i think this is chuck's..i just decided to photoshop it a litte, what do you guys think
[img/]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1752146&a=13497074&p=52184861&Sequence=0&[img]

 

[img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1752146&a=13497074&p=52184861&Sequence=0&[img/]

 

i cant remember how to do it..heres the address
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...61&Sequence=0&

 

No photo no workie
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Red 1991 Z/28 350TPI
minor mods:MAC exhaust,headers,,K&N filters and others possibly(bought used).
John Soule' member of the GULFSOUTH FIREBIRD/CAMARO CLUB (NEW ORLEANS) and WORLDWIDE CAMARO ASSOCIATION
Meguiar's wax!

[This message has been edited by 91Zman (edited July 26, 2001).]

 

all I have to say is, kinda freaky looking.

*and guys use www.webshots.com for posting pics, it's the best I've seen.

 

ah! that reminds me of the movie the Matrix when those guys are interrogating him and they seal his mouth shut and put a bug in his gut

 

original, but on the other hand looks to much like a Firebird...........maybe a different shaped grille......?

 

I think it looks kinda weird, yet the more I look at it the more I like it. Yet its not probable because then there will be no way to get a suffiecient amount of air to the engine, at least not on MAF cars, unless they have something other than a stock set up.

 

wtf not enough air getting to the engine? DO YOU NOT SEE THE FOUR INCH COWL? jeez

 

I like those wheels what kind are those? Do they fit without adapters?

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1991 teal camaro RS rebuilt 96 350 marine motor, comp cam, accel ignition,8mm accel plugs and wires, flowtech headers, stock exhaust, and rear end. (2.73)

 

I love the lack of a roof, but I'll pass on the front end.

The wheels are ROH ZS wheels and are available in virtually any offset you desire, including the stock offset so that spacers would not be necessary.

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The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

hmm obviously you know nothing of proper engine cooling. that cowl indution will do nothing to cool the engine down

 

Camaro_Hunter_d......OEJ is right about cooling the engine with a 4 inch cowl. Heat just POURS out of there as well as air getting in much better. I took the plate away from my teardrop hood and it ran so much better because heat can ESCAPE better. Besides, I don't even think they use the front grille to cool the engine on a Camaro, it usually comes from under the front ground effect (much like a T/A does). Just give OEJ props on his post, he was correct.

-ws6formula-

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1989 Pontiac Formula WS6
69,000 miles.
------------------------
305 TBI, 4.10 gears, SLP Zexel/Torsen Limited Slip Differential, 700r4 Corvette Servo, LT4 Hot Cam/Valvesprings, GM Aluminum Driveshaft, 2700 RPM Stall, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold, Turbocity TB. Ran on 6-19-2001 again: UPDATED: 14.1 @ 97.68 mph. Dyno'd Bone Stock @ 172.6 rwhp, 266 ft-lbs. of rw-torque.

 

The cowl hood isn't there to cool the engine,but to pull in air for the open air filter on carbuerators and big block cars.That engine would burn up without a grill.

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Red 1991 Z/28 350TPI
1973 Camaro(project car)
John Soule' member of the GULFSOUTH FIREBIRD/CAMARO CLUB (NEW ORLEANS) and WORLDWIDE CAMARO ASSOCIATION

 

Umm, then why did my motor not get hot on my Formula, and I don't have a grille. It was still pretty warm, but taking out that plate in the cowl let heat escape through the slot. People usually take the hood seal off their cars for more cool air to enter the engine, thus cooling it off. What about on the Z28s, on the grille you have 2 foglights, and a plastic insert with a Z28 emblem...doesn't look like air is getting through there. But anyway....I didn't even say it's the main factor that keeps the engine cool, it just helps a lot if you have more openings for air to escape. What about some Bras for Camaros? Sometimes they make them so there is no opening for the grill. Or if they did, they put a strong mesh cover over the hole, that doesn't flow any air. The real big thing on keeping your engine cool is THE RADIATION SYSTEM. Yes, that's really what keeps your car running cool. Airflow barely helps, but don't put down my experimentation with my cowl; my car ran so much better (it didn't have the open element at the time.) after I did that. Ask other people with cowl hoods, and they will tell you great stories about the marvelous cowl hood.

 

Cowl is actually better than ram air. My uncle has worked with this crap all his life. The cowl has lower air pressure than the air going past it, so it acutally SUCKS IN the air. The ram air hoods, well the aerodynamics of the bumper usually psuh the air OVER the ram induction. It doesnt get as much as say, a giant induction hood like pro drags use. But it does benefit yes. But a cowl with a ram air box on the back would probably do better than a ram air box with a ram air hood. And yes heat just pours out. Ive noticed a 5-10 degree cooling after I took off my weather strip on the hood. But the downside of that is that my windows fog up easier :P

 

Burn up without a grille hahahaha.
Tell that to my Firebird, because it doesn't have a grille.
The only thing you know about cars is how to drive them, and I bet you don't even do that very well either.

 

cowl INDUCTION hoods are used to create a vacuum to force fresh cold air into the intake system. Period. They don't allow much hot air out(they might let the same amount as a factory hood but not much more). Afterall they are INDUCTION hoods. And I did not say that the engine would run hotter, OEJ said that it would help it keep it cooler, it won't.
Now what the cowl INDUCTION hoods will do is wash the engine in cooler air and may help with underhood temps a little. But with that intake of air going nowhere will do is increase the air going under the car and helping out the "lift" effect a high speed that our cars are famous for.(and the owner can probly attest to that being true)

How the engine stays cool is by the radiator. That little plastic thing under our cars foces air nto the radiator. With camaros that little opening DOES help a little at a decent speed.(especially since I do not have fog lights there) But the biggest thing that I have found that helps my car stay cool is a 160 thermo and a auxilary(perma cool)10 inch fan...

 

Umm, we were talking about underhood temps...what did you think we were talking about? Of course it won't cool the inside of the engine, but heat can pour out as well. See, heat rises, and if heat has no place to rise, it will trap itself inside. Then the engine will INDUCT hot air into the engine, and we all know that is bad for power. Did you notice that I said the Radiation system cools the motor. I was on the subject of underhood heat....I don't know about anyone else.

-ws6formula-

 

That grille would really suck for a TPI car with the "y-shaped" air intake. The open grille gives the intake lots of fresh air. Im not sure if it will hurt the engine temp but i do know that it wont help it any

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*1989 RS
*Red, Daytona Turbo fiberglass hood, chrome 16x8 IROC wheels
*355 CID
*TPI ported plenum, SLP siamesed runners, Edelbrock high flow intake
*Edelbrock TES Headers (getting SLP 1 3/4 this summer)
*Richmond 3.73, Auburn Posi
*Modded 700-R4, 2800 stall converter
*NO recent time slips.

 

hunter_d, no disrespect to ya man, but give it up. We gotcha on this one.

 

The nose doesn't look as good as stock. to plain.

 

Just my speculation, but, Tell ya what, Leave the front end without a grill and the car will not overheat. Remove the cowl and the car will still not overheat. It takes alot to overheat a car, such as a crappy radiator or a crappy fan. but i will tell you one thing I DO know for sure, the radiator can NOT cool down a big engine without some kind of induction method to pull air THROUGH the radiator. Ever notice our cars run real cold while driving, but when sitting they heat up real fast, then the FAN kicks on and temp drops like a rock...
While moving the Air dam pushes air through the radiator from under the car. DO NOT remove your air dam.
While NOT moving a fan is required, grill or no.

Hell give the car its grill, remove the hood for all I care. Remove the AIR DAM or the FAN and you can kiss your engine goodbye.

On another note, the better the radiator, the less need for airflow. Give a stock 305 camaro a 4-core radiator and you can remove anything you want, it wont overheat.

ON My 355 however, I need 2 electric fans, Air dam, cowl hood, 4-core radiator to keep it cool!! it runs colder than most stock camaros however... usually about 160 Deg F.

 

------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

 

actually I think it looks alot "cleaner" then stock. And does stand out.

And OEJ... just go away. I do not care WTF you say anymore. You have yet to prove me wrong on anything. You and people like you believe that anything you do to "modify" the exterior of the 3rd gen camaro is "rice", Beyond the hoods and ground effects. And to make the car look better in the owners eyes is all that matters, If you do not approve then just do yourself a favor and stay outta the thread so people will not start name calling. Now with that said I am completely done with your "purist rantings"...

Now as I said before the cowl will move air into the engine bay but at a price of forcing it under the car creating lift. Air cannot go 2 ways in the same space... Simple physics... a object cannot move in 2 oppisite ways at the same time. If air is comming in then it cannot go out the same space. It's just like if you put a nice smooth plate behind the radiator to the K brace frame it will create a vacuum and literally suck air out of the radiator and force in under the firewall and then under the car. Again creating lift, but "normal" lift as we know it with a stock hood. Now again removing the hood seal does the same thing as a induction hood.... And the same above rules apply.

Now if you have a 'bird with the fender exits and make them funtional it will draw the air out of the engine bay and pull it out to the side helping eliminate the lift effect. Now granted it will not eliminate the problem of lift because the vacuum is stronger to go under the car then beside simply because the vacuum is greater under the car.

Now with that said the firebird can be made to cool much better then the camaro that has these fender exits and the hood scoop thingys. A freind in VA Beach expaned the fender exits about 1 inch all the way around and made them funtional, then he took the Iroc/Z28 hood blsters(not the louvers) and adapted it to his hood and reversed the flow opening of them so the air moving over the hood will draw air out.(he made them funtional...he was an airframer for the navy so he could do anything body wise). But I think that mod would constitute it being "rice" by some people here even though it helped the car keep cool, but that would not matter huh??? but anyway the car looked bad A$$ and it was nothing but a stock 350TPI... with a 160 thermo that stayed at 175(the hottest it ever got standing still with fans on and with A/C on)

 

Iknow this isn't an appearance topic, but now that we're discussing it, I have a couple questions:

Every since I bought my formula I've been thinking about taking the plate off the hood scoop...but I wasn't so sure it would be that great of thing. Since the induction is so far away from the scoop I wouldn't think it would help induction at all. ws6formula89, what do you mean by "ran so much better" after taking off the plate? What did it help? Also, what about water getting in? There is a lot of electrical under the scoop.

Sorry for the lengthy question, but any help would be appreciated.

------------------
1988 Formula 350

-TES headers
-Edelbrock cat-back
-Accel 8mm wires
-Accel Electronic Super Coil
-K&N filter

 

Yeah umm dude. Heat is ENERGY. Heat is not air. Just for your reference anyway. Cowl hoods create a vaccuum in the engine bay thus drawing in air. Yes heat escapes out there too, and plus the cold air drawn in flushes it out. You sir are a moron.

 

Yeah, I had the Open Element, and it drew in nothing but the engine's hot air. Heat is negative for power, so I removed the plate to make it functional. I had cooler air, and heat can escape from the motor easier, thus more power. It was a really noticeable difference, but I would just get a ram-air-box from www.ramairbox.com , they seem to work much better than the Open Element. You won't feel much of a difference in power if you have the TBI snorkle assembly or TPI, but when you open the hood, it will be considerably cooler in there.

As for Camaro_Hunter_d, if heat doesn't escape from the cowl, then why do I see heat rising out? It's not air, but rather a heatwave.... I can also feel it with my hand too. Plus the underhood temp is so much cooler now. Energy is heat, heat rises. Air had nothing to do with our discussion, except for it getting in better. We never said it was heated air. We just said it was heat. It's not like we blatently said that it will blow hot air out of the engine. We just said heat can escape from there easier, as an energy form. Plus, another good thing about it is that it creates a sucking velocity, inducting cool air. Plus allows proper venting of underhood heat. Any physics guru can tell you that heat rises, and if heat has nowhere to go, it is trapped, or absorbed by conductors, such as metal, i.e., a hood/fenders.

-ws6formula-

[This message has been edited by ws6formula89 (edited August 01, 2001).]

 

haha puttin the technical smackdown on you now.

 

I agree with "kingtaling". The key is a good radiator system. I have the 305 setup he describes with the Daytona cowl and I have no overheating trouble. At idle the temp rises, once the car starts to move the temp lowers. The lower air dam is very critical as it forces air under he car and past the radiator. A working fan plus shroud is critical and the cowl creates an escape for this air. Most of this was confirmed by my local Chevy mechanic and thru experience with different hoods and rads. The 160 therm. is very important, especially in stop and go traffic.

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86 Camaro Black SS Coupe, T Tops, Flowmaster, Custom Paint, Dunlop Road Kings S/R tires, Wheel Country Directional Chrome Wheels,new charcoal & gray interior including seats and door panels, new carpet and headliner, complete front end suspension rebuild, new Valve seals, and more mods to come
http://www.angelfire.com/sports/niterider/86camaro.html
Morgan_Andre@hotmail.com