhaust was money well spent. Yeah, if I had it to do over again, maybe I would have waited for a complete N10 system, like I had originally wanted, but whatever. The LU5's L-83 cam has a really nice lope with what I currently have when you're at a stoplight and sounds pretty good with the t-tops off. The functional hood flaps are always entertaining to me when they open and close - I guess I'll never grow up. The CFI may be much maligned, but it does provide good low end torque, even with it's 2.93 gear. It's too bad, GM didn't develop it with an L69 exhaust, manual trans and a 3.42/3.73 gear. It would have been a (relative) rocket.

One thing I noticed, is that on a 3rd gen, you can drive at highway speed with both windows down, without any undue noise, turbulence or most of all, resonance. Try that in a new car and see how many seconds it takes before you roll the windows back up. Plus, you can still rest your arm on the window sill and drive comfortably. You do sit lower than most of the SUV's, crossover's and sedans on the road today. I went through my bank's drive-thru and noticed that my roof was at the same level as the tellers drawer. The teller saw me and said, "hello chazman, didn't see you down there."

3rd gens handle great! You certainly won't have anyone in a modern car on your rear bumper on an on/off ramp if you don't want them there - that is for sure!

If I could change something, I wish I could have a little more power and a little more braking. I find that I have to slightly alter my driving style to compensate for the brakes. And........a T5 would be nice too.

You know, if I didn't have to worry about our winters, I could see myself using this car as a commuter more often. It does suck more gas than a newer car though, with premium at $4.65 per gallon around here, that's something to think about. Too bad I never found the right Iron Duke car to commute in.

Jason E

Glad to hear you're having fun with it! I regret to inform you that effective 4 hours ago, I am no longer a member of the "3 third gens and up" club, and that I know how you feel about keeping it versus selling it.

Whenever I commute in my 86 (I will be driving it to work tomorrow, actually...almost EIGHTY and sunny for the forecast!), I think about how its actually quite comfortable. With the base suspension and no t-tops, it does a good impression of a "modern" car. The visibility cannot be beat, either.

I say keep the car because you have the room! I'm trying to consolidate because my most expensive vehicle, my truck, sits and collects dust outside 5 days a week. Not exactly the recipe for longevity. Assuming I keep the 86, a lift is in my future, I would guess...I only have 4 spots.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I used to commute in my 82 Crossfire TA to school many years ago. The only thing I remember was that it didn't like snow very much. It also doesn't like being driven cold. It has to warm up for a bit or it will foul the plugs. Dinosaur fuel injection I guess.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Congrats! (I guess). I knew that the '88 wouldn't sit long. If I do sell my '83, it'll strictly be to free up more space. I can't help myself, I'm always looking.

Jason E

Yeah, the new owner is a member on here (Alan91Z28). Fantastic guy...drove up from Erie PA area to pick it up this morning. I try to find my cars good homes...my TA will be residing with an 88 SC, a supercharged 6k mile 91 Z28 convertible, and an 85 IROC he just finished swapping a blown LS3 into

I dare say it found a good home. I have an appointment tomorrow to show my 86 to a 70 yr old guy looking for a turnkey fun car to drive...but I'm starting to get cold feet on showing it to him...

At the very least, the 88 has a good home with someone who will love it as much as I did. As I was telling Alan, I have a feeling I'm not done with third gen Firebirds yet, even if I do sell my 86. Assuming I sell that one too, all I need is a $3,000 lift and voila, I have room for a 5th car in the garage after I get caught up on some stuff around the house (I'm also planning on insulating and heating the garage before winter...1,500 SF of heaven )

In which case, I'm thinking Formula 350 or, dare I say, TTA

Jason E

To respond to this, I figured it wouldn't either. My price was a little below what I ultimately could've sold it for on eBay, but then I'd have to pay a fee to eBay, and sometimes nice cars sit there for awhile. I wanted a quick sale to a good buyer...and that's what I got.

When I was driving Drew nuts last Spring, posting a new third gen I found for sale every 5 minutes, this was the ONLY 5 speed I found. That's why I bought it...and why he bought it.

It was a fun car. Truly a fast car, if you can call a 305 fast. I would say it was a hair more fun to drive than the IROC when tooling around town. However, the IROC still rocks with respect to the neck-snapping factor. I drove it last night for about 30 miles, for the first time this season. I did a few 40-70 WOT runs and had a little fun with it. That damn 350 TPI just kicks *** Even with a 2.77!

Every time I drive it, tearing down the highway at 80+, I think to myself "this really is the perfect GT car." From the seats to the visibility to the throttle response...everything about it is perfect on the open road.

cerberus

I had a 81 Anni vette I loved it, never had problems with it

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

If you think a TPI is fast, get yourself a TTA. It is a night and day difference. You sure won't regret that purchase.

scottmoyer

Just think about the 350 with the 3.27 or 3.23 gears!!!

Jason E

I was originally looking at a 60k mile TTA when I found my 88 TA last year. My TA was in better shape, had less than half the miles on it, and was less money. To me, at that point, it was a no-brainer.

Now that I have my SS, space is more limited in the garage. If I sell my 86 as well, what I sell the 2 cars combined for could buy me a VERY nice TTA AND a nice lift...AND have some money left over.

My IROC and SS are permanent keepers...my Z28 has been around for 12 years, isn't going anywhere, and is a 5k mile a year driver. What happens to that fourth spot in the garage? Time will tell...the TA stays there, the truck goes there, or who knows?

Jason E

Don't worry, my friend...I still have the 3.73 L69 10 bolt sitting in the corner of the garage If I do indeed go down to 3 cars, I'm allocating myself some play money...a fresh 3.42 gearset in that rear end, installed in the IROC, is the first thing I'm doing after getting fresh 17" white ZR1s, brakes and tires for the '97...

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Jason - if you do decide to buy a TTA, get one with less then 30K on it. Visit the TTA website, and we'll help you out. Lots of little things to look for when buying those cars.

Jason E

I appreciate the offer...I have no doubt. That's part of the reason I shy away from one. Who around really knows how to work on a 3.8 turbo anymore? The funny thing is, Cotton Performance, who I've been told has an A1 rep in the turbo 3.8 crowd, is 15 minutes from where I live. Never dealt with them, though...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

On the way home last night in my Crossfire, I drove past a guy in an '89-ish, maroon, Trans Am convertible. We gave each other the nod. His car was pretty rough, with rusty 1/4 panels and all - but it looked and sounded so cool to me.

Hmmm. A convertible.

silentkillzr

iTrader: (2)

There are a ton of turbo 3.8 builds, what are you talkin bout

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Wow, Charlie and Jason are back into Third Gen buying mode. Who's not surprised?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Oh no Chris, I'm out of room. I can't seriously consider anything, unless something goes. But yes.....I have been eyeing some convertibles.

There's a local car, a blue '89 IROC convertible, LB9/T5, still with the original owner, I'd love to own.

Jason E

Dude, I'm in selling mode at the moment

My signature keeps getting smaller, and smaller. The 88 is in Erie PA, and I just took a $500 non-refundable deposit on the 86. Its currently sitting in my office window, gleaming in the afternoon sun...

Its relieving to sell it so quickly, but depressing too. I think the remedy is to take the IROC out tonight. I never thought on Monday I would have both TAs sold by today.

For all you that sit here and tell us 3rd gens don't bring real money? I had two nice ones that I didn't ask too much, or too little, for. When you price them right, they sell just fine.

Jason E

I'm eyeing convertibles too, but of the 4th gen variety. A 3rd gen vert is too loose of a chassis for me, I think.

I'm posting my sig only because I wanna see how small its getting

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, they are a little flexy-flyer, (more than a little), but they look so damned good!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Those were 2 really nice cars with low mileage in great shape, priced right.
It's the other cars that need some love that aren't selling too well.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe you sold those cars that fast Jason, but of course, you'll have new ones in no time LOL.

What are you talking about no room Charlie? You want to possibly sell the 83, and if you do, you know what's going to happen. The same thing that's gonna happen in Jason's garage soon.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

IF I sell it, I'll have room. Until then, I'm just window shopping.


I'm so torn on that car. On the one hand, although it's nice, it's not so nice where I'm afraid to drive it, like I am with my '89. Which is a plus. I've also put alot of effort into it and it looks and drives sooo much better than it did when I got it. It's funny how I get attached to cars. I bought in in '08 so I'd have something different to drive to Indy '08, and planned on selling it immediately afterwards. 4 years later, I still own, fiddle with it and enjoy driving it. I've really enjoyed working on it and sorting it's issues has been a point of satisfaction. I've even got a rare blue LS Conteur interior I want to put in it.

On the other hand.... I know if I keep it, I won't be getting anything else either.

navy02ws6

...82 Collector Edition you mean? Or 78 Silver Anniversary?

The '82 Collectors are pretty nice (when they're taken care of anyways). You can open the rear hatch, but just don't assume it will actually close! We usually have 2 or so here at work at any given time.

Jason E

Well, what spurred this was my dad agreeing to sell me his 2000 SS. I've been trying to get it since before I bought the blue TA 2 years ago. Last year, when I bought the red TA, I begged him again to sell it, and he wasn't ready.

By getting rid of 2, I can now put my HD Ram back in the garage, which is important to me. Its a 2005 with 45k, and it sits 5-6 days a week, as I have a demo. That amount of sitting outside isn't good for anything. So, now I have my dream 3rd gen, my dream 4th gen, and my 11 year love affair with my Z28 continues...and because the miles are no longer low, I can drive it care free. Its also proven to be dead reliable, too.

In another year, I will have the opportunity to buy a lift, I hope...at that point, I can buy another. At that point, I have a difficult decision. On the affordable end, I will debate between an '89 Formula 350 and an '89 GTA (I have to have t-tops, and I prefer an L98 to an LB9/M5).

OR...on the more expensive end, a TTA or an LS1 Hawk/WS6 convertible will be the fourth car. Time will tell...for now, me and my IROC will just continue chillin' As for selling them, I was surprised I sold them that fast, too. I knew they wouldn't sit, but to sell them both in less than 3 weeks for my asking prices? It makes me feel I shoulda asked for more

As I told Alan91Z28, though (the guy that purchased the 88), there's an old saying in the car business..."pigs get fat...hogs get slaughtered..." If I asked too much, they woulda rotted online. The sad part is, I have a $500 non-refundable deposit on the 86 while it takes him a week to get his money together.

So for now, it sits in my garage, tormenting me

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I think it's normal to always be looking at the "next" one. Heck I am and I have no room for a 3rd one, heck I never dreamed I'd have 2 nice ones, why am I looking at a 3rd? It's our hobby, we're always looking, and thats OK. Just don't let that urge to conquer cause you to sell stuff you've already got that you like. As an outsider Charlie, I think your '83 rocks and I'd NOT get rid of that in place of a 'vert or another IROC. The '83 is unique, clean, functional and you know what you've got. The '83s shortocomings do not warrant rolling the dice on another car you don't know IMO.

If you woke up in the morning and your '83 had the blue LS interior, T5 swap and a factory appearing 12" C4 vette brake setup on front would you be happy? Would that hit all the targets such that you'd be set on keeping it? Would it make driving it the experience you want? If so, bring it over to South Bend in about 7 months...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Effen A, it would!

I told one of my son's, if Chip Foose takes my '83 for an episode of "Overhaulin' ", you know what to tell him to do.



What happens in 7 months?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

7 months is when hotrods go back into hibernation, thats when you bring the car over and I do the trans and brakes if you want, could do interior as well.

Maybe I just look at things differently, but all the stuff that you'd like to improve on the '83 is so simple to do IMO, that I wouldn't hesistate to do it. The mods we're talking about require very little permanent changes. The brakes are bolt on, the trans is bolt in except for the clutch master hole and the shifter hole. If that would turn the car into a superstar for you, I'd say go for it.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Now you've got me thinking. PM sent.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

Back to Chazman's original post, I took my pace car out for a spin around the block with my daughter last Friday because the weather was too nice, and I wanted to get in one final drive before I start taking it apart. First time I've driven a car with t-tops off in 5 or 6 years.

I had similar thoughts -- it was striking to me that a 30 year old car could drive and handle so well. The car really did drive wonderfully. Unfortunately, my CFI is a little rough so the whole experience wasn't quite smooth. The car runs well enough, but has some stumbling issues and definitely needs some TLC. Same comment on the braking -- my brakes are in good condition, they just don't compare to modern binders.

Best part of the drive was when we go home, my daughter says "That was fun!" I commuted for years in my '84 Z HO. Not sure I could do that today (I remember long trips in my Z killing my back after a while, and I was MUCH younger then!), but maybe the LS seats would make the difference.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

One thing that I find refreshing when I drive a 3rd gen to work, (or anywhere for that matter), is the lack of all the electronic nannies that modern cars have. No traction control, no stability control, no throttle control. etc., to filter out the driving experience. Of course, I'm driving them in nice weather, not an icey rain storm.

Jason E

I agree...I was thinking of that last night when I was driving my IROC. Remember when PW, PL, cruise, A/C and a tape deck was "loaded"?

Without a doubt, all these computers, airbags, crushing curb weights and everything else have diluted the feel of the road. So be it, I guess...I will just keep cruising in my sub-20-mpg, smog belching (in relation to newer cars) death trap on wheels

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, yesterday I was trying to avoid a careless lady who felt that her Lexus SUV should be occuppying the same space as my '83. I punched the throttle from a stop to avoid here and the rear of my car fishtailed for 100 feet. Great fun! I'm so immature, too.......


I'd drive it more if if didn't swill nearly $5 per gallon premium at about 14 MPG in mixed driving.

Motown

You have to put premium in the Crossfire?

Come on over to Detroit...Im about to go fill up with regular for $3.59.

Jason E

I hear ya...I've gotten squirrely in the IROC a couple times recently, as the colder weather allows for some more slip from the G Forces.

Not quite 100 feet of fishtail though...delinquent

When I first got it and it still had the Gatorbacks on it, half throttle would yield these awesome drifts I took them off before I burned through them, as I want to save them for posterity!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Actually, it caught me off guard. I'm sure the cool temps had something t do with that. I'll tell ya, no way could this car have done that when I bought it. My advice to all the Crossfire, (and maybe all the LG4/LO3) guys is, fix all of the usual BS stuff, bump up the timing, add an L69 or better exhaust, and your car will scoot.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

still contemplating the T5 swap?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Considering it very seriously, Jeremy.

tlandoe

I run mine on regular and it runs just fine, just slow (and the hood flaps don't come up with regular in the tank ) but I get about 20mpg with mixed city/highway and a light foot.


About 9 in town hopping stop signs

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

I'll keep that in mind. Right now, my poor CFI does 0-60 in about 12 to 14 sec flat! Of course, it's quicker if I'm going downhill. I've never driven a properly functioning Crossfire so I have no point of reference, but I'm anxious to get mine running properly.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Okay, let me put this in perspective. When I first got my Crossfire, it felt like it was putting out maybe 90 horsepower. It was painfully slow, ran rough, and if you gave it too much throttle too quickly, it would backfire and die.

To make things worse, the pinheads who the the previous owner had rebuild the trans, apparently put the wrong governor in it. Just guessing, but I'm sure it was for the Astrovan in the next bay or something, (which would mean, that somewhere in the Milwaukee area, someone's Astrovan is banging out 5500 rpm shifts ). Combined with the Corvette servo, it delivered violent 1-2 shifts at low RPMs. It wouldn't downshift either. What a mess. I'm surprised I bought it. If I didn't have a wild hair to fiddle with a Crossfire and if it wasn't rust free and an original, unmolested car, I would have walked away.

Anyway, I got ALOTof help on TGO. From figuring out what was wrong with the trans, (local trans shops were worthless, thanks Dana from Probuilt!), to figuring out the Crossfire's black magic - there was always someone here to help.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

OMG -- you've just described my car, except for the backfire and die part...

2 for 2 -- I know the tranny in mine has been rebuilt twice (previous owner) and the torque converter has been changed and guess what -- it shifts like crap and refuses to downshift most of the time.

I'll drink to that. People around here are really helpful. Not sure if I have any good tranny shops around here. If not, Probuilt will get some more 200C business in the future.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I hate trans shops. 3 of them told me I needed a rebuild. I told them that the trans had less than a couple thousand miles on it. They weren't sympathetic.

I gave Dana my detailed symptoms, and he came back unequivocally. "It's your governor". I installed a Corvette governor and everything shifted perfectly ever since.

tlandoe

what is the stock Crossfire Z 0-60 anyway? When I look up the 1983 z28 0-60 time it doesn't say if it's an l69, an lg4 or an lu5

Jason E

82 models, which were rated for 10hp less (165 vs. 175) ranged from a low of 7.9 seconds with Car and Driver to a high of 9.2 with Motor Trend.

Back then, it was not uncommon to see a wider variance between magazines than we do today. Likely, it was because production variances were wider back then than they are now...

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

It's also possible that GM slid them a ringer for their magazine test.

eseibel67

0-60 times will vary between 2 identically configured cars slightly, but not by 1.3 seconds. Differences that large will be due to testing procedure.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Some of the tested CFIs had a 2.93 gear. I distinctly remember C&D retesting with a 3.23 and using that time. Also, there were no tests which I can remember of the '83 CFI, which got the lower 1st gear of the 700R4 vs the '82 TH200.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

What accounted for the 10 HP difference between 82 and 83?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Nothing that I'm aware of.