I literally couldn't get to sleep last night because I couldn't work my way through a couple of details.

Background: I'm dropping the engine out of the LS1/4L60E Camaro because of an oil leak. I did both engine swaps (this one and the LS1/T56, both in '82 Berlinettas) dropping the engine/trans in from the top. I decided this time I would drop the engine/trans out from the bottom, as is popularly suggested. I knew about the dolly & hoist stuff, but I couldn't work through how you could drop the car down so the engine/trans were on the dolly, and still get to the trans crossmember and K-member mount bolts.

The good news is getto posted enough pics for me to figure it out.


Just a couple of 4x4's makes all the difference.

I'm glad you had your camera. Thanks!

 

Thanks for pointing that out! I've been through his thread multiple times and missed that little detail that might have had me hung up too.

 

darnit i was wondering the same thing. thats what i get for not paying enough attention to specific details.

 

I had heard that dropping the kmember was a good idea but with my car having a rebuilt title(front end collision) I was afraid I may never be able to get the bolts back in if I took it out(even though it would have had a wonder bar installed for stability). Dropping the motor in from the top was cake, but I had a lift and a transmission jack that allowed me to easily slide the trans in.

However I must say the worst part of the whole deal was getting the front coil springs back in. 3 hours for the first one....about 1 hour for #2. On my first attempt I shot one out under low tension and scared the crap out of my buddy.

 

When I first got this 3rd gen it had a V6. I picked up a donor V8 car and went through all the hassle of changing the engine mounts on the K-member. I asked about those 4 bolts holding it up and was told you can't just unbolt the K-member from the car. Shouldn't have listened.

I haven't enjoyed the spring change thing, either. I have some spring clamps (used for coil-over-struts) that help a little. But, you don't have to pull the springs - Pocket has some pics showing that.

 

I tell you, it's things like this that have me convinced I should buy a 2-post lift! I have seen a lot of them around my area going for anywhere between $800.oo and $1,200.oo. Now.... I just need some concrete to mount it on....

 

That would be nice.

Looks like I'll be sticking with the cherry picker for now, though.

 

Now I can sleep.

 

Nice work!
Looks like your on ramps in the back, any fears of it rolling/falling off? Is that a pretty level surface too? I'm trying to get my bro in law to let me do mine in his paint shop with a lift. He's pretty busy though so I may end up with the driveway and cherry picker.

 

I dont undertsand dropping it out since our cars dont hid the engine under the windshiel like the 4th gens, 2 volts for the engine and then a strans x memver and mine comes out the top, i like to remove the trans as well before the engine usually.

 

I have one ramp facing forward and the other facing rearward. The garage floor is reasonably level (slight downward toward the front of the garage), but has seams down the middle of each stall and between each stall. Getting the dolly wheels over them was a bit of a challenge.

Having done it both ways now, I can say dropping is the more sane. I do not like having the engine and trans separated - harnesses to fuss with, bolts to undo on your back or you need to be Elasticman, etc.

 

Guess it is preference, seems to be more work to me to remove suspension, springs ect.

 

Do you think it was easier out the bottom leaving EVERYTHING attached? Harness, hoses, belt even...

 

So far. Don't forget headers. And starter. Not having to fuss with them with the engine in the car is a big plus.

We'll see if I change my mind on the way back in. Putting the springs back in will be the biggest challenge. I plan on cutting off half a coil first (sat a bit high with the lighter engine).

 

Looks like fun... I'm going to be dropping mine out of the bottom too here in a few weeks. I'm assuming that getting the rearend up off the ground makes it easier to get the engine out from underneath?

 

Yes. You don't have to lift the front end as much, and it's easier to get to the tranny crossmember bolts with the rear up a little.

I was a little concerned about the front end hitting the rafters when lifting it up. Turns out it wasn't an issue, although I did have to drop the hood down onto the hoist boom (as you can see in the photos).

 

Your K-member has 3 different length bolts. When lining it back up, use the longest two in the rear (installed will use the shortest). Then set the chassis down. The rear bolts will guide it onto the alignment pins, the pins will make everything right, then install the rest. No fingers in danger, easy peasy

The coils on the otherhand are a royal pain. Even the proper tool isnt easy to use. I had the best luck using a bunch of straps to keep the spring from taking flight, then using a floor jack to compress the spring. Still wasnt easy any of the times I did it

 

Glad you got it out! Also glad my pictures helped ya! I used those blocks of wood just to help with the angles and all. I think it was a 2x6 in the front and a 4x4 in the rear. Ive since permanently attached those to that dolly. Its now SPECIFICALLY for removing the motor haha.

As for which way is easier... I guess its all in preference. But after removing the trans with the motor in the car...I will NEVER do that again haha. Honestly, if my trans has an issue, Ill be pulling the entire driveline. Sounds crazy...but I can do it SO quick, and my set up is catered to dropping from the bottom. I dont even need to open my A/C or anything. Five7... I noticed you left your a-arms and knuckles attached. Its only two bolts per side to get that stuff off. Just leave the knuckles and a-arms attached. But BOY does it reduce the amount of weight and things flopping around on you. Those assemblies are crazy heavy.

Getting the coils back in always takes longer the first time. DEF make sure you chain or strap the coil to the a-arm. Let me repeat...STRAP THE COIL TO THE A-ARM... The stock springs can be extremely frustrating. My Eibach's literally slip right into place. Which makes putting my front end together SO much quicker and easier. If you guys are cutting half a coil or even a coil...you'll be surprised how much easier they slip in. My process for removing/replacing is just to strap em in, slowly let the jack down until the springs can lightly pop/fall out of place. Install is the reverse just taking my time and watching for when the jack starts lifting the whole car.

Ive given LOTS of thought to finding a way to drop the k-member with the a-arms and springs still attached. Everything from making bolt in straps, to temporarily welding metal between the k-member and a-arm. Just couldtn come up with something that seemed safe and worth the trouble. I dont even want to think of getting it all out, and having those springs let loose while its sitting there.

Ive done the remove/install process through the bottom a few times now, and Ive done it with and without help. After the first time...its easy. Just gotta use your head and be careful (which is good advice for just about anything I guess) haha.

 

If i had a lift, i think i would do it that way.

 

So did I. I wrapped a small chain around it from behind and left the springs in all the times I dropped the drivetrain. Surprisingly they did not hyper extend and pop out or even come close. Maybe the sway bar end links held it together, Im not sure. Even with the engine off the K-member they did not move any farther than full droop for the suspension. I was in a rush when I did it and in hindsight, Im not sure it was the safest plan, but it did hold together and i got pretty rough with it

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/DSC01656.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/DSC01812.jpg

 

Where the heck did you wrap the chain??? That looks great though..exactly how Ide like to drop my motor out this time around, except Ill still be pulling the wheels and all off so I can get low enough to use my hoist.

I have my new idea...and Im going to try it when the motor is out next time. Im going to weld a heavy nut, on TOP of the k-member spring pocket. Ill clearance if I have to. Then, Im going to use a long bolt to go up through the spring, with a piece of plate to retain the a-arm. Sort of like a spring compressor, but sandwiching the a-arm to the k-member, and meant to stay in place vs. being removed. Of course it'll get safety chained before and after its all out. Just in case. This will ONLY let me remove the k-member with the springs in. It wont allow me to remove the springs while the k-member is off the car. The bolt wont be long enough for that. The idea is to install the bolt before even lifting the car up. So that the suspension stays at ride height.

I have access to some industrial bolts and threaded rod and nuts, so I might even go with a square thread type similar to what a compressor would use.

J.

 

Ive got it down pretty good now dropping it in from above. The only trick is to have the car up on big jack stands as high as it will go then you can tilt the angle enough to drop it in easily. Keep in mind though I have an overhead crane and 14' ceiling height so that helps.

My car is dangerously close to this stage now too... Only a wiring harness and some paint work left. I have SOOOOOOO much work piling up I literally NEED to get this thing done and out of here ASAP

So long story short? No build thread, no pics, no time. Story of my life

But I will post up the results and finished product

 

i did the motor and trans separately too, so i went from the top as well. definitely helped to have a load leveler (in my case, a ghetto one - 2 heavy duty tie down straps) to get things in just right.

doing it this way, the transmission was not fun i must say, but its up and not planning on doing that again any time soon.......

 

Middle of the A-arm to as high as i could reach in the spring coils. Chain is on the backside in the pics

Instead of a nut, why not weld a small loop on the farthest edges of the K-member so you can hook a strap or steel cable. A nut welded on will only allow the rod to be within a specific axis. It would need to move with the a-arm travel

I left the wheels on to speed moving it around and to help line things up. Theres a wheel dolly under the trans pan and some boards to lift it up roughly level with the engine

 

The only issue with putting loops or something on the sides, is now there is leverage on those points. Im not convinced my welds would hold, and it'd be hard to get something to bolt into it.

The bolt/nut method wouldnt need to move with suspension at all. It locks the suspension in at ride height. No way will it want to compress any further while its not under the car.

Here...did this quick 4 minute sketch of what i mean. Should be self explanitory...have to forgive the accuracy haha.



J.

P.S...Five7 sorry for the slight hijacking haha. Your thread brought up all those thoughts I had about how to do this. If you are taking the whole front end apart anyway, removing the springs isnt a big deal. But in my case, I want to drop my motor and trans, and then slid my front suspension back under to keep it a roller. This would let me do that VERY quickly and easily. Not having to deal with the springs, or getting the a-arm bolts lined up would be a massive help.

 

No problem, details like this can cause loss of sleep.

A member a while back made a "T" bolt that would stick up through the slot in the top of the K-member, turned it 90 degrees, and then put a plate under the A-arm with a nut under it to keep the spring compressed. I considered that, but didn't carry through. Once I had the struts disconnected, I decided to go ahead and remove the springs.

Welding a nut to the top of the K-member is an interesting thought. The slot for the "T" bolt isn't very big.

I vaguely recall hearing that the slot was for a factory assembly tool that kept the springs compressed until the K-member was mated with the body. The engine and tranny were already attached to the K-member when this occurred, of course.

 

Yeah Ive seen that before too I think. And there are "inner" spring compressors that use this theory, but I dont think they go up into the k-member. Im all about overkill with just about everything I do. And holding back that much potential energy puts my overkill into high gear haha. The welded nut would just make things that much more sturdy. Just an idea...Im sure Ill post ***** the idea when/if I try it haha.

J.

 

Overkill is always a good idea with coil springs. Those spots on the kmember and a-arms look like what some vehicles have for shock mounts. Makes sense that it would be able to hold the spring together.

 

Haven't updated this in awhile because I haven't gotten much done lately.

The engine and tranny went back in about 2 weeks ago. Getting time to finish getting it back together has been rare. Didn't help much that my daughter had a baby a week ago Tuesday (first grandchild - my wife had been with them since late March, meaning I had more "duties" around the house), or that I was out of town last week Wed thru Sun, and had meetings Mon & Tues evening.

I took a day off of work Wednesday - had planned on getting out to the last test & tune session before the first points race of the season. Ended up spending most of the day trying to get those front springs back in. Finally went to Advance Auto and got a loaner spring compressor. With that and some assistance from my son, finally got them back in at about 4 p.m.

Next hurdle was getting the exhaust put back together. I had to cut the I-pipe just behind the "Y" in order to get it off of the headers, so I welded flanges back on this time so it'll be easier next time. Got most of the underneath things done before calling it quits.

Thursday evening I had the last little things left - bleed brakes, install fuel line, install radiator, install air inlet, connect battery (which had to be charged up), reconnect the tach wire inside the car, add fluids. Had to take time out to have birthday cake for my son (we were out of town on his actual birthday last weekend, and my wife is leaving town in the morning, so had to be tonight), then went back out to finish it up after that. At 1:02 a.m., I was ready to turn the key over for the first time. I let the fuel pump come on, and checked for leaks. None. Turned it to "Start", and it acted like it had only been sitting overnight. Let it idle while filling the radiator and tranny, checked for leaks, didn't see any; backed it out of the garage at 1:32 to get it good & warm to check the tranny level. Something wasn't right, was only running on 7 cylinders. I pulled into a gas station, put in 10 gallons of premium, popped the hood, felt the header tubes - #1 was much cooler. Went to wiggle the injector connector - oops, wasn't snapped on all the way. Runs much better now, drove it back home, only 45 MPH speed limits so resisted temptation (mostly). Back in the garage, topped off the tranny and radiator, overall seems happy. Idle is better, doesn't require the extra air "leak" like it used to. Half a coil off of the LG4 springs seems to put the ride height right back where it should be.

Only "weird" thing (other than running on 7 cylinders) was during the initial idling, the fans came on high. I let it run that way for about 30 seconds then shut off the engine. The fans stayed on low. I let it sit for a couple of minutes, they kept running, so I turned the ignition back to "Run" and they shut off. Stayed off when I turned the ignition back to off. Never did it again. The coolant wasn't completely full (sucked the overflow dry while I went into the house to get my cell phone), maybe that's why it did it. But, I don't ever recall the fans staying on without the ignition in "Run" before.

First points race of the season is Friday evening. Looks like I may have a "race car" after all.

Time to get some sleep...