Hey guys,

Not entirely sure if this is right place for this question but I felt that the electronics area would be even more off-base for this question.

I'm looking to buy a rebuilt hatch motor assembly but can't seem to find one that's exactly like mine.

I don't have pictures due to it raining but if you were to stand behind the car and look down on the assembly the motor is mounted on the left hand side, power release unit is missing so the only way to open the hatch with the key, and the relay is pretty far from the entire assembly (8-10in) hooked in-line and attached to the body.

The connector going to the assembly is 5 wire as well which I haven't found any reference to anywhere.

I was looking to buy this assembly: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camaro-Fireb...-/141178893698

Any feedback on whether this would work for my '91 Z28 coupe would be great.

Thanks

 

Lon, at TDS, is the expert. His site will probably have what you need.

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/

JamesC

 

As long as the mounting bracket of your existing unit that bolts to the car is metal just like the one you linked to, it will work.

If your mounting bracket is a composite material and not metal, you need to find one that is composite. The mounting holes do not line up between the two types.

 

Which cars have composite mounting brackets? Never seen that.

 

I don't have exact details(I haven't cared enough to research), but it seems to be a change that happened sometime in 1991.
My friend's '91 Camaro has the metal frame.
My 1991 GTA has the style like the one shown on Hawks site:

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/pr...%252dUSED.html

 

the change was late 91

Lon has everything you would need, as posted by JamesC

that link will show you everything, you can get a rebuild kit or an already rebuilt unit. he sells all three variations

 

Yes I have all the parts to rebuild your hatch pull-down unit. Or I'll rebuild one for you which includes a 1 yr warranty.

Here is the hatch release solenoid:
http://www.top-downsolutions.com/hat...lease-solenoid

Lon

 

Well I ordered a complete assembly from Hawks (Sorry Lon, didn't see the posts until the next morning) but it still isn't working so I went wire hunting.

The fuse for the both the motor and "LID" are fine. The orange wire leading from the motor fuse to the release switch in the center console has 12v going through it until I get to the relay connection in the console. The last place I measure 12v at is under the kick panel right next to the seat before the wire goes under the seat. But what's weird and confusing is that when I hook the leads of my meter to the brown wire terminal and the tan/white terminal on the relay connector and press the hatch release switch I get a reading of 10.21v even though the orange wire (main power from fuse box) has nothing.

The relay in the back behind the motor panel is not getting any power.

Neither relay clicks when I press the sensing switch on the motor assembly or the hatch release switch and both relays have tested good (continuity).

Going off of the power loss to the release relay I'm guessing there is a break under the seat somewhere which in-turn is causing no power to be sent to the rear relay/motor.

I'm going to pull the seat out this weekend and check the wiring for breaks but I just wanted to get some your guys' input on this as well.

Thanks!

 

Two things I should mention regarding the solenoid hatch release. The hot wire to the solenoid is a black wire that plugs into the end of the solenoid. There is another black wire with a large ring terminal on one end and a small ring terminal on the other that is critical. This wire supplies ground to the solenoid. Without that wire the solenoid will not fire. The large ring terminal connects to the 10mm screw that attached the solenoid to the latch assy. The small ring terminal connects to the ground location on the body below the pull-down unit.

Lon

 

Hey Lon, thanks for the reply.

I've recognized the black wire as being the hot from a wiring diagram I managed to find on the internet. Problem is, it has no voltage at all. The only time I can get voltage on that wire (what I believe is that wire) is when I press the hatch release switch in the console as described in my previous post (description of no voltage on orange wire). But even then I'm only getting about 0.051v to "a" black wire that is part of the hatch motor harness in the back. I quoted a due to there being 2 or 3 black wires in the same harness and I'm not entirely sure which one is the proper 'hot' wire. The ground is connected as you described and the area has being thoroughly cleaned to assure the best contact with ground and avoid a high resistance situation. Besides the confusing ordeal I'm having with the orange wire leading from the hatch motor fuse to the hatch release switch in the console, everything seems fine.

Any further input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Correct, you won't get voltage on that wire until you press the hatch release switch. Trace the wiring further forward. I recall there is a light brown with white stripe wire that grounds to the body adjacent to the e-brake. Good luck tracing the wiring.

Lon

 

Alright well I've gotten the motor to work finally after fixing the wire that I suspected of having a break.

After testing it a few times to make sure it would pull the hatch closed and then move back up after opening the hatch I disassembled the assembly to clean it and reapply the grease to the slides.

When I was putting the motor back into the housing I noticed it took a little bit more force than what I thought it should but still sat flush against the housing was in.

Well no the motor will only pull the hatch closed, it will not retract after re-opening the hatch lid. I pulled the motor back out and noticed the carbon ends had been sheared off.

My question is, is there a place that I can go to to buy just the motor brushes and not a whole new housing? The motor assembly came out of the camaro my junk yard has so the yard is out of the question. I looked at top-down already but did not find just a brush set. If it comes down to it I'll just go ahead and buy another housing but I want to make sure that there are no other options left first. Will R/C motor brushes work for this by just soldering the ends to the solenoid leads?

Thanks in advance.

 

It is too bad you did not read the Tech Article that I wrote and is posted here on Thirdgen.org. The cover of the motor should not be removed or you'll break the brushes. No replacement brushes available. Your options are a good used motor or a new motor. The new motor is an improved design that includes the clear plastic motor housing. If you can't find a good used motor at the Pick-a-Part yard, I have both available on my web site.

Here is a link to the Tech Article that has been waiting for your use for nearly 12 years: https://www.thirdgen.org/tech/hatchpulldown.pdf

Used motor on TDS web site: http://www.top-downsolutions.com/hat...-applications)

Reinforced new-style motor on TDS web site: http://www.top-downsolutions.com/hat...atch-pull-down

Don't limit your search for a good used motors to a Camaro or Firebird. Most of the high end GM cars had a pull-down trunk motor (Cadillac, Buick, etc.). They are often in a lot better condition than those from a Camaro or Firebird because the trunk is a LOT lighter than a hatch.

I hope this helps.

Lon

 

Thanks for replying Lon.

I didn't remove the cover, I simply removed the motor itself to clean and apply new grease to the spindle.

I guess since it was so old the cover decided to stay with the housing when I removed to motor.

I will go ahead and buy a new motor from you then if there are no brushes out there that will work. Is the motor all I need or will I need a new housing as well?

 

There are advantages and disadvantages regardless of which way you decide to go (good used motor vs. new motor).

Old motor: If your plastic motor housing is in good shape (showing no cracks), then you can just swap in a good used motor. Another advantage going this route is that in the future IF your housing breaks you can swap JUST the housing.

New motor: GM changed the design of the motor. The new style motor has the motor housing attached to it with two long screws. It is a direct swap for your old motor AND motor housing. IMO there was an improvement when they went with the new design. There is now a brass bearing to support the end of the worm-drove of the motor. In theory this may help to keep the worm-drive in contact with the OD gear of the gearnut. The disadvantage of the new motor is that in the future IF the clear plastic housing breaks, you'll have to replace the entire motor and housing since it is an integral assembly.

One thing I've noticed is that many of the old style motors sound stronger than the new style motor. I have thought about rigging up some sort of a test to prove this, but I haven't done it yet.

The choice is yours which path you want to take at this time.

Lon

 

Thanks for the great information Lon. Really helpful.

Will let you know what happens when I get the replacement.

Thanks!

 

Hey Lon,

I received the new motor from you today but when I went to put it in I noticed that the orientation of the motor cover is different from the original and therefore I could not install it.

I was just wondering if you sell any that are the same orientation as my assembly takes? And what I have to do to set up an exchange for one.

I have attached links to the pictures of the motors side-by-side with the new one I received being on the right.

Thank you

Side-by-side: https://i.imgur.com/rM5CeYu.jpg
Original close-up: https://i.imgur.com/xywV4r2.jpg
New close-up: https://i.imgur.com/Qi78CpX.jpg

 

Sorry, I must have missed that this was for a late 91-92 style pull-down unit. Attached is a link to the one you need.

I should also add that the motor you need is ONLY available from another late 91-92 F-Body pull-down unit, hence the difference in price.

You can send it back and I'll invoice you for the difference.

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/hat...product_id=211

Lon

 

Alright,thanks Lon.

I have just sent in a return request.