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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
So from the beginning, 2001 5.3 backed up to a th350.
Holley Terminator X stand alone management system.
Searched and searched through sites for weeks on how I can strip down 86 Camaro C100 harness.
Went through the pin outs, removed factory ecm., harness etc.
So now we are caught up, seem to have all electrical in the car, flashers, turn signals, head lights, courtesy lights, rear hatch pull down etc.
Turn the key and no starter crank, not even power to the purple wire.
Power to the starter relay? Try backtracking to figure out where you have power and where it stops. I’m no electrical expert by any means but that’s how I have figured out my electrical issues, looking through wiring diagrams and back tracking with a test light or voltmeter
Last edited by camarorsssss; Aug 17, 2021 at 08:31 PM.
The Car is an 86 originally with an Automatic-Transmission?
Which Engine came in the Car?
There is no Relay used in the Early version of this Circuit...
Ignition-Switch to NSS, to C100, to Starter-Motor.
Is the original Neutral Safety Switch connected to anything... with the THM350 swap?
Look to see if a 10AWG Yellow Wire and a 10AWG Purple Wire are Jumped together.
I am also using the Terminator in my car, the car will not crank unless the shifter in the the park position. All of my starter/starter signal wires come from the bulkhead connector in the drivers side corner of the engine bay, im pretty sure thats the c100. Either way you should only need one or two wires from there. They are the only thicker gauge wires coming out of that connector. Get under your dash and pull down your fuse box, find the ones that say start or crank, and follow them into the engine bay. Hook them up to your starter and be happy! When I get home today I can check my setup out and report back.
I too had no crank on first startup, my wires were switched FWIW.
If any of you have a Bussed Electrical Center (Fuse Panel) with a 3A Crank Fuse...
This is not a Fuse for the 10AWG Purple Wire from the Neutral-Safety Switch to the Starter-Motor Solenoid.
It is 12v+ from that source to power other Circuits during "cranking"...
Such as the "Cold-Start"/ 9th Fuel-Injector on early-TPI Engines, or power to later PCMs.
A 3A fuse would fail/ pop if used as a safety for the Starter-Motor Solenoid.
To repeat myself; early cars had no Fuse, no Relay...
Just a simple circuit through two Switches (Ignition and Neutral Safety).
Later cars did use a Relay as an additional interrupt, as part of the VAT-System.
In general, GM was not using Relays as commonly as seen today.
GM was still using Switches that could actually carry a Load (like the P.E.D. had been doing for decades).
One of the reasons to use a Relay is to switch a Circuit with a Switch that can NOT carry a Load (or a Load as high as the Powered component requires).
This way a 150A Circuit could be switched by a Switch that can ONLY handle 5A.
For example, our cars still used Head-Lamp Switches that actually carry/ pass the Load (High Amperage) of the Head-Lamps (and not use a Relay).
Even the early Fog-Lamp Circuits used a Switch that carried the Load of the Fog-Lamps.
GM could have used a Relay; and used a Switch that did not have to carry the Load of the Fog-Lamps...
And YES! ...GM did use a Fog-Lamp Relay...
However, the Relay was to create control over when the Fog-Lamps could be powered.
The Relay altered the Circuit so that the Head-Lamp Switch needed to be ON in order for the Fog-Lamps to be ON.
Also so that the Fog-Lamps could NOT be ON, when the High-Beam Head-Lamps were ON.
Okay Gents, my bad. I was way over thinking this situation the whole time. Unfortunately way to much researching and had data overload.
Was worried so much about VATS, security etc.
You were completely correct Vorteciroc, neutral safety switch, previous owner hacked the wires, taped them up really good, thought it had to do with the radio.
Thank you for planting me firmly back on the ground, I really appreciate all the help.
I wish I understood what overwhelms people with simple DC Automotive Wiring...
Probably just a lack of understanding of basic circuitry, and an inability to see---and then troubleshoot--- a given circuit in the car to the exclusion all the others. Those who lack experience may view a car's wiring diagram and the associated harnesses as some sort of black magic. And as far as this particular forum goes, not owning a FSM greatly contributes to the problem for most posters.
Probably just a lack of understanding of basic circuitry, and an inability to see---and then troubleshoot--- a given circuit in the car to the exclusion all the others. Those who lack experience may view a car's wiring diagram and the associated harnesses as some sort of black magic. And as far as this particular forum goes, not owning a FSM greatly contributes to the problem for most posters.
Yes for us non-sparkies sometimes the simplest of things such as obtaining good grounds can be very challenging. I have let the smoke out more times than I care to remember. Keep doing it, pay attention to these forums, and ask questions in them and the tasks do get a little less daunting.
A factory service manual for the model and year car you are working on is a must-have.
I knew what FSM stood for, LOL.
I was asking where the abbreviation came from, since it is not a GM term.
Since it seems I'm constantly recommending new posters here to find and buy one, I simply shortened the three words down to the abbreviation. I have no idea if gm had ever done so.
Used to be that all the paperwork that came with every new gm vehicle included an application to purchase all the service and assembly manuals directly from Helms. That made it very easy to obtain all that stuff straight from the company that printed it; just check off a few boxes on the application, and put it in the included return envelope along with a check.. Bought the FSM for a new 1990 S10 and later, for a 2003 ZR2 S10. Somewhere along the line, this practice must have stopped; the 2018 Silverado I bought new didn't come with any such offer.
Last edited by ironwill; Aug 22, 2021 at 08:12 AM.
Since it seems I'm constantly recommending new posters here to find and buy one, I simply shortened the three words down to the abbreviation. I have no idea if gm had ever done so.
Used to be that all the paperwork that came with every new gm vehicle included an application to purchase all the service and assembly manuals directly from Helms. That made it very easy to obtain all that stuff straight from the company that printed it; just check off a few boxes on the application, and put it in the included return envelope along with a check.. Bought the FSM for a new 1990 S10 and later, for a 2003 ZR2 S10. Somewhere along the line, this practice must have stopped; the 2018 Silverado I bought new didn't come with any such offer.
Back 20 or more years ago the manufacturers knew a certain percentage of their buyers could actually use that info, VS today where it's automatically assumed that the buyer has no reason to need it. Sadly, I'd bet a very high percentage of today's car owners/drivers have no clue about even the most basic of the functions going on in the machine they're operating, much less the complexities of what's going in in the FSM .
Back 20 or more years ago the manufacturers knew a certain percentage of their buyers could actually use that info, VS today where it's automatically assumed that the buyer has no reason to need it. Sadly, I'd bet a very high percentage of today's car owners/drivers have no clue about even the most basic of the functions going on in the machine they're operating, much less the complexities of what's going in in the FSM .
^^^^Quoted For Truth.
While 3rd gens are relatively simple to troubleshoot, having only the one ECM, today's vehicles have multiple control modules scattered all over/under them. Even using the required high-$$$ scan tool, the technician often only receives a basic idea of where to start looking for a given problem.
GM decided in 2012 that all printed (Service) documentation would be discontinued (Helm nor anyone else prints documents for GM anymore).
All GM documentation (post 2012) is only available digitally.
GM decided in 2012 that all printed (Service) documentation would be discontinued (Helm nor anyone else prints documents for GM anymore).
All GM documentation (post 2012) is only available digitally.
In 2012/ 2013, I went around to many of the different GM Dealerships in the area that I was living in...
All of the Dealerships were throwing away hundreds of thousands of Dollars worth of Service-Manual Books!!!
Every Dealership that I stopped at, had huge dumpsters filled-up with Books...
Hundreds of Books (everything from 1980 to 2012 for every Model Vehicle) thrown away!
To this day; I simply can NOT believe how much Money that the Dealers were forced to spend on Books...
Just to throw them all away!
It was absolutely CRAZY!!!
I took any Books that I owned Vehicles for.
In 2012/ 2013, I went around to many of the different GM Dealerships in the area that I was living in...
All of the Dealerships were throwing away hundreds of thousands of Dollars worth of Service-Manual Books!!!
Every Dealership that I stopped at, had huge dumpsters filled-up with Books...
Hundreds of Books (everything from 1980 to 2012 for every Model Vehicle) thrown away!
To this day; I simply can NOT believe how much Money that the Dealers were forced to spend on Books...
Just to throw them all away!
It was absolutely CRAZY!!!
I took any Books that I owned Vehicles for.
For my IROC, as well as the aforementioned two pickup trucks, the Helms manuals cost me around $130 each, retail (a bargain, even at full price). Even with a quantity discount, dealers no doubt had thousands of $$$ invested in print material. Now, subscription services on the interwebz have replaced that for newer vehicles.
But still, to throw all that material away..............................smh.
For my IROC, as well as the aforementioned two pickup trucks, the Helms manuals cost me around $130 each, retail (a bargain, even at full price). Even with a quantity discount, dealers no doubt had thousands of $$$ invested in print material. Now, subscription services on the interwebz have replaced that for newer vehicles.
But still, to throw all that material away..............................smh.
Absolutely!
For a long time, Helm Inc had "New Old Stock" Service Manuals available for many, many vehicles...
and were very affordable compared to what the Dealers were forced to pay, when the Books were New.
$130 each is great for a Third-Gen Book!
A Dealer would have paid about $700 to $800 for that Book, when it was New.
