3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
Engine: LS3 4" Strkr 422ci
Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Heres my simple cost effective solution to running a T56 (LS1 in this case) with the 3rd gen pedals not having to be touched and re-using the 3rd gen clutch master.
Tools:
-Sockets/ratchet to remove to the clutch master form the car
-a small dremel kit from AZ or whereever you shop (i got mine for $10 from Autozone)
-cordless drill or dremel (if you dont already have a dremel, i didnt, hence the drill)
-pair of wide pliers or the like, just something to drive the roll pin in tight
-punch or something the same size to drive out the roll pin (TO BE RE-USED)
Parts:
-4th gen hydraulic line (bought mine used off LS1tech for $25 shipped)
-3rd gen clutch master w/ roll pin (you must get it out to re-use it or find another one same size)
I only have one pic, but its simple, take out the 3rd gen clutch master, push out the roll pin, pull out the line. If you compare the two, the 3rd gen main line after the flat surface is longer than the 4th gen, this means the 4th gen line bottoms out and wont allow a roll pin to be put in place. Simply take the smaller cylinder shaped grinding stone (the kit from AZ fit in the bore of clutch master almost perfectly), slide into the drill and bore it little by little checking the 4th gen line fitment until the flat roll pin groove on the line is just barely in the way of the hole. I made it so the roll pin was really tight on it, keeping the line nice and tight. This might have been a long write up for a simple fix but hey, you dont have to buy a 4th gen clutch master, and you dont have to mod the pedals at all.
Tools:
-Sockets/ratchet to remove to the clutch master form the car
-a small dremel kit from AZ or whereever you shop (i got mine for $10 from Autozone)
-cordless drill or dremel (if you dont already have a dremel, i didnt, hence the drill)
-pair of wide pliers or the like, just something to drive the roll pin in tight
-punch or something the same size to drive out the roll pin (TO BE RE-USED)
Parts:
-4th gen hydraulic line (bought mine used off LS1tech for $25 shipped)
-3rd gen clutch master w/ roll pin (you must get it out to re-use it or find another one same size)
I only have one pic, but its simple, take out the 3rd gen clutch master, push out the roll pin, pull out the line. If you compare the two, the 3rd gen main line after the flat surface is longer than the 4th gen, this means the 4th gen line bottoms out and wont allow a roll pin to be put in place. Simply take the smaller cylinder shaped grinding stone (the kit from AZ fit in the bore of clutch master almost perfectly), slide into the drill and bore it little by little checking the 4th gen line fitment until the flat roll pin groove on the line is just barely in the way of the hole. I made it so the roll pin was really tight on it, keeping the line nice and tight. This might have been a long write up for a simple fix but hey, you dont have to buy a 4th gen clutch master, and you dont have to mod the pedals at all.
#2
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
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Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
wow no feedback?? did i offend everyone modding 3rd gen pedals or swapping to 4th gen?? lol
#3
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Let us know how it shifts for ya
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Car: 1989 Camaro RS
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
the 3rd gen master going to push/flow enough fluid to work the 4th gen system?
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Car: 89 Camaro RS
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I've been using a 3rd gen master cyl. with my t56 for a year without any shifting problems. Using -3an braided line instead of the 4th gen line for easy bleeding.
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Just asking, kinda wondering about the above ^^^
How hard are you on it? Stock clutch or aftermarket?
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
damnit i sold my master with the trans
#13
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I butchered up a bushing from a 3rd gen and used a generic parts store e-clip to hold my thirdgen pedals onto my 4th gen hydraulics.
It works fine but i have that real early disengagement issue that's so common. Not sure what causes it. Let me know if your method has that issue.
It works fine but i have that real early disengagement issue that's so common. Not sure what causes it. Let me know if your method has that issue.
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
How hard are you on it? Stock clutch or aftermarket?[/quote]
I drive it pretty hard on a regular basis. stock clutch. Bleeding only takes a few minutes with the -3 steel braided line using a MitiVac.
I drive it pretty hard on a regular basis. stock clutch. Bleeding only takes a few minutes with the -3 steel braided line using a MitiVac.
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Car: '91 Trans Am GTA / '83 Camaro
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Transmission: Tremec TR-3550 / TH-400
Axle/Gears: Stock 10-bolt, 3.42 /10-bolt
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I butchered up a bushing from a 3rd gen and used a generic parts store e-clip to hold my thirdgen pedals onto my 4th gen hydraulics.
It works fine but i have that real early disengagement issue that's so common. Not sure what causes it. Let me know if your method has that issue.
It works fine but i have that real early disengagement issue that's so common. Not sure what causes it. Let me know if your method has that issue.
#16
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
Engine: LS3 4" Strkr 422ci
Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
sorry i forgot to get back on this, i drive the car everyday now, 3rd gen clutch master works great, pedal engages high so i can tap it into gears easily, also, i broke the bushing in the pedal as well and ended up getting some snap rings from AZ, one of the boxes of misc. sizes they sell has 3 or 4 that are just the right size for it but i also still have the shell of the bushing in there to keep the rod tight.
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Car: '91 Trans Am GTA / '83 Camaro
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Thanks for the quick reply. I think I found it...one for a 7/16" shaft seems to work well. Although I haven't driven it yet...just pushed the clutch in half a dozen times...
#18
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
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Transmission: MN12 6 speed
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
no problem, i went ahead and attached a zip tie as well, kind of as a "safety" catch in case the snap ring lets go, alittle "hackish" but better safe than sorry.
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
SO this has been working well for everyone?
#21
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Great. Damn i wish i didn't sell my master cylinder....does anyone know if the 4th gen master is the same?
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Bringin' this back...
Awesome, I will be doing this with my Lt1 T56 swap.
Awesome, I will be doing this with my Lt1 T56 swap.
#23
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I'm looking at options now as well. I have a complete 4th gen and my complete t5 thirdgen. Looking for the best solution, but I do have 3rd and 4th gen everything, so would you just swap it out if you had it or run it as you did?
What makes it so much easier than swapping to everything 4th gen if you have the parts? I'm weighing options...
Thanks
What makes it so much easier than swapping to everything 4th gen if you have the parts? I'm weighing options...
Thanks
#24
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Car: 91 rs,1 92 rs,92 b4c/1le
Engine: 5.0tbi,5.7 tune port/5.0tpi
Transmission: 5spdx2 and t56
Axle/Gears: 3.08,3.73,3.42
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
looks to be a good idea i will be trying this out
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
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Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I'm looking at options now as well. I have a complete 4th gen and my complete t5 thirdgen. Looking for the best solution, but I do have 3rd and 4th gen everything, so would you just swap it out if you had it or run it as you did?
What makes it so much easier than swapping to everything 4th gen if you have the parts? I'm weighing options...
Thanks
What makes it so much easier than swapping to everything 4th gen if you have the parts? I'm weighing options...
Thanks
#26
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I was looking into the possibility of doing this with my LS1 swap and I came across this thread. I knew both cars used a roll pin design for holding in the clutch line, but I was looking to find if they were the same size, now I know!
Anyways, to add to the topic, according to RockAuto both my '91 Z28's stock master and a '00 Z28's master have a 3/4" bore. They both look like they have about the same piston travel so my thoughts are that they both should be able to move the slave the same distance.
All I need now is just a stock LS1 clutch line (no master!). Thanks guys!
Anyways, to add to the topic, according to RockAuto both my '91 Z28's stock master and a '00 Z28's master have a 3/4" bore. They both look like they have about the same piston travel so my thoughts are that they both should be able to move the slave the same distance.
All I need now is just a stock LS1 clutch line (no master!). Thanks guys!
#27
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Car: 91 rs,1 92 rs,92 b4c/1le
Engine: 5.0tbi,5.7 tune port/5.0tpi
Transmission: 5spdx2 and t56
Axle/Gears: 3.08,3.73,3.42
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
ok i have a set of hydralics for a 96 camaro installed to third gen pedals,they work with the t56 i had before i went crazy and had to have a ls,now i noticed that the line was the same for the ls hydralics and it attached no problem.i will let everyonr know how it works once i get my harness from pocket
#28
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
Engine: LS3 4" Strkr 422ci
Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I was looking into the possibility of doing this with my LS1 swap and I came across this thread. I knew both cars used a roll pin design for holding in the clutch line, but I was looking to find if they were the same size, now I know!
Anyways, to add to the topic, according to RockAuto both my '91 Z28's stock master and a '00 Z28's master have a 3/4" bore. They both look like they have about the same piston travel so my thoughts are that they both should be able to move the slave the same distance.
All I need now is just a stock LS1 clutch line (no master!). Thanks guys!
Anyways, to add to the topic, according to RockAuto both my '91 Z28's stock master and a '00 Z28's master have a 3/4" bore. They both look like they have about the same piston travel so my thoughts are that they both should be able to move the slave the same distance.
All I need now is just a stock LS1 clutch line (no master!). Thanks guys!
#29
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
Engine: LS3 4" Strkr 422ci
Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
ok i have a set of hydralics for a 96 camaro installed to third gen pedals,they work with the t56 i had before i went crazy and had to have a ls,now i noticed that the line was the same for the ls hydralics and it attached no problem.i will let everyonr know how it works once i get my harness from pocket
#30
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I noticed on Rock Auto that most replacement 3rd gen master cylinders are 3/4 inch bore. One brand claims to have a 1" bore:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...679&cc=1251166
Anyone think the larger bore would work better with the 4th gen slave cylinder? I'm still trying to understand all the options and challenges with using a t56.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...679&cc=1251166
Anyone think the larger bore would work better with the 4th gen slave cylinder? I'm still trying to understand all the options and challenges with using a t56.
#31
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I took my master off, drilled it out just deep enough to get my 4th gen line in there enough for the retaining pin to hold it in there nice and tight and it works just fine.
Don't forget to do the "drill mod" for the clutch line (this apparently is a big help with the clutch returning on high RPM shifting), and I suggest you use a grinding bit on a dremel like shown in this how to. I used a drill bit and I got lucky that it doesn't leak.
I haven't done much driving on it, however, it works good enough for now, and if I ever feel like upgrading I'll be going with the tick unit.
To get the car on the road, this works great, no messing with pedals and pins etc.
Don't forget to do the "drill mod" for the clutch line (this apparently is a big help with the clutch returning on high RPM shifting), and I suggest you use a grinding bit on a dremel like shown in this how to. I used a drill bit and I got lucky that it doesn't leak.
I haven't done much driving on it, however, it works good enough for now, and if I ever feel like upgrading I'll be going with the tick unit.
To get the car on the road, this works great, no messing with pedals and pins etc.
#32
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
This might have been covered somewhere here, but I have lt1 t56, can I use those when I change my t56 to an LS1 style t56?
#33
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Pedals yes, hydraulics no
Master cyl is the same more or less, but a LT1 system is factory sealed, so breaking it open means the slave is trash and you'd have to source a LS1 line which is pricey. Easier to find a LS1 master/line
Master cyl is the same more or less, but a LT1 system is factory sealed, so breaking it open means the slave is trash and you'd have to source a LS1 line which is pricey. Easier to find a LS1 master/line
#35
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Its a sealed unit, there is no bleeder. Good luck getting all the air out of it
The cav unit is commonly used to solve this
Now, if he keeps the master, hes still out the line and good luck finding on of those for sale separately. New they are around $150. Back to the start of dump it and buy a LS1 master/line combo for $50-100 which are common from people upgrading
The cav unit is commonly used to solve this
Now, if he keeps the master, hes still out the line and good luck finding on of those for sale separately. New they are around $150. Back to the start of dump it and buy a LS1 master/line combo for $50-100 which are common from people upgrading
#36
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Its a sealed unit, there is no bleeder. Good luck getting all the air out of it
The cav unit is commonly used to solve this
Now, if he keeps the master, hes still out the line and good luck finding on of those for sale separately. New they are around $150. Back to the start of dump it and buy a LS1 master/line combo for $50-100 which are common from people upgrading
The cav unit is commonly used to solve this
Now, if he keeps the master, hes still out the line and good luck finding on of those for sale separately. New they are around $150. Back to the start of dump it and buy a LS1 master/line combo for $50-100 which are common from people upgrading
#37
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
Pocket and vortex thanks for the replies. I don't want to hijack this guys post it was just something I was wondering about with my swap, and I think something others don't really know either.
#38
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
ok - I want to use my stock master cylinder with an LS style T56. I have the T56 slave cylinder. So, can I use this McLeod clutch line?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-139212/overview/
Looks like this line will allow me to change the fitting to the master cylinder. Is a 4th gen hydraulic line the proper length for use in my 3rd gen? Thanks
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-139212/overview/
Looks like this line will allow me to change the fitting to the master cylinder. Is a 4th gen hydraulic line the proper length for use in my 3rd gen? Thanks
#39
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I used a stock 4th gen line, right sized drill bit in the stock master just deep enough to get the roll pin to hold the 4th gen line in nice and tight and it works just fine.
#41
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I ordered a new master cylinder, a mcleod clutch line, and a russell clutch fitting. The part #'s are 136.62011, 139204-30, and 641001. The 3rd gen master cylinder is made by centric, and it's advertised to have a 1" bore. The mcleod clutch line has a 4th gen slave cylinder quick disconnect which is connected to an -4 AN hose. The -4 AN hose connects to a shorter -3 AN hose. I was able to connect the russell fitting to the end of the -3 AN. The russell fitting was a perfect match for the 3rd gen clutch. It all fits together without having to dremel. Thanks to 88FormulaKiller for spearheading this idea.
Last edited by johnw999; 05-11-2017 at 02:47 PM. Reason: needed to correct the Russell fitting part number
#42
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
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Transmission: MN12 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.73 8.5" 10 Bolt Eaton
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I ordered a new master cylinder, a mcleod clutch line, and a russell clutch fitting. The part #'s are 136.62011, 139204-30, and 640281. The 3rd gen master cylinder is made by centric, and it's advertised to have a 1" bore. The mcleod clutch line has a 4th gen slave cylinder quick disconnect which is connected to an -4 AN hose. The -4 AN hose connects to a shorter -3 AN hose. I was able to connect the russell fitting to the end of the -3 AN. The russell fitting was a perfect match for the 3rd gen clutch. It all fits together without having to dremel. Thanks to 88FormulaKiller for spearheading this idea.
#43
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Car: 1967 Firebird P.T.
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Transmission: MN12 6 speed
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Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I took my master off, drilled it out just deep enough to get my 4th gen line in there enough for the retaining pin to hold it in there nice and tight and it works just fine.
Don't forget to do the "drill mod" for the clutch line (this apparently is a big help with the clutch returning on high RPM shifting), and I suggest you use a grinding bit on a dremel like shown in this how to. I used a drill bit and I got lucky that it doesn't leak.
I haven't done much driving on it, however, it works good enough for now, and if I ever feel like upgrading I'll be going with the tick unit.
To get the car on the road, this works great, no messing with pedals and pins etc.
Don't forget to do the "drill mod" for the clutch line (this apparently is a big help with the clutch returning on high RPM shifting), and I suggest you use a grinding bit on a dremel like shown in this how to. I used a drill bit and I got lucky that it doesn't leak.
I haven't done much driving on it, however, it works good enough for now, and if I ever feel like upgrading I'll be going with the tick unit.
To get the car on the road, this works great, no messing with pedals and pins etc.
I almost forgot to mention this ^ and I apologize. The 4th gen line I got of LS1tech already had the drill mod done, so it may have played a small role in how well it worked. Something to keep in mind.
#44
Senior Member
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I drove it (hard) for the summer of 2015, had zero issues. Didn't drive it this past summer (bought a house, and was too busy doing the Atlantic motocross series here) but, as far as I can tell, I'll be keeping the stock master for a while.
#48
Re: 3rd Gen pedals/clutch master with 4th gen hydraulics
I'm replacing the brake booster on my car. While it's out, I have a good view of my clutch master. Here is a picture of the thirdgen master and the McLeod clutch line. So far, this combination has worked well.
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