chazman

iTrader: (4)

For me, beyond the obvious of being rust free and generally mechanically sound, it's originality. Original paint is a big plus for me, even if that means it's faded or has patina. With that said, sometimes it's hard to find a 35 year old car without at least some touch ups.

I love 3rd gens, but I'm not the guy who will spend 25 or 30 grand or more on one either. I paid a bit more for my then 7200 mile 1989, 5 speed, LB9, IROC, 'vert a few years ago than I did for my '89 black IROC, brand new. Finding nice, original, solid cars at an affordable price point is starting to take some effort.

I have bought and sold a few, but I don't look at them as investments. But I do like to find them with enough meat on the bone where I can find one, fix it up, enjoy it for a bit and pass it on to the next guy without hurting myself.

How about you guys?

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Hard top, and rust are my first, then interior color and condition. I can't leave anything stock, so the engine and transmission don't really matter to me, stock sucked

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

Fewer owners the better. Most important thing.
Not more than 120,000 miles.
No accidents
No modifications (tinkering)

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I've always been a hardtop fan, but ironically out of all the 3rd gens I've owned, only the one one I ordered new was a hardtop.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Agree with that!

IROCIN

I wasn't looking for a show car, just one to fix-up to daily driver condition. Priority was:

A. Sound frame (minimal rust) /motor/transmission
B. Fully stock
C. Color
D. Owners, the fewer the better. Mine had 3 prior to me, with the last owner having had it 15 years.
I generally like to speak with the owner, even on things other than the car, politics, sports...whatever.... I think you can get a feel for how someone probably took care of the car based on a decent conversation.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

1. NO RUST 2. No major mods. 3 Functioning A/C and Heat 4.Nothing a young person had. 5 Something attractive to me. Id rather buy a TBI or LG4 that hasn't messed with and fix it to my liking than buy a higher optioned car some worm has messed with. Finding a stock or stockish car is key.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yup, as Jay Leno says: "This is my favorite kind of car. Original and unrestored.". It's a drag undoing things previous owners did to a car.

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

Rust is always the big one. Not trying to poke the bear but im very **** about a car having a trap door. If it has it I wont buy it. My 87 had one with a stop sign covering it. made no sense cause the tank had a brand new sending unit in it that was uncut. The PO was unaware it had it since he had paperwork of the maintenance done. My fault for taking his word and not checking that time. Another big one is molested wiring. Specifically fan wiring. Ive seen too many hacks.

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

+1 on the no mods (maybe wheels as that's easy to undo). I looked at soooo many that had all the emissions stuff, ripped out, A/C parts ripped out, stereo gone but huge wires where sub boxes used to be, holes drilled in the dash for switches, cheap crappy steering wheels. Nearly every car I looked at along the way made me bump my purchase price plan to get away from the rode hard cars.

I am particular on colour combo. I wouldn't likely buy a mint car that was green unless it was to flip, just don't want that colour. As noted, original paint is desirable - but a quality repaint might be ok if it was done right - including the painting the headlight buckets!!

jczoka

Originality is important to me. I can fix things that are broken, but hacked up cars are frustrating, Especially wiring. Interiors are where you'll have the hardest time finding parts, and they are expensive if not impossible to get. NOS stuff is almost all gone, and forget junkyards. You could easily spend more money on interior than almost anywhere else. I mean, I could find a complete TPI 305 for what it costs for a repro dash pad and carpet. So the more complete and nice the better.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I think people really underestimate how much an interior can cost to restore. Dashpads, steering wheels, seat covers, correct switches, etc. And as you said, NOS stuff is almost gone and repro stuff can usually be spotted from a mile away as incorrect.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

1) Original stock car that wasn’t hacked, raced, etc

2) 60k/70k Miles or less... mostly because the car was driven, but sparingly and probably not in the winter.

3) No rust and a clean underside. The undercoated cars don’t bother me. I want the floors to be rust free but also the control arms, and suspension parts that are original to be very clean. Shows the car was not a daily driver.

4) Paint either has to be extremely nice original paint or if a restoration, who did it and how meticulously was it done? I’d personally rather have a brand new showcar $10k paint job if it’s done to look factory brand new. I was a professional Detailer through highschool-college and still do some work for people.. I really enjoy flawless paint. I’ll also take a discount to not have to pay for original paint.. At the same time I wouldn’t buy a car with a quickly/budget paint job with orange peel, claybar residue, overspray, etc.. Also I’ve seen cars with original paint except for the front bumper/spoiler being redone and the paint has a different texture and doesn’t match... IMO that car would need a complete repaint because it would drive me nuts...

5) Carfax has to check out.. any mileage discrepancies that might show rollover or any accidents, flood, etc is a no-go.. Too many owners and being registered in lots of different states too would be a turn off..

6) Wheels. I want the original wheels in good condition with no curb rash... A little clearcoat imperfections and slap on wheel weights are to be expected but I’m not super psyched about that stuff..

7) Interior.. I really want the stock original interior that I remember with the correct steering wheel and no rips in the seats.. Dirty seats and carpets I can deal with to an extent but hopefully there’s no seat foam showing.. I like the dash pad and plastics to be in good shape... I’ll let a couple trim pieces be worn or cracked, but it took me over a year just to find a used power seat bezel to replace my cracked one... Interior stuff is hard to find... Not really interested in 4th gen swapped seats or racing seats.. redone seats are fine if done to look stock like the work Lethal does..

8). I want all buttons to work and all accessories to work... Power windows, tonneau release, HVAC, radio, antenna, power seat, etc... If one little thing needs to be fixed, that’s fine, but 3,4,5 things that need to be addressed can really bog you down..

9) I don’t want a museum car with 100 miles that has never been registered... Sorry, not impressed.. I want to drive it, that’s the point.. And I would have a hard time trusting a car like that if I wanted to drive it..

10) Color... Its a classic car and I want a color that pops and has depth... I prefer the metallic finishes or black if it’s pristine.. If a car has the right combo of goodies I’ll make an exception though..

11) I prefer manual transmission, but if a car has a lot of my other preferences checked off it’s not a deal breaker..

12) I’m warming up to the LS swap cars and like Arnold’s black one a lot. I could see myself buying a car like that down the road in addition to owning a bone stock one. I love how a stock TPI looks though..

13) My first choice was convertible because I always liked how they looked and it’s nice to have a special fair weather car.. I’d like a hardtop next, but T-Top is fine too.. T-Top cars can get kinda ratty looking around the drip edges and in the cross bar underneath the glass... I’ve seen even low mile cars with rusty spots and messy looking seals with the tops off...

14) I tend to prefer the IROCs because of the styling and the way the car stares you down.. I do like GTAs as well..

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The problem with repaints on our cars is, very few do it properly like you did. There's an IROC that was for sale on FB. It was sweet and stock, but the owner felt the clearcoat was faded so he had it repainted. The door moldings were removed, probably damaged and disposed of, the decals were applied in the wrong place, etc. It a shame really, because the owner thought he was adding value to the car, when in reality, he took it from a car I'd be interested in to a car which looks like a disaster and he spent several thousand dollars doing it.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

The more detailed a list you have, the more you know the right car when it comes your way..

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I also see people with an 88 put the decals in the 85-87 location and get the Z28 emblems instead of saving or getting correct “IROC-Z” emblems... no door moldings... It’s a shame they don’t take the time to
do it right or they decide to “improve” on what was factory correct... Many don’t put the “Tuned Port Injection” decals back on the rockers because they don’t come with the stripe kit, you have to order those separately.. All the repro decals/emblems with the wrong font kill me..

I do have a repro “TPI” emblem out back because my original has a crack in the middle.. Still looking for an NOS in red.. Luckily I was able to save the original IROC emblems...

I gave my painter a 10 page document with pictures on my expectations.. luckily he is obsessive too and remembers these cars well and all the little quirks you have to do to get it right.. Most people are like, “yeah, close enough...”

navy02ws6

Correct original seats in good condition, original fuel delivery system type, paint condition, clear title, no rust, straight body with good gaps, high options, and no mods (unless they're extremely tasteful, or easy to put back to stock).

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I agree with almost all the replies on here. Originality is key for me, followed by condition. It had to be all there, and nothing butchered up. I prefer original paint, but a repaint doesn't bother me as long as it's a professional job, and the car was disassembled to do it, and all decals etc are where they should be. I also hate nothing more than the wrong font on IROC-Z decals. Decals in the wrong spot and or wrong font will turn me away immediately. I look at it like this.....if they dont even care about something so easy to do right, then the major stuff hasn't been treated any better.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

originality is everything .. if its been repainted i have no interest in the car .. there are way to many nice original third gens out there .. hard top is a bonus and it must be a tpi car preferable a non peanut cam one ..

KMK454

The most car for dollar sweet spot seems to be $8k-$15k. These are typically 95-100% of the car I'm looking for. Yes, you can get a thirdgen in the $1k-$5k range all day, but getting it to the same condition as the $8k-$15k will cost far more than had you just bought the more expensive car... if it's even possible, which it may not be due to parts availability. I'd rather slightly overpay for the perfect car than get a deal on a car that needs work - especially paint or body work. Note that I'm excluding those great deals that can still be found. Every so often, an $8k-$15k gets stolen for far less, but it's getting harder to find them.

My preferences: ready to drive, clean, original, low mile, hardtop, V8, manual cars with an "it" factor that makes the car somehow interesting. The right "it" factor could make me overlook some criteria, too - for example, a Player's Challenge Car that has awesome race history, but is not clean due to a life of documented competition. Or, a mint 82-84 automatic with enough miles that you could get away with a T5 swap and not kill the value from originality. Or, a car modified almost exactly how I'd have done it.

The "it" factor is hard to explain. Some cars have it and some don't, stock or modified - you know it when you see it.

I do have instant reject criteria. To me, these are indicators of a car that was not properly cared for OR they're things I'll never want on a thirdgen:

• Trap door
• Aftermarket hood
• 4th gen interior swap
• Automatic transmissions in cars I'd feel bad about swapping (ie - a low mile, high dollar L98 survivor)
• Aftermarket wheels with bad fitments (wrong offsets, 19"+ diameter, beat and banged fenders, low quality, etc.)
• Mismatched OEM body kit bits (ie: 92 high rise Z28 spoiler on an IROC, regardless of how clean it is done)
• Incomplete projects, or a car that's all there but is in a thousand pieces in the garage
• Verts (nothing wrong with them, I'm just not a thirdgen vert person)

T.L.

Hardtop, Rust, Frame Damage, How Much Molested...

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Sometimes you think you get a deal, then 6-8k later when you get it about where you want it you realize you should have paid for a nicer, low mileage, higher optioned car in the first damn place. Ask me how I know!

jharrison5

Good body and no rust is top on my list, and then it's the little details like what's the condition of most commonly broke or missing parts? Good dash, console lid, driver's seat, hatch motor, RPO code list, flashlight for the overhead console, etc.

RKeats

Especially living in Canada, the first thing I look for is rust. Second is paint as I don't know how to paint, and I can't afford to spend 10k on a paint job in HOPES that it would meet my expectations. Third is original motor. I don't care what the car is, or what motor is in it, if it's swapped then I'm passing.

As for the kind of car, well first I look for gold rims and some GTA badges Then ttops, any interior other than grey cloth, and otherwise that's about as deep as my criteria goes. Even still, I bought my hard top IROC and love it, but I would always prefer ttops.

Also if it's a Z28 and the headlight buckets are colour matched, I'm going home thirdgenless. One of my biggest peeves.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Definitely rust and originality. I would rather purchase a low mile car that still retains all the stock components under the hood and under the car then one that has been 'upgraded'. If it has the original suspension components and even the plug wires that's a plus for me, even if I am going to change it down the line. Performance upgrades mean the car may have been driven hard and twisted and fatigued. I also want a car that is without any major accidents and paint work.

skinny z

That about sums up my list. Add to that would be a lot of what's been mentioned. A hardtop would be nice. A clear title and no collision damage either. But the rest...originality, paint, interior, none of that makes much of difference to me because depending on the price point of course, most of that gets tossed. Year, model, options...I can't say I have a preference (although I've become kind of partial to the Sport Coupes). Engine, transmission and rear axle would all be my own spec. Maybe if it came with some nice minty IROC rims, that would be a bonus because even while modified, I still prefer the stock appearance.

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

This is so true.

Neil350

iTrader: (1)

Over the years there's the typical stuff I know to expect on vehicle this old. weather seals and cracked spoilers are not deal breakers.

1. Body- Free of rust and not needing a repaint. I've repainted my 4th gen I know what it costs, and honestly it's not cost effective. So rust, bad paint, cheap/bad paint jobs, appearance modifications that detract from factory aren't easily reversible. All make me walk.

2. Modifications, basic bolt ons is fine, past that it depends on how clean it is. I don't want to see rats nests of wiring, I am o.k with replacing worn out factory parts if GM was the last one there. I don't want to waste time fixing hack jobs.

3. Mileage, so the thing is most these cars age has taken it's toll, so really a low mile car and a high mile car tend to need the same things. It either rotted from sitting or worn out from being driven, end result is the same. But the top two qualifiers are easier to find in lower mile cars.

4. Cost spread, these cars have gone up in value, but there is a price spread as mentioned before. I would rather pay more for the car that's low mile and needs less, than try and save a few grand on a high mile car that needs everything. By the time you get it there, you spent more had you started with a low mile car. I bought my 89 GTA for $6500, 48K mile car knowing it needed $4K in work, needed a spoiler, interior (seat covers/steering wheel/Carpet) and other age related items, suspension, weather stripping, etc. The cars for $3K, needed full paint jobs, interior, suspension, etc. Even with the money in, I can still recoup because it's a low mile car. But because I like the car I ended going above that because I want to keep it so to me nicer parts was o.k, Konis, UMI suspension componets, Hawks 17" wheels, etc


Very true, you have to reset certain standards in that the paint wasn't great from the factory, so most have had some paint work in there life. Plus over three decades, things happen. So, I think collision evidence so long as repaired correctly and not massive, minor stuff, is par for the course.

okfoz

1) Rust, Unfortunately finding a quality car with new looking original paint for any kind of reasonable deal is impossible any more...
2) Smell of the interior

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I was really happy taking my mom for a ride in my vert when she said, “It smells the same as your old one!” Which I was surprised she’d remember after no having that car for 17 years.. I’m happy this car has that plasticky GM smell I remembered...

Is that what you are talking about? Please elaborate! That’s a new one

Rust seems to be the number one concern... These cars would get rust bubbles if daily driven, even if they were waxed regularly and garaged...

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

If it's a special car such as a GTA or Formula, I attempt to verify all of this first before I go further. As far as the car is concerned, the first thing I do, is tell the owner what I'm about to do, then pull the back seats down, pull the carpet up just a bit in the center, reach my hand up under the carpet and feel on top for anything I don't like above the gas tank. If that checks out as stock, I move on. If not, I walk away immediately. Sorry, but a person who cuts a hole and slices through stock fuel lines is not someone I will buy a car from. Doesn't matter how nice the car appears. It's a deal breaker for me. The only way I would ever buy one with a cut floor is if it were a Firehawk or TTA and then I would painstakingly put it back to original as humanly possible. The seller will be knocking off $5,000 for that mistake though and hopefully learns a lesson in the process. At any rate, I'm also looking at the interior condition all over as I'm getting in and out to check the tank area. Then I get down on the ground on my hands and knees and study the floor pans and undercarriage for signs of leaks, structural damage, severe rust or rust holes around the whole bottom perimeter. Next, I pop the hood and look for any missing items, signs of wires or hoses out of place, anything that I notice that doesn't appear factory (to my knowledge) and any severe rust around the engine bay. Then, I look at the tires and wheels, paint and glass last. Finally after all of that, I start it up and take note of how it starts. With the hood still raised, I study and listen to the engine allowing it to reach operating temperature in the process, then check the gauges. I shift through the gears, listening to each one and studying how the transmission reacts. I move the car backward and forward a few feet and test the brakes. If I'm satisfied to this point, I take it for a test drive for at least 30-40 minutes in stop and go traffic and 70-80mph on the by-pass.

If I'm test driving, it means that there are no issues that would prevent me from buying it at this point. If the test drive goes well and the price is agreeable, I buy it on the spot. I always have the cash with me or at least a nice deposit just in case.

Eric.86sc

Frame damage and rust for a keeper car. Most other issues can be addressed relatively easy for me

Streetstuff

Check the corners and crevices. Body rust is usually noticeable, but the strut towers and every spot with seam sealer are potential rust points. Stripping my car down it's ridiculous how many rust and/or holes I found under "sealer". On my car I noticed that if that sealer crap has a crack in it, there's a 90% chance it has significant rust under it.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

wonder what the answers would of been if the question was " what do you look for if you were in the market for a 20k third gen "

T.L.

I think a trap door makes a lot of sense IF it's done the right way and not some hack job...

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I do think budget makes a difference.. Maybe a whole separate thread...

If your budget is $20k what are you looking for in a Thirdgen?

The big ones like rust, accidents, hacked up aftermarket bolt ons, weird interior mods, etc will be consistent..

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

To answer my vision on the over $20k cars....
For me, I have seen so so many of them over the years that I have really honed in on what appeals to me. I know i'm picky, but having many other thirdgens that were not great cars for numerous reasons led me to this path when I look:
Originality - Unrestored survivors... must have original paint, floor mats, and preferably gatorback tires should still come with the car even if dismounted. All paperwork including window sticker and invoice. I absolutely dislike repro window stickers and can generally spot them a mile away.
Miles - I like them to be over 1k miles, under 10k miles so they can be used for car shows and cruise nights and not just for static eye candy... but low enough mileage so they are still fresh
Condition - No aftermarket undercoating, fresh undercarriage with no flash rust on the exposed parts, no corrosion on aluminum parts under the hood
Performance - to me it has to either be a TPI 305/stick or 350 car and must be G92.
Like Kurt said, I like an "it" factor.... neat options or color combo that appeal to me. Yellow or orange IROCs, teal Z28s, russet GTA's, manual transmission GTAs, factory CD players or radio deletes, leather interiors, etc. Just a personal preference.
It also has to drive nice. There is a big difference in the way the 92 cars drive with the glued bodies. I think the 92 cars are undervalued. They drive so much quieter and rattle free, I think they are the ones to get

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

you hit it right on the head .. originality and low mileage is king at 20k .. also the 5.7 or 5.0 5 speed is a must ..

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

No one can argue those standards, but cars like that are well over $20k these days..