TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I know your pain.
I bought a big, "fit like a glove" system - NOT. Had to take it to first shop just to get it together, meh. Second shop I asked to re-section the pass side y-pipe and sat around a talked with the guy just chatting several times. He wouldn't quote me and I was vocal about previous experiences and left a little uneasy. I left thinking 200-250 or a little more.
I came to get the car and he had scalloped the frame rail (and re-boxed) to make room for the tube and for it to tuck-up, re-designed the trans cross-member attachment so the bolts don't interfere (welded on collars on the side of frame rail for side bolt attach). He says, "$250 cash, bring it by tomorrow." I drove away with a little bit of faith restored in the aftermarket. Hope this story helps a little.

I'm a man of faith. I'll pray that you keep your cool, stand on principal, and this guy will meet you half way.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Thats CRAZY. What did he do? See the rest of the car and figure you had money to burn? Im with Pocket. I built my y-pipe out of stainless bends. And also fabbed a double hump crossmember. With v-bands and a magnaflow cat back that I had to do work to. I dont think it was even 12 hours of work total. That was TIG welded, adjusted, and on the car. MAYBE...MAYBE if he were building you a nice crossmember, and that exhaust was really awesome, I could see it. But holy moly!

J.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

You had 12 hrs in your round tube fabrication, now try again with oval tube. Willing to bet you can't do it in the same time frame. I know I can't

STREETDEMON

twin, i don't think you are going to sell anybody on this....

based on what he had in the description, 38hrs is way overkill, especially for a shop that fabricates as a business.

i have a guy about 2hrs away that i have to the stuff i don't want to do. he made a complete dual exhaust with x-pipe from the headers to the tailpipes for my k5 in 45 minutes that was quality. completely welded and all bent from straight sticks. not comparing the two, just making the point, when someone knows what they are doing and how to use the tools in their shop, they can knock stuff out pretty fast.

justin, hopefully you can get this mess sorted out! best of luck.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

No doubt. But we havent seen it yet... If they have experience fabbing with it, it shouldnt be much more difficult for them. For me..oh yeah. Im sure it would have added, or doubled/tripled the time. To be completely honest, I had a LOT of luck even with my round tubing haha. Just sort of worked out and I only had to re-cut a few pieces.

A full on fab shop tho...I would expect them to be able to adjust for the oval. But, I dont know. Im anxious to see how it turns out at the least. Woudl have been nice for the guy to ballpark a quote instead of just doing it and laying on a fat bill. Even if he got into it and said "this is looking to be more work than I thought".

J.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you Justin on this one. Been there before. They never gave you a quote, you asked for it, give them hell until they lower it to something fair like perhaps 500 - 600$ and then bring your car elsewhere IMO.. I brought my car to a shop before and asked for a quote too and kept asking where they're at and how much is it at so far, so they kept saying they'd get back to me.. Then they call me and say "were up to 4000$ of labor so do you want us to stop?" I flipped the f*** out and went there and went through every single item they did and we discussed how long it took to do things and it went from 4000$ to 1700$, and they're still making money on that. Sometimes these guys will take advantage of you because you have a nice car and are spending all that money on an engine swap so they figure you're made of money, but don't let them do that. Fight it until the end, and get in the nitty gritty of it and ask for every little thing they did and be prepared to tally it all up in front of them. Good luck!

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

ok so after seeing my car, the work he has done, and what he had to do...I can understand the bill now and im a little less upset because everything looks friggen amazing. however he still should have got approval from me first.

I will post some pics when I get home later tonight.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Alright....

so about 9:30 am I show up at PCM of NC and see Kelly. She said she saw the bill I got and was going to go see the car and why it was so much money. We went over there together to check it out.

Tom was there and showed me the car which was on the lift and being worked on. What I saw was a piece of art! I somehow have more ground clearance with my lowered 3rdgen with longtubes and 4" exhaust than a stock 3rdgen has. I was impressed!

My spohn crossmember was removed from the car, and Tom had to custom make a new crossmember or else the exhaust never would have fit. Its hard to explain how he made the crossmember. Hell, it was hard to even SEE the crossmember...it was tucked right up in the trans tunnel.

The headers had v band clamps installed on them, and the lowest part of the collector barely hangs below the frame of the car...this really surprised me.

Off the headers he used a pair of 3"-3.5" oval adapters, into a 3.5" oval Y and mated it to the over the axle pipe which was left round.

Wouldn't you know I forgot my damn camera! So I went back to the first shop, got my camera and some parts, then went back to Toms. Here are the pics I took, in no particular order












As you can see there are a ton of measurements, tiny pieces, tack welds etc he has a ton of time into this exhaust, and a huge chunk into the crossmember....it all fits TIGHT.

Its amazing quality and probably worth every penny of what he's charging, but I never would have authorized him to do it. Even PCM of NC told him he dropped the ball and should have called me,

One of the main reasons I'm not still livid is Tom seems pretty interested in trading my T56 swap I have for sale towards a big chunk of this bill. If he will do that, I will be a happy customer.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I'd be livid still. First it's illegal to just rack up hours like that without giving a quote especially when you requested one multiple times

Next, there's no way in hell he has 38hrs in that y-pipe. I can see 8hrs taking his time maybe. Crossmembers are cake. I've done 8 now and they take under an hour

I'd make him redo the merge section. No collector? That's going to drone like crazy. Also, just after looks like he cut the top section of the tube off and welded a flat plate on. That effectively reduces the cross section where the exhaust need the size the most

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Twin, you can gripe about oval tubing tripling the time all you want. It doesn't

I've dealt with it and custom fabbed several sections, even twists to join different angles of ovals. If you know what you're doing (and a full fab shop should) oval tubing adds at most a few hours on a whole system build. They made a y-pipe with a sharp joint (no merge) with all the ovals in the same direction using almost exclusively strait tubing. 38hrs? Not a chance

A first time builder may take a long time, but looking at the quality pictured, its definitely not his first time. He's taking Justin for a ride, clear as day

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

you know more about NC law than I do...can you show me proof that he MUST give a quote?

JacobIroc

ftp://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislati...ticle_15B.html

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/2fadd24f...to-Repair.aspx

ftp://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislati...ticle_15B.html

http://studentlegalservices.web.unc....2/auto-repair/

My dad worked service at a dealership. Saw it frequently

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

interesting..thank you.

I've contacted my attorney. I won't let this guy keep my car, but I won't be taken advantage of either.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

There may be a catch...I don't think he is registered as a repair shop. I wonder how that plays into this whole thing

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Have your attorney look into it. I know it applies to carpentry work as well

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

ok thanks

dannyboyemt

My jaw dropped when i saw the bill for the exhaust. I hope you get this all sorted out. Sounds like hes trying to pull a fast one on you for sure. Good luck.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Exhaust is done. Factory heat shields had to be removed/modified or replaced.





Here you can see the crossmember. Its tight! He's going to heat wrap the brake and fuel lines too.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

he sent me a quick cell pic earlier

he made the aluminum fan shroud, mounted the fans, and made the aluminum upper radiator mount. Also made the cold air intake. All will be powdercoated black

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Holy cow! Your final bill is going to be like $10k based on that first bill! Looks great though.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

the work in the engine bay is going rather quick

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

Looks GREAT! I hope that the aforementioned matter will be resolving itself to your satisfaction.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Did they powder coat your exhaust? According to my powder coater, you can only put that on parts that won't exceed 400 degrees. He said that is the temperature they use to bake it on in the oven. He said that anything over 400 degrees would need to be ceramic coated.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

ceramic coating was way too costly. thats just high temp paint. makes for easy touchups down the road lol

86Z

iTrader: (4)

wow, i was thinking of an ls style swap now i'm starting to refrain from it, the cost seems ridiculous, and am i right assuming the supercharger cost 7k+ ? is so why?

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

It seems if one is doing a basic LS transplant, if you get the parts at a good price, then it's not bad. Otherwise it seems as the prices can skyrocket pretty quickly.

Side note, I'd love to put one of those D1SC blowers on my 305 one day. Old school!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If you arent afraid to tackle the wiring yourself, the swap isnt too bad. The worst part by far, in my humble opinion, is the exhaust. Mainly connecting the manifolds/headers to whatever cat back you are going to use.

If you have a welder, and dont mind using mild steel and maybe not having the prettiest design, then you can certainly get it done on the cheap.



The exhaust looks pretty decent. But Im kind of with pocket here. That really doesnt look like THAT much work. At least not for a professional fab shop.

The main thing is...as long as you are happy with it, and you get that payment situation satisfied to your liking. Thats all that matters. Im really looking forward to you getting her fired up and on the road. That thing is gonna be funnnnnnn.

J.

carattini

That is going to be an Awsome car.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Thanks I sure hope so

Here is another shot I got today

micktroup2

If I were you, I'd show up with my attorney, the sheriff's deputies and a flat bed and say 'I am here for my car- I did not authorize the work and I am not paying.' He may have the right to remove the parts he installed, under supervision perhaps, but you are in on way obligated to pay for work you did not authorize.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Cooler Heads (pun) will win the day.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

agreed

No4Play

looks good! that isn't $2,600 worth of exhaust work though, lol. great work but not at that price.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

After seeig the pics I have to agree with Pocket and No4Play. That's no 2.6K indeed, not even with the crossmember. I figured he had fabricated a much more intricate setup with a merge for the 2 sides. This is not worth even half. It does look good though but for 2.6K I would have expected more and certainly not a spray painted exhaust. I was thinking stainless but it's not.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I was thinking the same thing. This car deserves stainless exhaust under it. What v-bands did he use? Do you know the brand? I only ask because a lot of the vband sets have stainless steel clamps, but the clanges are carbon steel and WILL rust. I have that goin on with the y-pipe I built.

The engine bay looks great! I like that nice smooth intake look. Kind of wouldnt mind doing that in my engine bay instead of all the rubber elbows and pieces and T clamps. MAN that blower looks nice in there.


J.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

another thing, why not install an ac delete box and get rid of that dryer bottle and the ugly bulgy heater box? Everything is out already, it's only a couple of screws now. You can retain your original wiring and keep the high speed blower relay.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I really need to take my car to my buddies work, spray a couple cans of degreaser on the undercarriage and blast it with his diesel powered steam cleaner. That old SBC leaked No matter what I tried, it seems the only way to stop a SBC from leaking is to replace it with an LS1

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Because I'm keeping my AC

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Just an update. ...I received a new bill thursday. My car is almost done and aside from the exhaust, the fabricator spent most of this week on my car and the new bill was less than the first. This makes me much happier....he likely cut the exhaust bill in half then added time for the rest of the work he did this week. Very happy that he made things right

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

It is my humble opinion that prayer works!
The end result is soul satisfying for you and the vendor. Excellent report! Cooler heads win races.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Fabricator is done with my car and its going to the tuner today! Here are some more pics I got

-4thgen washer bottle is between the headlights now
-next to radiator cap is a silver overflow cylinder
-far left is the supercharger overflow
-CAI will be removed and powdercoated black to match everything else


Here you get another view of the engine bay...its a little more completed now


After my car is done, it goes to the body shop for some touch up under the hood and it will be finished.

I'm going to see the fabricator thursday and settle with him, and go to the tuner to see my car.

No4Play

looking great!

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I feel your pain. Since Stainless Works is right up the street from me I had them do a custom Y pipe. Bill wasnt cheap but man was the work beautiful.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Went to see my car today. Remember how the fabricator sent me a bill last week for $2023. I figured he reworked his numbers and lowered the bill so I was pretty happy.

I was so wrong. It was actually a second bill. He ended up raping me for $4300 in the end. My lawyers say im screwed with no recourse. I'm going to look into a second opinion.

So, on to the good news. The work looks amazing and couldn’t be better. I’ve taken some pics:

Aftercooler for the supercharger


Passenger front fender. This is where the cold air intake starts, and you can see the supercharger coolant pump. This will all be covered by a plastic valence


Crossmember is complete, painted, and installed with a new mount


Custom driveshaft loop


Fuel pump relays

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Sorry you got taken and maybe not the nicest thing to say but from what I see you should have gotten a whole lot more. That crossmember is nothing more than some square tubing welded together and ground down (I hate ground down stuff, makes it look like a dog bone, pretty/clean welds never need to be ground down for aesthetics) and stufflike screwing relays to a floor pan. What would it take to mount thise somewhere convenient, like in the engine bay? It's really easy..just takes some wire. I know because I have a water/air intercooler also and have the pump mounted up front and the relays are stock GM so it looks factory and they are next to the other stock relays on the fender (uses stock fuse holders also)

So basically he welded up a Y pipe and pained it, the exhausst kikt for the rest.. ?? off the shelf? then the crossmember and the CAI? Shouldn't have cost more than maybe 1500 or so. The crossmember can be whipped up in an hour or 2, the CAI ...same deal.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I was billed for 73 hours total.

There was a lot of small stuff he did too that hasn't been discussed, but still....grossly overcharged. Just glad he's DONE with the car.

FASTERTHANUMARK

iTrader: (37)

Wow lookin real good bro. Unfortunate on that price tag. But I cant wait to see some complete and runnin vids! Lmao

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Time to take out a second mortgage lol

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

For the power you'll be making, I'd suggest an upgraded torque arm. My last setup bent the stocker into a U and pushed the driveshaft into the ebrake cables