I have been calling and emailing many companies as I continue to research all the parts I will need to make this LSx swap happen in my 92 camaro. I was referred to the WS6 store regarding the fuel system and so far it seems that the best route for that will be to use dual 340lph pumps to supply enough fuel for 1000 crank HP. I mentioned that I planned on using the intake/throttle body/injectors/ECM from FI tech and was told that the system is hard to tune and get right. It was recommended to me to source an 0411 PCM from something like a corvette/GTO and use an engine harness from PSI. At that point, I would need to locate the actual intake manifold, throttle body and injectors. Apparently, the 0411 ECM is easily tuneable by HP tuners or EFI live and can be made to work with a 3 bar system. I was just curious to know if anyone has any experience with the PSI harnesses. I suppose I will have to research intake manifolds now, but figured I would ask if there are any out there better suited to forced induction.
Sorry for being a pain...

 

What heads do you have?

OE style longitudinal intake, or single plane carb style intake?

 

Spending big money on a 427 and cheaping out on a PSI harness?

 

I've dealt with a few PSI harnesses and here lately, their quality seems suspect. If youre determined to use a factory style harness, check out "The Driveway Engineer" on YouTube. He reviewed a Chinese harness that was ok, according to him. Rumor is certain harness suppliers are selling marked up Chinese harnesses now.

May I ask the reason why you want to use the factory style harness? Do you want to tune it yourself?

As a tuner, I will say this. Unless you NEED to pass an OBDII scan to get thru emissions, I would lean to the Holley Terminator X. Why?
1. HP Tuners PRO is $650 (with the 2 credits needed to license a P01 or P59 ECM). People talked about wiring a wideband thru the AC circuit. Eff that. What if you want to tune OTHER vehicles?
2. If you run the factory ECM and want to tune it yourself, you NEED a wideband. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise. $200-$300 bucks for the cheaper ones.
3. 427? 3 bar? Turbo? You'll need a 2-step ($300 bucks) and a boost controller (the E-Boost low line model is slightly under $400).
4. PSI Harness? $550 for the 24x harness with DBC. Trans control or not.
5. E85? Price of sensor AND finding the RIGHT ECM OS. Sure you can overwrite the OS thats 2 more credits. $100
6. Add in the gauges required. You can monitor it with an OBDII scan tool and a 7 inch Android tablet if you want to (This is what I have setup in my G8. Works very well too). Terminator X wouldnt be a good option for the G8 due to emissions and CANBus crap.

Lets do the math... $2400 bucks NOT INCLUDING the E-sensor. Terminator X MAX is $1299 with trans control and can do EVERYTHING LISTED ABOVE. Comes with a wideband, harness, boost control, 2-step, E85 capability and a little display that you can monitor ALL operating parameters of the engine. If you run the factory ECM and youre not going to tune it yourself, you will need to pay someone to tune it. The Terminator X is indeed self tuning. I've used it and I like it. And Im 100% fluent with HP Tuners on GM and Mopar platforms.

Just my honest opinion. Oh... dont forget to add in the cost of a P01 (0411) or P59 ECM (My preferred factory ECM)

Oh yeah... Terminator X can do 3+ bar, E85 and REAL TIME TUNING. You CANNOT get that combination in ANY factory P01 or P59 ECM. The closest you can get is a P59 with 3 bar and flex fuel. Then you have to do a segment swap if you get a ECM set up with a 4L60E and you want to run a 4L80E. Complicated AF huh?

 

QwkTrip: As of right now I plan on using the 245cc AFR LS1 style, cathedral port heads due to the fact that they are available in a 73cc combustion chamber to reduce overall compression. I am hoping that the larger displacement of the engine and higher flowing cylinder heads will make more power at a lower boost level, reducing the amount of 1:1 fuel pressure rise required at max power. As far as the intake is concerned, I have not decided. I researched some stuff and found out that shorter intake runners tend to make more peak horsepower, but the longer runner design sacrifices top end and peak power for much more midrange power throughout the entire curve. Maybe a higher flowing longer runner can still make a decent HP number up top with enough air getting pushed in via the Procharger?

scooter: Not trying to cheap out at all. These were the parts that were recommended to me and I was simply trying to validate those recommendations with real world use...i.e. if a bunch of people here had used them and said they were crap then I would probably steer clear. My initial thought was to use the FAST XFI 2.0 but I also looked at the Holley setups too. Just so hard to make a decision...analysis paralysis...lol.

JAYDUBB: Let me address your queries in the order in which they appear...
May I ask the reason why you want to use the factory style harness?...I don't necessarily WANT to use the factory harness, just what will work reliably and is easy to connect...
Do you want to tune it yourself?...No. I am fine with N/A engines, but a forced induction engine tune is soooo critical that I don't mind paying a professional tuner for their time and expertise...
As a tuner, I will say this. Unless you NEED to pass an OBDII scan to get thru emissions,.. No need for emissions here in FL...
I would lean to the Holley Terminator X...I have seriously considered that as an option...

In regards to your bullet points 1 through 6, I will say this. I hope that this engine will make the desired power output with 12-15 PSI of (intercooled) boost. Even if it doesn't, I am probably going to limit the maximum boost level to 18 pounds...maybe 20 and that's it. If I have to crank it up to 20 and she only makes 900 or 950, I will still take that as a win. I plan on using 93 octane pump gas so tuning for E85 is not a concern for me. I also will not need any sort of transmission control as I plan on using a Magnum T56 Transzilla from Rockland Standard Gear designed to handle (supposedly) 1000 horsepower/torque. All of my gauges are Auto Meter Pro Comp Ultra Lites with electric senders. I will have to replace my vacuum gauge with a vacuum/boost gauge, but I would like all of my gauges to be functional so I will not be reliant upon the engine control to display gauge readings.
If you can think of anything else, let me know. So far you have all been a world of help. There is just so much information to sift through and I don't want to make a bad decision.
Thanks again!

 

Oh, man, I don't know much about the big inch cathedral combos. Maybe walk through this thread for some ideas. It's all n/a engines but air flow is air flow when it comes to heads and intake, and dividends are even bigger with boost.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...or-builds.html

 

You might be leaving some power on the table with those heads. They are killer, don't get me wrong but nothing beats an aftermarket LS7 head. Call Tony Mamo and he will help you select parts. You are looking at $25k to $30k for this motor by the way. Tony's stuff isn't cheap, but it is the best. If you go with cathedrals you'll likely want to go to a single plane intake, or a high rise sheet metal intake. The FAST and MSD intakes are excellent when ported, but will limit some power. You could also look at LS3 style rectangle port heads as well. There are plenty of scary heads for rectangle ports as well.

 

For a mild 1000 hp boosted combo you def dont need anything special for induction.

i would second a holley terminator x or hp system over 411 and custom harness. I been there done both lol holley is the way to go

 

Shifty: I am not worried about leaving power on the table. This will be a fun/nasty street car first and foremost and I honestly doubt that I will EVER see full traction and acceleration on the highway. Needless to say, I will look into the recommendations that you provided and see if there is any credence to running those over my initial choice. I would also like to point out that the short block will probably be coming from Shafiroff engines. I honestly don't have the time or the space to have even more engine parts scattered across my garage. I already have 2 camaros fully disassembled and parts are everywhere. The short block from Shafiroff is their Stage I short block, using a Dart LSNext. Can't remember if I am allowed to link to the page, but if so...

https://www.shafiroff.com/chevy-ls-p...ower-adder.php

Stage 1 is rated for 1200HP which is why I want to limit the output to 1000HP. I don't like running things to the ragged edge and would prefer to have some wiggle room so the internals aren't stressed out to the max. Longevity is of importance to me as well, especially for the money I plan on spending. Stage 1 is $7295. I will most likely add the deluxe short block package for the extra $1750 and ask if a Steve Morris hydraulic Stage 3 cam can be swapped out for the SSRE/Comp/UltraStreet cams that they normally use, unless they feel that there is a cam that will do a better job. Please know that I do not have anything LS related so I need EVERYTHING, harnesses, coils, intake, injectors, headers, balancer, oil pan, valve covers, timing covers, water pump, accessories, etc.

I also watched a video on YouTube recently from Richard Holdener where he does an LS intake shootout. As it sits right now, the dyno charts do show that I was somewhat correct in my initial thinking that the shorter runner design intakes make more peak HP and do so at a much higher RPM than I plan on running. Limiting the engine speed to say 6800 RPM means that a longer runner design is probably better suited for me, and out of all the intakes that I saw him test the FAST LSXR intake was the best performing unit. Lots of power (read torque) under the curve and carries that power across the whole powerband. Something that will likely be better suited to moving a heavy street car under boost. In the end though, I think Orr is correct. After all, if we assume that this 427 can make 1hp/cu. in then it should have no trouble making north of 450HP on its own. Theoretically, if you add 14.7 pounds of boost to double the air (and the appropriate doubling of the fuel) then it should make twice the power output, putting it at 900HP. A few more pounds may be just enough to get it to the 1000HP mark but with the efficiency of these LS engines I feel that it would probably surpass my expectations.

 

I understand the gauge concern. Holley has a slim digital dash that will do everything you need to do and more. Its actually pretty cool, especially with what you can do with it (logs, adjust/change tunes, etc). Check out "Trailer Park Motorsports" on YouTube. He just put one in his 91 or 92. Since youre running a manual trans, the standard Terminator X will work fine (only $999). As far as not relying on a display for gauge info (and the display is fast, trust me...), if something goes haywire while sending it with the factory ECM, you wont have any type of protection and by the time you see the gauges, it will be too late (trust me, you wont see it. Youll be paying attention to the road. LOL). Lose fuel pressure, lose oil pressure, BAD boost spike (wastegate failure, wastegate signal line failure, etc), overheat, etc. The P01 (0411) will let the engine keep on trucking. The TermX (shorthand... too many letters...LOL) can shut it down for protection. And it can control boost without having to buy a separate boost controller. And it has a built it wideband. Stuff you WILL NEED on a high-powered boosted engine.

 

JAYDUBB: I understand exactly what you mean. based on the fact that I won't need the transmission control, the Holley Terminator X only coming in at a $999 price point in very attractive and makes it seem almost silly to even attempt using a factory PCM and cobbled harness for engine control. Any benefits, besides price, to using this over something like the Holley HP EFI?
Also, I have no issue with the Terminator X having access to all of the critical engine information such as fuel pressure, oil pressure, etc. What I meant is that I already have a full compliment of gauges inside the car and would like to keep them. I will have to find a way to maybe splice the wiring between the gauges and the ECU so that the gauges (in the dash and on the pillar) will read the same information as the ECU does. Hopefully, it won't cause issues with the ECU.

 

If the gauges have their own sender thats fine. You can run sensors for the engine management separate. Thats how factory thirdgens were. But i get it, additional sensors and finding places to put them is another issue

nice thing about holley over oem pcm is the wideband correction and additional safety you can program in, like fuel pressure safety, oil pressure safety, etc. if something happens the ecm can save the motor. 0411 has iat temp corrections but holley is much more flexible in other usable areas for a boosted car imo.

 

1000 hp is going to be cake walk for that engine.

The one downside to the FAST LSX-R is it was made for maybe a 6L engine so you pretty much got to switch to mid-length runners with a 427 or the engine will peak pretty early. You'll lose some mid-range torque but it doesn't matter because you'll make torque by accident with that engine.

​​​​​​Not sure if it is made in cathedral port, but the LSX RT might be a better match. Probably won't clear a stock hood though. Again, not sure how those multi-piece composite intakes hold boost.

If hood clearance is not a problem then I'd look seriously at some of the carb type intakes (with multiport EFI)

 

It's money well spent to let Tony Mamo (MamoMotorsports.com) port those heads. There's probably nobody that can do a better port for a street engine than Tony. He's one of the fathers of the AFR design anyway. What makes him so good is he gets huge flow numbers from moderately sized ports. He'll increase your throttle response and make more power with less boost. Engine will run cooler and last longer, and be less prone to detonation. It's a win-win-win.

Just be careful though, he's also a master at upselling! LOL!