What minimum combos of HP, Tq, Stall, Gearing, etc have successfully pulled the wheels of a thirdgen?

I am just wondering if I'll be even close...
9.5" ACT stall w/ 2600 flash, 4.11 Spool 9", 10.5" ET Streets, 700r4, and an AFR 355 w/ 224/224 560/560 110 cam, full tubular rear suspension, airbag, sfc's

 

With good track prep, good sticky tires and lots of torque multiplication, a 300hp third gen could pull the front wheels. It's easier when you shave a LOT of weight off the front end since all third gens are nose heavy.

Your 3.06 first gear through 4.11 gears gives a 12.57:1 torque multiplication not counting the torque multiplier in the torque converter.

My 1.76 first geared powerglide through 4.56 gears only gives 8.02:1 torque multiplication. This season I've dropped to 4.30 gears so I've also dropped to 7.56:1. The car will feel like a dog off the start line with a slow 60' time but since it will allow me to bring my shift point down, I should run a quicker ET because I can shift at my peak hp instead of past it.

My 8" converter stalls at 5700 on the transbrake but I only launch at 4500.

 

My camaro picks up wheels every pass now. Not real high or for very long, but got pictures with daylight under tires. Though I did have to swap rears because it broke original rear. Put in Moser 9 inch.

28X10.5X15 M/T slicks on 15X10 wheels. 4.30 gears on spool. 11.4 CR 357 w/flattop pistons, Topline 50/200cc heads, 1-5/8 Hedman LT headers, 750 VS or D/P Holley, 230/.496 cam, 3500 stall, th-350 and no interior.

Adding a 6 point bar and jet extensions.

For suspension: lakewood 90/10 struts, stock springs all around, original rear shocks, air bags, boxed control arms, adjustable panhard rod, Poly trans/torque arm mount and all steel wheels. Front swaybar gone, rear still operational.

 

So from what I gather, I am pretty close. I might need some more stall. I make peak torque at 3000 rpm so 2600 isn't optimal. When you talk about torque multiplication, do you think since I have 12.57 that my high gearing helps to negate my low stall issue? I had a 3000 stall in at one time, but I grew tired of it on the street. The front swaybar will definetly have to leave during track time.

As far as rear suspension, I think I'm maxed out...
Hotchkis LCAs, Hotchkis Panhard, Spohn Torque Arm, Airbag, SSM Sfc's, Spohn Control Arm lowering brackets

As far as chassis stiffness, a cage would help for sure.. Should I be worried about chassis flex w/ just sfc's?

For weight savings up front, I still have everything including A/C. The only weight I've dropped would be from aluminum heads, aluminum waterpump, aluminum pullies, telstar skinnies and a rear mounted battery. Thanks!

 

The trouble with the 700R4 is that it's only really good as a street tranny. Although it has a very low first gear which will help get a heavy car off the line, the spread between the 1-2 shift is too far apart for drag racing. When you make that 1-2 shift, the rpms drop down too far and the engine needs to build back up to it's torque curve.

Converter stall should be around the peak torque of the engine. That way the converter slips at the lower rpms and allows the engine to quickly reach the rpms where it makes the most power.

 

Finally somebody else said it. I swear to frick'n g0d, if one more person asks why I didn't put a 700R4 in my TRACK car instead of the Th350 I swapped in, I'm gonna lay the smack down! :lala: In my girlfriends T/A the 700R4 kills 2nd gear even with 3.73s because its just too big of a jump. If you want steeper first gear, just getter steeper gears all together.

 

I know about the poor 1-2 shift in the 700s, but I just milk the heck out of 1st-- take it to 6700 rpm so that when it comes down, I'm still in power range. I'd rather deal with the problem that way instead of trying to drive to the track w/ 4.11s and a TH350. The trans decision has already been made-- lack of truck and trailer.

As far as steeper gears, I'm too steep already. If I run 120 mph on spray, I'll be letting off early. I would rather be running 3.70 or 3.89. But this extra gear got me thinking it will be possible to pull the wheels now..and hence this thread.

 

Of course the alternative to running the 700 tranny for the 2.75 low gear is simply put that gear in your TH350.

 

Sorrry to go a little offtopic but JMatlock88 did you weight your car? I'm curious about its weight cause I'd like to do the same things in the future, no fiberglass for me. Also what do you think the weight distribution would be with these mods?

 

OK. I have a true street car. i.e. has working a/c, cruise control, stereo with 2 12" subs in the hatch, power windows, steel hood etc. Car weighs 3680 with driver.

I can pull the tires off the ground if the track is prepped right. My best 60' so far is a 1.59 at island dragway in nj.

I run a 4.11 gear with the 700r4 because i cannot afford a truck trailer combo either. this car gets driven to the track (on pump gas, 94 octane) makes passes with slicks and then gets driven home. I also take the car out for cruises and hangouts.

So let this be proof that a normal street car in street trim can do it...it just takes the right engine combo, and a LOT of torque.

I do agree that the 1-2 shift does put the motor considerably lower in the power band. The way to overcome that is to shift high enough so that drop does not drop you out of the power band. a TH400 or a TH350 would be a better trans for racing, but the 700 can hang as long as it is done right and it is nice to have the overdrive.

By the way, this is a naturally aspirated (non-LS1) small block.

 

OK. I have a true street car. i.e. has working a/c, cruise control, stereo with 2 12" subs in the hatch, power windows, steel hood etc. Car weighs 3680 with driver.

I can pull the tires off the ground if the track is prepped right. My best 60' so far is a 1.59 at island dragway in nj.

I run a 4.11 gear with the 700r4 because i cannot afford a truck trailer combo either. this car gets driven to the track (on pump gas, 94 octane) makes passes with slicks and then gets driven home. I also take the car out for cruises and hangouts.

So let this be proof that a normal street car in street trim can do it...it just takes the right engine combo, and a LOT of torque.

I do agree that the 1-2 shift does put the motor considerably lower in the power band. The way to overcome that is to shift high enough so that drop does not drop you out of the power band. a TH400 or a TH350 would be a better trans for racing, but the 700 can hang as long as it is done right and it is nice to have the overdrive.

By the way, this is a naturally aspirated (non-LS1) small block.

 

Check out this car I always see at the track ...First note the ET on the window... not all that fast but this thing leaves the hole PERFECT ...So it doesnt take a buncha power just the right suspension / weight and a decent motor.

http://www.davemilcarek.net/032704/p...6-R3%20010.htm

 

Would it be possible with a manual transmission?

 

I don't normally spectate, but a couple of years ago an acquaintance gave me free tickets to the Mile High Nationals Thursday test day, when a bunch of stock class cars were doing time trials. A good lot of them pulled the front wheels, many of them who did were running 12's and 13's (it's an altitude thing). If you know anything about stock class racing (and Stephen definately does), you know why this is.

There is a bracket class at Bandimere called "King Street". Must have mufflers, DOT tires, working lights, and current registration. You have to run at least a 12.75 sec. to make the class (well, you can run, but the slowest you can dial is 12.75). Most of the cars run in the 11's or quicker; I'd say less than half of them pull the front tires, even with no tire slip at the line.

There's also a stick shift class at Bandimere. Have to leave off a clutch and pull a lever to shift. A good bunch of them pull the front tires off the line.

Lifting the front wheels is highly over-rated. Kinda like smokey burn-outs - good for crowd appeal, not much for going faster or winning races.

 

Those of us running stock run a whole bunch of gear/converter. Some guys have gone to the 2.92 low gear in the T200's in place of the stock 2.75. Converter stalls and rear gearing are generally pretty steep as well. But all of that is useless if the car simply doesn't work. There is a bunch of sorting time put into the front and rear suspensions, weight reductions (but each combo has a required minimum wt for whichever class it runs), tire choices, etc to make these cars work. It's not nearly as easy as it looks but I wouldn't give it up for anything.

 

I do admire the Stockers for what they do. All a bracket racer has to do is copy a lot of the simple ideas but they're not restricted to other stuff like a stocker is.

If I had a lot of money to go racing, I'd rather have a Comp Eliminator car myself. I just like the racing format better. Trouble is most Comp Eliminator cars are cubic dollars and the engines are just grenades waiting to explode. Go for something wierd and strange like a 4 cylinder dragster that runs 9's