jac113

iTrader: (4)

Hey Thirdgen,
I got this little dilemma and I want to take a poll. I've been on the lookout for another thirdgen to compliment my '92 B4C 5.0/5Spd for my wife. She really doesn't like the cars but goes along for it since I have a passion for them. I want to get a 92 z28 that's white, 5.7L, auto, t tops, rear disc car(yeah i know pretty loaded) but not much luck for the budget i'm working with.

I did find an '89 iroc with the 5.7L and a T56. Price is within reach but not so to where I can have my cake and eat it too. I would have to part with the B4C to get it and am only considering it b/c the guys says he has about 8K in it. It's plain on outside but the engine is built. It too is white, t tops, rear disc etc.

The question is how does the '89 Iroc Z compare to the '92 B4C in terms of heritage, resale value, historical significance, etc. I don't want the Z b/c its faster and don't want to take a loss either.

My b4c is a piece of work, i'm slowly getting in right with plans for a resto and ultimately an LS1/T56 swap for a more modern, economical driver.

So guys and gals, what do you think B4C or Iroc Z, both very nice cars and generally i'm not seeing anything that'll tip the scale either way.

let the polling begin....thanks!

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

B4c has less production numbers then the Iroc so more value in the long run

scottmoyer

Neither car maintains the original options that would make one better than the other. You are taking a B4C and swapping the engine/trans. Granted, there was nothing special about the engine/trans combo of the B4C, but you could do that swap in a regular RS and nobody would know. A B4C is best left alone for it to maintain "value".

The IROC-Z has $8k into it? From what? All engine? The 350 never came with the T56, so that's something to think about. If you're wondering about value, neither one will be valuable because they have been changed from original. You can go with either one and should be equally enjoyable.

DethVenture

If I'm thinking correctly the B4C's were the police package? If so, the B4C is what I would keep. Those are actually really rare, because only 589 '92 B4Cs were ever made. IROC-Z's are much more easily found.

If you were to trade your '92 B4C for an '89 IROC-Z, they made 589 '92 B4C's and they made 20,067 '89 IROCs. Historical significance most definitely lies with the B4C. Resale value would be real high later on because these will be rare collectors cars. The heritage is pretty cool too, because I think the B4C's were the first special service Packages officially made by GM for police departments.

scottmoyer

The B4C loses it's value when he changes the engine/trans combo. It's just an RS that's been modded at that point. That's why I said either car will do for him what he's wants to do. Neither of these cars can be looked at for value as there won't be any when the originality is changed.

DethVenture

Good point. Didn't know the engine/trans combo was changed.

Although it seems there would be SOME special value in it being that it, at one time, that it WAS an original B4C.

jac113

iTrader: (4)

good points made by all and thanks for the quick replies. I understand the significance of an all original car and really like the sleeper look of the b4c, though with today's technology and engine swaps my b4c wouldn't get the same respect on the street as it did 15-20 years ago so the sleeper term isn't as relevant anymore.

I know that the t56 wasn't original then and is very necessary when mated to anything over 300 '/lbs of torque. My drivetrain swap plans are b/c I want the sleeper look back as well as the ecomony/comfort of smooth power.
My commute is 16 miles per day and mostly highway so the extra gear would help out. Not much a b4c at that point i know but would still keep the presumable matching #'s drivetrain in case I wanted to part with it and maximize my return.

thanks,
Joe

KMK454

Is your B4C originally an LB9 T5 car? And is it a 92, meaning it has 1LE? If so, your car would be much, much more valuable in its factory original condition than in LSx/T56 configuration. And if it's a rarer color (ie - not black or white) then that only helps. Do you have the RPO codes? Any pics?

jac113

iTrader: (4)

KMK454,
Yes its an original '92 B4C/1LE. I believe all '90's B4C's were 1LE's but not all 1LE's were B4C's. I know the only camaro more rare than the B4C was the 1LE, at least for '92.

Anyway, can't post pics now but as far as I can tell it's original with the assumed matching drivetrain(WC 5 spd), PBR(or 1LE) brakes, z28 suspension, dual cats, oil cooler, 3.42 limited slip rear, 5.5K tach and 145 speedo and the baffled fuel tank(unverified).

I need to get the original alum driveshaft but am currently working towards a suspension overall. Original color is white, evidence in engine bay, but someone sprayed it dark green.

Don't mean to sound like a *****(really I dont) and i fully respect originality but i'd much rather prefer a more economical lsx/t56. Also I wouldn't be thrashing the car b/c i'll keep the original block/trans. This car will be my only car for a while so i'd want to get it to where I can hop in and drive 200 miles without any problems or burning a tank of gas.

Anyway, resto plan are underway: suspension-->body/paint(white)-->drive train.

I guess if I don't do an LS?, i'll for sure do a vortec head/intake to gain some power w/o sacrificing originality, at least to the untrained eye. As far as I know, i've got the only B4C in the area.

thanks

jac113

iTrader: (4)

dbl post, comp playing tricks on me...

KMK454

All 92 B4Cs were 1LE. Half of the 91 B4Cs were 1LE. My B4C is not a 1LE. All this meant was no big brakes out front. A B4C 1LE or non-1LE with a 5-speed is hard to come by. It's your car and you have every right to do what you want and enjoy it, but if you keep the original drivetrain and running gear it might pay off in the future.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

If you aren't going to respect it for what it is, then sell it to someone who will instead of molesting it for a drivetrain that belongs in my 150k mile RS.

jac113

iTrader: (4)

Respect huh? And that's coming from a guy who spends more windshield time in a Ford?

J/k Puma. Ive seen you all over this site and have respect for ya. Anyway I have decided to keep my B. Its going to go in the garage soon and come out with a fresh undercarriage. It'll be better than oem parts and 1" lower.
later it will run with an ls?/t56 until my '64 impala ss is ready for it. The lb9 will go back in after its rebuilt with vortec heads and intake.
Rest assured that I wont part with the car unless wrecked. Stolen(God forbid), or sold to someone on this site or some guy in town who ive almost sold it too 3 mos ago b/c hes the only guy ive found that has a bigger passion for 3gens than I do.

Thx for the feedback all

davidj3594

Btw the z28 u want doesn't exist.no t tops and cc1 after 89.l98 with cc1 was only available from 87 to 89.there are some Pontiacs from 90 to 92 that are 5.7 with t tops. Unless u get a car with aftermarket tops 87 till 89 is the closest your going to come to one.you could always buy a 92 roller and do a nce swap to get t tops a 350 (or ?).an lt1 is only 200 at a scrap yard and would make a killer combo in an 92 roller(can be had for cheap)

davidj3594

Sorry for the double post.
It sounds a little dumb(sorry) to swap from sbc to ls and back since you're going to be either removing the entire harness or at least hacking at it.what happens to most of these cars after an engine swap then another engine swap is that they just end up turning into an electical mess.those that aren't scrapped are rigged with switches scattered about inside since nothing works right and a carb just to get it to run.Plus it's no longer an original car.just another modified rs.

jac113

iTrader: (4)

Darn. Didn't know that. I figure one 3gen is enough. The pair would of been nice but I wouldn't drive it enough to appreciate it. Ive only put 2k on what I have now in 18 mos.

jac113

iTrader: (4)

You make a good point Dave....I was just looking over another thread where someone did the same swap and saw a pic of the electrical mess you speak of. I'm way more mechanically inclined and electrically declined(just not much experience in reading wiring diagrams and such).

Anyway, I do appreciate all the feedback. I'll be doing more research on it while I work on the susp. rebuild and body/paint. If anything, it'll be later when ls's are cheaper or perhaps I find a vortec tpi intake to preserve the TPI and gain some hp/tq.

btw, a b4c isn't a b4c b/c only b/c it has rs badges and an lb9. It's b/c its an rs, with z28 drive train, 1le brakes, etc. The LS engine would definitely kill the originality but it's still far from a modified RS.

90interceptor

i have an iroc b4c

scottmoyer

Ok, you must explain. The B4C option became available in 1991, not 1990. What do you have that has you believing differently? Especially since all 1990 IROC-Zs were built in 1989, that predates the B4C coding.

90interceptor

my brother gave me his car after i was in an accident and ddnt have a vehicle. always loved camero's so started looking things up and nothing matched my car.typed in the vin and got the info. a few months later locked my keys in the car and had to go to a dealership to get a key. had to go home and get my title to prove it was mine and the guy told me i had a special car. i asked what he meant, he started asking me questions. he said yup your car isnt like others of the same yr. most dont have the brakes , aluminum shaft, air, like mine has. then he turned his computer screen to show me that it was listed as a factory police interceptor. said the car was originally a black and white with blue trim and ground effects. i told him its all blue now.dude told me not to sell it. i ddnt know it meant anything special at the time other than cool it was owned by a cop.

scottmoyer

Well, let's get you started on the right track. The car is a Camaro, not a camero. There are many here that will go off on this, so be sure to reference the car correctly or you might get scorned.

Secondly, the car is not rare in the sense that you have a 1990 B4C. The reason it's not rare is because it isn't a B4C. There are a few things that could be at play here. You could have a 1991 Camaro that is a B4C and someone put IROC-Z stickers on it or the car is a 1990 IROC-Z and you were misled to believe that it's something that it isn't. I can guarantee you that the car is not an factory anomaly. The car might have been used by the police at one time, but there wasn't an RPO code to denote that in 1990. Many Camaros and Firebirds came with the aluminum driveshaft and AC. What brakes do you have that make them different. The model year is designated by the 10th digit of the VIN. For the IROC-Z years, the VIN code is below.
1985 - F
1986 - G
1987 - H
1988 - J
1989 - K
1990 - L

Please provide a picture of your SPID label which should be in the center console. We can decode this and tell you what you have. Most dealers have no clue if an uber rare care pulled in to their lot. They aren't enthusiasts for the most part.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I like modified and stock 3rdgens. With the B4C option, you have got to keep that car stock. What makes package that special is what others have said before.

Its a 3rd gen edition of a sleaper Camaro from the factory. Plain jane 1991-1992 Camaro RS exterior with all the go fast factory speed parts. On top of that you have the 1LE package so you got the upgraded brakes as well.

The 1991-1992 models with the B4C & 1LE options like you car has came equipped with the best of the best combination of factory speed parts.


· MK6 T-5 manual trans (0.73 5th gear ratio) - not the T-5 with the 0.63 5th gear ratio that the L03 and not G92 option LB9 motorscame with. 1st-4th gears werethe same.

· N10 dual cat option

· 1LE brake package

· baffled fuel tank

· stiffer bushings in the rear control arms

· LB9 with the L98 cam

· 10 bolt posi-traction rear end with 3.42 gears, L98 cars got 3.23 gears

· PBR 11'' caliper disk brake rear

· Aluminum driveshaft

· Air conditioning


3rd gen 1LE cars didn't come with air conditioning as an option. That was a prerequisite for the 1LE package - option level 1 car and no air coniditioning triggered the 1LE package. The only way to get air conditioning paired with the 1LE package in a 3rd gen was to order a B4C option car.

Are there cars with more performance available today - yes.

The B4C cars have to be left stock to keep their value. Once that changes, the other members are right. Your car would turn into another run of the mill RS camaro that has an LS swap.

Nothing wrong with that. It's a proven performance swap so you won't get an argument from me on that point.

The problem is that it kind of ruins the point of what made the B4C standout in the first place.

If you want do an LS swap and go crazy with mods, pick the IROC. Although it must be stated that it to would be worth more in 100% factory fresh stock form but, a 1989 IROC is not rare compared to the B4C optioned cars.

Depends on what you want to get your car for and what you intend on doing with it. It's your car and your money so you can do with it what you want.

scottmoyer

Yaj, you responded to a year old thread. I am responding only to the last few posts.

90interceptor

okay ill explain myself a little better forgive any typo's im a bricklayer not much of a typist. when i got the car i checked the vin and got some info and after inspection of the car it has 350 tpi, is an iroc, has factory air, has front and rear dual cal brakes, aluminum driveshaft factory posi but was told the gears were changed, came with factory 16 zr 245 tires and is lowered through no actually visible means. dont know much about the wonder bar or the beam connecting the tranny to the rear end but i think the one on the tranny is factory but dont know if its part of whatever package. i know the the last 3 owners and the one who brought it to ohio told me something about it being rare and actully knew way more than i do but i dont see him too often he works alot. but what i know is what ive seen and been told. and it is what it is. if it isnt someone went to alot of trouble to fake it when better parts are actually available. ill check the vin tomorrow. as for the console that got broke one day when my brother had it yrs ago. we replaced it and ddnt keep the old one .remember it having a sticker in there but ddnt seem important at the time. the guy at the dealership had to research the car to get me a factory key # to make me one. he showed me the screen from the gm site showing it was listed as police and told me what color the trim was. told him yes the trim was blue and the car has been repainted before. im not saying i got the mona lisa. but , everything ive seen so far has come up as thats what it is.this site is actually the only place ive heard anything about it not exsisting. im not actually surprised though just seeing the rare cars i have seen and what my relatives own and have owned. this is actually nothing.

scottmoyer

Ok, that makes sense. The IROC-Z by design sits lower than a Z28, so that answers that. Everything else you mentioned sounds like a well optioned IROC-Z. All IROC-Zs got the wonder bar. That bar stabilizes the front steering and connects the left side to the front. Only IROC-Zs got these. It was not available on the Z28 before or after the IROC-Z run. What does make your car rare is the fact that it's a 1990. All 1990 cars were built prior to December 31, 1989 when the license contract for IROC ended. The 1991 model year started in the spring of 1990, instead of the fall.

The rear gears that were mentioned are probably tied to the G92 performance axle code. With that, you get 3.23 gears instead of the standard 2.73 gears. You also get 4 wheel disc brakes and a few other mandatory features. Not all 350 cars come with the G92 code so take that and tie it to the short 1990 model year run, 1st year for the airbag/dash setup, yellow instrumentation, etc and you do have a rare car. The torsion bar is also standard on all IROC-Zs. That is the bar connecting the tranny to the rear that you mentioned. Sounds like a desirable setup. Any post 1987 350 needs to have the G92 code to be the "top dog."

You can go to compnine.com and enter your VIN number to get a listing of the RPO codes your car came with since you don't have the sticker. Let us know what you find on compnine.com and we'll answer any questions.