I posted on the general engine board and had several lookers but no advice.

Check it out Motor combo thread

Thanks.

Oh yeah, Mods if you need to delete this and move the other post over here thats fine with me. I would just like some replies.

 

As long as your shortblock is in good shape I'd build ontop of that and save your pennies to doa 383 later...just upgrading these parts will make you happy for awhile and will be a good "transition" motor for you for when you build the power house stroker

I dont like the carb, never liked demons from all the things I've heard from shops with dynos's and I especially dont like the fact it's a VS...trying to go fast with a VS is like trying to go fast with a 2 barrel....dont buy that and upgrade to a nice DP and that increae itself will net a minimum .3

I dont like Comp Cams either, but the one you have is a nice mild street cam so it'll be nice for street driving.

I'm stuck on Edelbrock, Dart, or Brodix for intake choices, personally never seen a fast car in our area with anything but those 3 on top. I think a rpm dual plane or vic jr with spacer would be optimal and your goal should be attainable pending you get a convertor to match cam and gear/tire to match everything.

 

Thanks IHI for the advice.

As for the carb, I will have a choice of the demon or my holley 750 3310. I have done some work to the holley to get it to work/flow better. I removed the choke flap, installed a rear metering plate, notch float/w jet extensions and a Quickfuels adjustable secondarys.

As for the intake, I could chose the xcelerator which will not fit under my hood, or my Team-G street ram that is on my car now.

I know that a HP with a victor Jr would be optimal, but they may have to wait untill I do the 383.

Im buying the parts as a package deal. Its a really good deal for the price compared to the parts. Im even getting a new dist and msd 6al in with the deal. I will end up with extra parts.

Do you think I can get 12.50's out of this combo? I am running 3.73 gears with M/t 26" tall Indy profile tires. The trans will be a th350 with a transgo rebuild kit. I am also going with a 2800-3000 converter.

 

With the carb choices at hand I think if you dont hit you mark, that would be the very first thing I would swap. VS are a great daily driver carb, but for real performance NOTHING beats a DP, it's been proven too many times to count...I can tell with you complete honesty 8 of us now have swapped from VS carbs of various to 750-950HP series carbs and the slowest ET gain from any of the motors was .3 Motors ranged from relatively stock 355's to nice mild 327, some good running BBC's and even a mopor engine in there to boot...just no way a DP will ever keep up with a DP from the 60' on down the track.

You've got a nice mild cam, good gear/tire size to completment the convertor/cam and it's all tied together with a nice flowing set of heads....after final tune if your not at 12.50's, borrow and swap carbs to try a DP, if you dont net very much with carb then the intake is the culprit.

My final answer-sounds like a great combination that could use some tweaking once some extra play money comes your way...nice thing about the sbc is your investing for the future with parts if your sticking with a sbc

 

I have a friend running a 408 in a 72 nova and he switch to a 950 HP. It picked his car up quite a bit. After that, people at the track got rid of there Demons and Dominators and went to the HP's. So im all for a HP when funds permit.

The car is not a daily driver, but will only see the track maybe 1-2 weekends out of the month. I will be taking it out on the street some just for fun.(no street racing)

I have followed you car build up, And you have had some trial/error with parts. I guess thats racing. I always try to listen to people that have already been down that road. Saves alot of money by seeing other peoples mistakes. You found a good cam grinder that really works with you and your combo. That in is self means alot. Just like finding a shop that will build a good converter to match your combo.

Keep up the good work with your car, and I hope to see somemore of your timeslips in the upcomming season.


Oh yeah, The 083 heads are 64cc and the AFR heads are 68cc. Which head gasket should I use to keep from losing compression?

thanks

 

I would personally contact Fel-Pro and ask their advice on head gasket, they have alot more gaskets than you'll ever see in a speed magazine so they should/will have one that will work better in your application so you dont lose as much compression with the switch in chamber size. When I had my 210's checked out the chambers were actually 69cc, so my realistic compression 11.3:1, but 11.5 is just easier to round upto

No racing/car stuff for me this season with my personal car-will race the S-10 when the urge hits and pilot a few other cars as a stand in to keep points going for a few drivers that need to miss an event here or there. I've been waiting for my motor to go bye-bye for 2 years now so I can readdress and upgrade components to make working on it easier and expanding motor possibilites in the future so this down time is a long time coming. Sure you've read my sob story else where on these boards, but have been hitting the racing scene hard for 4 yrs and spent tens of thousands of dolllars trail and erroring parts, combinations, hotels, fuel, entry fees, etc...and this new house we bought did not have any out buildings so this summer is the year of the shop so long as my business stays busy...hard to say with the housing market, maybe new construct will simmer down and remodleing existing will pick up even more than it has been, business has been growing every year, but honetly I have'nt reinvested much back into it so been making up for that lately buying new equipment/tools/trucks and am going to put alot more into advertising this year as well.

Every year the track opened I get/got tunnel vision and prioritized racing first then my business second LOL!! but I aint gett'n no younger so need to invest for my future cuz race cars and cars in general will alwyas be there and so will race tracks and you can bet when I come back it'll be better than ever-I will hit 9's through the pipes and pump gas on small tires and prove to all the vetran racers AGAIN that a small tired car will keep up and beat them when the points are all said and done Gutted, track only cars taste like chicken

 

I will contact fel-pro to see what they have for me.


Hope thing go good for you and your business. This is the first time I have really had any money to sink into the motor. If it wasnt for a good friend giving me a great deal, I wouldnt be doing the build.

I understand about the point. My friend with the nova is thinking about entering the points this year. Im his pit crew, but he dosent have any backup drivers. His car does wheelies past the 60' mark and im not ready for that. lol.

Here is a pic of his car at our local track!!!
The front tires will clear the center wall most of the time.

 

Here is a thirdgen from our local track!

 

one more local thirdgen!!!

 

IHI, Is there much difference between the Holley 750 race HP and the Holley 750 street/strip HP?

Do you think the short version of the vic jr will fit under my stock camaro hood?

Thanks

 

Yes, there'a a big difference between stock and HP series carbs. obvious main body differences as well as metering block and air bleed designs as well. IMO well worth the price upgrade when going after everything you can get pwr wise.

I have no idea about the normal vic jr under a stock hood, but would seriously doubt it...seems you cant get anything performance applicated under a stock hood line since fenders as soo low in these cars. would think a 2" minimum cowl or whatever design would be the only way to really open options)

 

I have an RPM Air-Gap under my stock hood (with a 3" filter). My Vic. Jr is something like 8/10" shorter than the RPM.

 

Is the HP series ok for the street?

I was thinking of a 750 HP with a probillet Dist, maybe Vic Jr intake. I just dont think that the Vic Jr intake will match the comp xe282hr cam I was going to use. The Vic Jr has a rpm range of 3500-8000 and the cam is 2200-5800.

What do you think?

 

With a hydraulic roller, RPMs will be limited at the top end because of valve float. With that cam you might be better off with a performer RPM.

 

Right now, Im running a Weiand #7525 street ram Team-G. Its rpm range is 2000-6500. I had thought about running this intake with the cam. Add a 2800-3000 stall converter and my 3.73 gears and I should be close.

What do you guys think? Would the inake I have be better with the comp xe282hr cam?

 

FWIW, and I wish motor would have stayed together for me to get slips to back up my seat of the pants feel. on my 355 I went from a rpm air gap to the vic jr with 1" 4 hole spacer and could not tell any difference in low end tq/grunt but this thing pulled hard past the 6K mark...with the air gap it literally nosed over at 5500rpm.

The short runner of the vic and the 1"4 hole IMO is a very streetable combination, and all these rpm ranges you see advertised are just "idealistic" rpm windows, dont ever think what they're listing is exactly correct.

I've run my HP series on the street for the past 2 yrs and love it. Even with no choke starting in high 20 to low 30* weather only took about a minute of throttle feathering vefore it idled on it's own....ET finals and normal morning temps.

 

I think if you run only 12.50's with that motor you should immediately begin crying You shouldnt have a lot of trouble hitting 11.60-12.0's if everything is setup right and you're car has a few lbs dropped off it...

I think you should go with more convertor. Something in the 3500-4000RPM range if you want maximum performance. I'd recommend the converter I've been using its made by a company called Torco but its sold under Art Carr's name. Give 325-698-6673 a ring and try to talk to Mickey. He'll take down all your cars specs and get you a 9.5" convertor that stalls right where it needs to for $350. Cheaper than off-the-shelf brands, high quality, very effiecent and completely streetable. I have a friend running one in a car thats in the 10's and we're both completely happy...

If I listened to everything old folks told me I'da stayed clear of Demon carbs but I bought one anyway. Every motor its been on has immediately ran its fastest time on the first pass. From my dinky 350 to my friends 10 sec motor.... Maybe Barry Grant himself was working the assembly line the day mine was build but I wouldnt trade it for the anything. I dont think a vacuum secondary will cause you to lose a lot of ET maybe a tenth or two at most... if you already have the carb then use it.

 

This is where you'll be pleaseantly suprised and I have been on wagon ride personally and have seen more cars make the transition from VS to DP and the smallest ET increase I've ever heard of was .3

VS do not belong on any car that's truely trying to gofast. I know 57kid was a big proponent of VS and rodchester style carbs until he bolted on a DP and the results spoke for themselves. Just me switching from my old 750VS to a 830 DP on my old 355 was worth .4 and I also got alot of ribbing from all the guys mocking me for even buying a VS to begin with...live and learn but fast cars will never have a VS on top

But if the car is going to be mainly 90% street/daily driver a DP is a bad choice since they do like to dump fuel and the trade off for going slower is well worth the savings at the gas pump..especially nowadayz!!

 

I guess since I will have both carbs, why not just go to T&T one night and swap them out. Maybe get a few runs in with each. Sure would be interesting in the results.

IHI, What dist are you running? Does it have vac advance? How much timing you running?

 

Well guys, The motor is almost ready.

I had the heads milled, and we figured the compression will be about 10.3 to 1.

I got a rpm air-gap intake and a MSD pro-billit dist.

What kinda HP and track times do you think I will get? I didnt expect the compression to be as high, but should work with 92 octane. I figure it should be a strong street motor.

What do you guys think?

 

I'm running the same dizzy, just the standard pro billet with a different curve installed...cant remember what springs we installed though. I've never ever timed an engine at an idle, I want to know what it's doing at full advance so any timing adjustiments are done at 3500rpm minimum so it's all in and I can set it. Then I'll hold it at 4-4500 after everything is tightened down to verify it's rock steady on the mark I set it at. I found the best performance at 35* total, lost a little in the 60' but it liked it more on the top end...and any higher than 35* and I was going red so that was the other factor.

Your plenty good for pump gas, aluminum heads alone are typically accepted to drop compression by 1 point due to it's great ability to disperse heat, then any cam over 240* duration actual @ 0.50 you start losing a little compression due to overlap...all which is how I can run 92 octane all day long and had fastest pass on 92 octane...I just shose to run 110* cuz it smells alot better in the lanes warming up the car and I also run the set up VERY lean to make it more consistant and I need to cover my azz so it does'nt preignite due to that fact.

hp is anybodies guess, more of an ego stroking thing when your told you'll make 4-600hp, but in reality you can build 2 identical motors and one will make more than the other. Hopefully you can go out with no problems and nail down the tune quickly and come back here with some good numbers

Josh

 

I figure the timing will be somewere around 34*-38*. I will just have to see what works.

I know the hp thing is overrated. All that matter is whats on the board at the end of the track.

Our track opens march 11, but I still have to build the trans and get everything in. Hopefully by april, I will have some time slips.

Im hoping for at least mid to high 12's. Anything more will be a bonus.

Oh yeah, what do you think of M/T's new drag radial?

 

I agree, I heard all kinds of things about Demon carbs when I bought one. My first Demon was a 650 cfm Speed Demon with mech. secondaries. Picked up huge ET and mph over my old 600 cfm Edelbrock (big surprise ). A guy I know ran my 650 Speed Demon back to back with a 650 Double pumper and the Demon put his car in the 12.3's whereas his previous best with the Holley was 12.5's.

My second Demon was a 750 cfm Speed Demon, I loved that carb too.

 

I'm sure if you dig around you'll find more than one post with my opinon on those things. They work great for under powered cars in stock form, anything above that you will need a timing retard to soften the hit to the tires so you can get CONSISTANT 60's EVERY PASS-within .01 per pass and maybe vary .02 all day in the 60'

For the money you'll get longer life and alot better traction using tried and true bais ply wrinkle wall slicks. For 4+ yrs I have never had a radial tire on my car, it's always been slicks or cheater slicks. When I first started racing I could street drive all summer AND race every points race-tires would last all year when I was running high 12's.

I dont hold radial tires in very high regard, but i also have a bracket racer mentality so when ANY number other than R/T changes on a timeslip I get bent out of shape...I want them to look like they were made on a zerox machine....radial slicks will not do that-period.

 

I have am running M/T Indy profile SS tires. They seem to work fine at the track with about 20psi in them. I guess I will have to see how the new motor does with them. Maybe I should go to the M/T sportsman pros or a Hoosier version.

 

The sportsman or comparable hoosier tire are just as bad if not worse than what your already running, the compound is way to hard for hooking up on a race track-you will spin the tires consistantly guarunteed. Might just be the cars I've seen try run over the years on sportsmans but have'nt a one hooked up yet-no exageration.

Just get some extra rims and a set of real slicks DOT or full slick it wont matter, just dont buy into the radial tire hype if your looking for "consistant" traction-especially now since your stepping it up a notch in the pwr dept. otherwise your just going to be chasisng your tail and not hacving as much fun. hard to see if any tuning gains are helping/hurting when you cant even make the car drive the same every pass..not to mention it can be unsafe as well since race tracks are literally like skating rinks when using anything but a tire designed for a race track-once you break traction you/your car can end up anywhere and it happens quicker than I think most on these boards realize.

 

Looks like I will have to pic up a extra set of rims and some dot's.

I can swap them out at home and drive to the track. Just about 15 miles away. The last time at the track my 60ft times were around 2.07. That is with the stock converter leaving the line a 1200 rpm.

I have some LCA relocation brackets and new torque arm bushing that I need to install. I also need to remove my front swaybar. I will be losing some weight off the front with the new motor also. The car does transfer weight good.

With the M/T's I had bad wheel hop with 25 psi in them. I went down to 20 psi and the worked fine. That is with the other motor and the 700r4.

 

I hear ya, when I first went out I started on some $35 Mastercraft 235/60-15 radials, found best traction for those was a heck of a burnout and 18psi before rolling into the water box and with my relocation brackets was able to get as low as 1.94 60's.

So long as it is'nt raining slicks of either type (full or DOT) dont mind street driving, when I drive around town I always pump them upto 20 psi so they're good and stiff and they handle just fine. We have a large curve bridge on the interstate and in my truck at 65 it's scarier with the body roll than it is in my car with slicks at 75mph. Only thing I worry about on the street is running over nails/screws-other than that I've done it for soo long on soo many sets it's just second nature to me-the piece of mind knkowing I can hook alomost 100% on any given street/track makes me happy as well.

Also-dont mix up weight transfer with traction either. I'm sure you've rad a few other posts about the anti squat and instant center so I wont go there unless you need a refresher but nutshell-squating is bad since it's actually lifting tires off the ground-but too much lift is also bad as it can over power the tires. Right now if you go bais ply neither will be of any concern to you.

Josh

 

Thanks for the advice with the weight transfer. I have worn out springs and shocks on the back and front. I also have stock LCA's and panhard bar. What do you suggest?

Maybe some soft 50/50 rear shocks?

 

In all honesty, what you have now is fine. I raced for 2 yrs on all stock 120,000 mile suspension pieces other than the addition of LCA relocation brackets and the car was pretty consistant in the low to mid 1.7 area back then. If you were going for bracket class racing and playing with serious hitter every weekend it would be a different story, but right now you have a new combination to sort out so just focus on that right now, then once you have that worked out you can start the suspension upgrades...unless you have ample free money right now and what to do the suspenion? then I can offer some suggestions based off what I've learned.

I'm pretty low buck on the suspension other than the rear anti roll bar (just over $1200) and the car is very consistant-not as tunable as it coudl be with the big buck pieces, but it works none the less as is. I did'nt want to get too extreme since it is a street car that gets driven and the high dollar shocks are'nt typically as bullet proof to constant cycling for long periods of time-I dont plan on replacing them anytime soon is what I mean by that so I wanted somthing with less valving internally to go bad.

 

I may try to get some lakewood lca's and may box my torque arm while its off. Advanced auto sells cheap shocks. You just have to look in the book for the rate. Should be able to get some cheap ones at 50/50 for around $15-$20 each.