last fall i went to the local dragstrip to see what my car would do. its a 82 camaro with a 327 (1968),700r4, headman headers, edelbrock intake and carb (600), k&n, etc. motive gear 4.10 with eaton posi, lakewood control arms and jegster subframe connectors....

long story short....it ran 14.8 ... 14.9 at 92 mph consistanly 5 times

it would leave great...shift 1st and 2nd and keep with all but as soon as i got to third gear..i lost everything it seemed like

i been busy over the winter...i pulled the trans installed a b&m 2400 holeshot covertor, transgo shift kit with corvette servo piston...hopefully it does better...
what do you guys think it should run or have any of you had a similar problem?

 

need a little more info about the engine.

Should help you some though!

 

I ran 15.21 @ 90 mph with my old 305, seems like the number you got out of the 327 is about all it had at the time. You might drop a tenth or two after the converter and trans changes.

 

First of all, don't expect a whole lot from a small displacement engine. Even in 1968 if a car ran high 14's it was considered fast. The real muscle cars of the day only ran 13's.

A loss of power in high gear sounds like a fuel issue. Not enough fuel getting to the carb.

 

dont feel bad i spent almost 2 grand on heads,cam,and exhaust and only did 14.9 dont know how much having a 190 lb passenger affects your time though maybe .1? my car seems to lose everything after 3rd goes in also. i think its the gears i have 273 stock.no converter to match cam either.

 

what did the entire timeslip look like?

 

Isn't that alot of gear for that combination?

 

Along with the 700R4s stout first gear ratio it is!! With that transmission, a 3.08 would be a better choice, IMHO.

 

i personally like running 3.73's with the 700R4. helps with the nasty 1-2 rpm drop

 

to what rpm does the engine drop to with 373gears on 700r4 after 1-2? and what are the rpms at 60?

 

i run around 2500rpms or so on the 4 lane at 70ish mph

 

The 700R4 is a great street tranny but the poor gear ratios make it a poor race tranny. The 1-2 shift at part throttle is fine. It's that wide 1-2 shift at WOT that causes problems. The gear spread is too far apart. At WOT when the tranny does the 1-2 shift, the rpms drop down below the powerband and you suffer in performance because of it. A transmission with a closer gear ratio is better for WOT performance. The 200-4R still has the overdrive if you feel you need it and has gear ratios closer to a TH350. If you don't need an OD, a TH350 or TH400 is a better choice.

I use a powerglide so I only need to do one shift. My converter stalls at 6000 rpm. I shift at 7400 and the rpms only drop to 6400. If the rpms dropped too much, the engine would struggle briefly as the rpms get back up into the powerband.

 

The stockish converters SUCK for the 700r4, get a 3,000 stall atleast!! A 3,000 rpm stall would allow you to shift at 5,500 and still recover at over 4,000 rpm, even on the 1-2 shift.

The 700r4 has the same 1-2 spread as my 545RFE in my 06 Dodge Ram. My 4.7 powered ram has seen a 15.6 @ 88 1/4 mile pass, despite having 3.55 gears and 32" tall tires. Weighs 5,500 lbs. Thats a 287 CID STOCK INTERNAL engine. That 327 should run ALOT quicker than a 14.8. I expect to get into the 14s with the 3,400 rpm Circle D converter I have and 4.56 gears. I know of another 02 4.7 Ram owner that dropped 3 tenths going from a 2,000 rpm stock converter to a 2,800 stall.


CONVERTER AND GEAR are HUGE.....Nicholas with 17" wheels/shorter tires, 4.56 gears, 2,800 stall, and 400 lbs less only has me by 3 mph when he traps in the 1/4, but has nearly 1 full second on me.


My stock stalled, tall geared, PIG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmE3qRAtaXc

Nicholas' truck.....Notice how his converter lets him stay over 4,000 rpm almost the whole race despite shifting at 5,200.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCpZ-y6RMY

 

i'm gonna say go with a 3500ish stall to help off the line. what were the 60ft times like? get your fuel issues figured out and it'll pick up some

 

it is not a great power house...but it is a 327 from 1968 (2 bolt) stock everything...been rebuilt as far as i know. heads are from mid 70's 76cc. intake is a edelbrock performer. carb is a edelbrock 600cfm. k&n air filters,flex-a-lite fan.headman shortys..with flowmaster exhaust, beefed up hei with recurve kit (silver springs i believe i but in) mallory coil, msd 6a ignition.

 

how would i go about fixing the fuel issue...i mean i goes...just doens't seem to want to pull or go faster...turn up the carb air/fuel screws. i have a edelbrock 600cfm carb

 

best time slip is : 60ft 2.11/ 330ft 6.10/ et @ 594 ft 8.87/ 1/8 et 9.5/ 1.8mph 72.22/ 100ft 12.34/ 14.80 @93.02 this is my best time i got that day with poor reaction time of .62 (my 2nd pass ever) by the way i was manually shifting that day....i set up my shift kit for automatic instead ov manual over winter

 

What are you going for? Street Car or Strip car? If your wanting a strip car buy a 3500 stall. Turn up your fuel pressure, buy a guage if you don't have one. Pull out #1 plug after a run, is it rich, lean? Whats your timing at?

 

i am going for a decent running street car 13's atleast. fuel pressure is a stock fuel pump...there is no way that i am aware of turning it up. should i buy a new pump or something. i can turn up the idle and fuel screws but what you guys are saying is that fuel pump is not keeping up, so thats what and why it won't accelerate.

 

Fuel pump is probably fine. This isn't a race engine you have, it's a very mild 327. I'm sure you don't need more fuel. If this is a stock or VERY mildly cammed 327 with stock 70's heads, you'r not going to do much better than mid 14's. That engine is probably making 250-260 HP on a good day with your said mods.

Put a cam in the .470 lift range at a 110 LSA and maybe some better heads, as well as the stall converter and you will most deffinately have a mid to low 13 car that will still drive nice on the street.

My old 305 TPI with a .464, .470 cam and bolt ons did 14.0 at 99 mph. I had a 5 speed manual and 3.27 gears.

Best of luck!

 

60ft 2.11

Well there is half the problem.
For every tenth you take off the 60ft is twice at the end sometimes three.
So you take a tenth off at the 60ft you take 2 tenths off your et.

For a car with 4.10 gears that 60ft is shameful.
My Balt is FWD and pulls a 2.2 60 foot launching at 1800 rpms and only running 75% throttle through first gear (due to wheel spin and short first gear).
My buddies 98 T/A with 3.32 gears pulls 1.7 60 foots launching at 2600 rpm.

The 60 is critical.
With 4.10 gears and a good set of tires and propper launching technique you should get a 1.7 to 1.9 60.

Lets say you pull the 1.7 60ft.
Your time was a 14.8 with a 2.1 60

2.1 - 1.7 = .4

.4 X 2 = .8

14.8 - .8 = 14 second run flat.

So already we've almost improved a whole second.

Also checking the calculations with a 4.10 gear in a 700r4 crossing the 1/4 mile time at 92 mphs means you were at 4900 rpms what is your shift point? You may be dragging the shift out to long in first and second gear thats it going out of the power band because with 4.10 gears you should be pulling shifts off pretty quick and staying up in the power band. What cam do you have in the block?
The cam largely determines where your power band is. Thats the area you want to stay in and as the power band ends run maybe 200 to 300 rpm more than when it ends before you shift so on the rpm drop the power drops to where its back in the band again.

So what rpm are you shifting at?
What tires are you running?
What is your launch rpm at the light?

Please post the answers so we can try to see where your losing your ground.
Hope this helps you.

 

well thank you for the advise! you never know unless you ask or do it yourself. i will consider what you said and that sounds like a good project for me to do in the near future.

 

thanks, this info is helpful. this was my first time to the dragway. like i said i just wanted to have a nice street car in the 13's atleast..to keep up with all these mustangs and to be faster than these ricers... i drove it manually and did leave at the light from a idle so 1100 rpm i shifted high in the rpms....after reading...way to long...i was 5500-6000rpm. i did this in every gear and i believe finished in 3rd gear. so that is half my problem. i did buy a 2400 holeshot covertor and a transgo shiftkit with a corvette servo which i set up the shift kit for 3rd gear (automatic, and when you want 4th then shift to 4th and 3rd go back to 3rd per instructions). the tires i am running are just a street tire kumho esta supra 212 245/45zr17,as far as the cam i am not sure what the duration is but it does have a little lope to it so i would say a mild cam at best.thanks for the info and giving me ideas on what to do, i appriciate it.

 

Anytime! Also what the guy after me said, the 60ft is big in a 1/4 mile race. Get some sticky tires and get that 60ft down in the 1.7-1.8 range and you will save good time up top. It is true that for every .1 you save in the 60, you save .2 at the end.

If I had to put them in order, I'd say do the cam and stall (2800 or so), as heads are not cheap. Those alone should net you in the 13's.

 

No Prob always here to help.

The 1100 rpm launch is killing you.
You want to leave the hole as hard as you can with out spinning.
Going into 4th gear on a drag strip is pointless as the true purpose a built track car is to end the 1/4 mile just as it's about to be shifted into 4th gear. Now for a top speed car you'll definitly want to have a 4th gear. But in reagrds to only three gears on a dragstrip. That way you have gotten everything possible out of the cars power band and thier is no waste in shift time which is a point when no power is going to the ground as the car shifts gears.

If your shifting around 5500 to 6000 rpm then your best would to be to cross the 1/4 mile point at 5500 rpms which in your geared car is 103 mph. But since your not your ending it at 4900 rpms at 93 mph your leaving 600 rpms on the table that didn't get to be used. So if your manual shifting lets correct the shift points. You want to end the 1/4 as your getting ready to shift to 4th gear.

So by shifting at 5200 rpms these are the speeds dependent on the gear your in:

Gear Speed RPM / Speed RPM

1st 32mph 5200 / 36mph 6000

2nd 60mph 5200 / 69mph 6000

3rd 98mph 5200 / 103mph 6000


So by shifting at 5200 your losing 3mph in first gear 9 in second gear and 5 mph in third.

But remember your not ending the 1/4 at 6000 your ending it at 4900.
So by shifting sooner which keeps you in your power band since your car sounds like its got a torquer cam so low rpm range your holding your power band. And to make it make alittle more since think about how long it takes to go from 5000 rpm to 6000 rpm. Seems like a while as the engine is overcoming the aerodynamic resistance on the car to push it through that level. Instead of holding that time to get to 6k rpm shift at 5200 so your back in the power band putting the most of the engines power to the ground instead of wasting time to get 6k when your not making your best power anyways.

 

thanks again. i just installed a B&M holeshot 2400 stall convertor (2500stall) with a transgo shift kit with corvette servo. so next i will work on a cam like you said, thanks for the help....i am currently getting it repainted so i will have to wait on the cam for now but def will get one in the 4.70 range like you said

 

you are making perfect sense. i could be in the low 14s or high 13 i just need to work on my driving style. so since i set up the shift kit for auto i don't have to worry about me shifting at the wrong times. so get some sticky tires, hold that throttle at 2400rpm then floor it leaving it in 3rd gear (drive) and it should just want to shift into 4th accross the line.so its not a fuel issue its just all the motors got and i need to learn how to make the most out of it....

 

The OP's engine is almost a carbon copy of what i pulled out of my 89 a few weeks ago. With a stock stall, 700R4 and 3.42 rear it was a dog. whitedevilTA's power estimate is on the money.



throw on some better heads and 13's will be no problem.


mh82camaro. how was the install on that shift kit? I'm going to do mine in a few weeks.. same kit.

 

Exactly!
Thats what makes drag racing fun.
Finding out the best combo to get what your looking for.
Practice, Practice, Pratice. The more you learn what your car likes the better you become at running it. Good Luck!

 

You need to check your timing and spark plugs. Are you familiar with a timing light? Its probably low for street use, bump it up to 34. Check your spark plugs after a solid WOT run and see what it looks like. You might be running lean. Is your float bowl set? Don't start changing cams and stuff until you know for sure your cars maxed out with that combo. Launching at 1800 then mashing it to spin that torque converter/ timing/ carb tune might be worth low 14's or possibly better. Just asking, but are you sure you're getting WOT? My vortec 350 was only running 14.7s until i got my exhaust/ gears/ trans/ and linkage right. Now i'm running 13.1s with my trans not shifting right and my carb bogging off the line 1.9 60'

1. check timing
2. check float bowl it should barely drip out when you take the screw out/ check pedal linkage for WOT
3. check plugs after a solid wide open throttle pass and see if its running lean, bump up 2 jet sizes i have a jet kit i could ship you some.
4. What kind of exhaust are you running?
5. Run your car at different shift points until you get your best time, i would say no lower than 5500 and no higher than 6000. Don't shift into OD
6. Launch as high RPMS as possible/ get slicks

Like i said i went from 14.7s to 13.1s and i still have room for improvement. A few things being out of wack can cost alot of tenths at the track. You'll love it when you break 13s.

 

a set of vortec heads would wake that thing up a TON. vortec heads, edelbrock RPM style intake, and a more modern cam. those 70's heads on there are killing you, so is the 60ft.

 

thank you for that!!!!!!!

 

i am new to the carb tuning tricks. i have a edelbrock 600cfm carb. i am familiar with a timing light. i didnt know you could tune a edelbrock...only holleys. i did try to advance the timing that day ...i have it set at 10degrees with out vacuum advance...so with vacuum advance i am not sure where it would be...but it backfired bad (was if i had to guess 5 more degrees). i did put in a summit recurve kit to the hei distributor with silver springs.
i have never checked spark plugssince i have changed them, but by smelling the exhaust it seems rich but i took out the convertor.
exhaust is a hedman shortys with y-pipe going into a 2 1/2 flowmaster exhaust (no cat)
as far as the linkage..when i beefed up the trans i found valve body ***** in places that weren't shown in pic...so i only put in where it said to put them.
i did find that the kickdown linkage wasn't set right...so i hooked it up the the tci bracket to trans and adjusted it since the pan was off and got it as good as it would go.
so i am curious to see how it does now with this setup

 

the install wasn't to bad. i mean i have pulled trans and convertors before but never did anyhting like this. i pulled it out of the since i was doing a stall and a new front pump seal. but it gives you springs for the cluch pack.. i didn't go that far. the valve body was easy...replace springs/ drill holes/ replace valves. it doesn't come with trans gasket of servo o-ring (blue one) so i sugest you should buy the corvette servo which comes with the gaskets since you e to pull it out anyhow for $20. make sure you check the kickdown linkage while its all apart. it seems overhelming to some people but as soon as i downloaded and watched the video from the website it cleared all my questions and showmed me what i may have done wrong without it.any more questions feel free to ask.

 

vortec heads at summit for the pair are around 650.00 or you can get 2.02 heads for the same price. which ones you like better 2.02 or vortec. i will consider that because i was thinking of getting a new intake anyways...i have a edelbrock performer now. this is why i am aksing ...see what you guys are doing and what works becuase like many of you with 2 kids i am not rich.thanks

 

i'd go with the vortecs, but you'll need a manifold, i would go with a Professional products one since you're on a budget. check out www.sdparts.com they may have what you need for cheaper

 

thanks i will check into that

 

no problem man.

 

you need to stop,breath,and relax. first you need to figure out what you wat and how much you want to spend. then you need to review everything you currently have and see what works well with what oyu have and what doesnt. theres no magical bolt on or recommendation. a car,especially one for the strip is an entire package. i mean entire pckage from the entire powertrain to the suspension to the tires. everything must work together as a whole to maximize your potential. what works on your car wont neccesarrily work on mine and so on . i dont want to see you toss away good money and possibly go slower,yes slower and it can happen. you also need to be reasonable with your expectations. maybe your engine and set up cant do 13s. im sure guys will come on and say "my lg4 did 10s" etc etc...well good for them but your car isnt going 10s .
given all that was said you have some issues which were addressed. the 327,ok is an ok engine but its just a 5.4 litre with 40 year old cylinder heads. cylinder heads and also cam technology has come a long way in 40 years. its also a 327, a 1.1 -1.2 hp per cubic inch ratio is a good bench mark for street cars,so doing the math a 327 if it made 350 hp youre doing ok buttttttttt 350 gross isnt going to burn up the strip in a 82 camaro.just reality.
trans,its fine. yes there is a larger 1-2 drop but thats easily corrected by a high stall. ask any real drag racer who runs the 700. a high stall and the drop isnt a factor. how much stall that all depends but like posted earlier mim 3000.....but again thats more for a strip car with higher power.
traction- are you hooking up? if not street slicks are great. them nittos are a nice tire if you heat them up at the strip and will most likely handle your 327 with ease.
heads-some guys yelling vortec,ok yes good heads but also a matter of opinion. im a trick flow fan and also like protoplines. some swear by afrs....but again its a combination not a bolt on. do you go with a 220 cc intake? heck no,your engine wont handle that ...also heads 640 a pair i think you said,add in shipping,gasket kit,exhaust gasket,(hope you get them bolts out) anti freeze, and thats without a new intake.. the cost ads up beyond the 640 and i say this because you mentoined cost factor.
carb-i think you said edelbrock...good carb for you. tuning it? go to edelbrock,the website has good basic info on tuning but to do it right you basically need an air fuel gauge and o from there but thats not something youd invest in. its more of a tool,otherwise youre guessing at tuning. yes you can tryto tue it at the strip,but your ets are low and you wont see a consistent difference to know whats working or not.can you pull plugs or check gas mileage? gas mileage is too hard to accurately determine.too many factors effect it . smells rich? thats means nothing. yes it can indicate a lrich condition but youre also smelling it at idle. is it rich or just a big cam overlap not burning all the fuels at idle?????
i know im rambling but im trying to make the point dont just throw good money away in hopes of going faster when you might not. if youre up for it try the oldest trick in the book,weight loss. rule of thumb is every 100 lbs is a 1/10th... well i bet you could shed 200 lbs easily if you wanted to start riddingyourself of creature features. if you really hunker down several more hundred especially if you have ac,power windows,seats,.....and the best part is most if this stuff you can do for ittle or no costs!!!!!!!!!!! i think theres a write up or two here about weight loss....good luck.

 

the cost factor is one of the reasons that i mentioned the vortecs, they'd be a ton better than the 70's smoggers that are on it, and its hard to beat the bang for the buck. other than that good post. first thing's first wring what you can out of the current set up and then see where you're at

 

look man what you need to do is save your money and listen to every one of my steps in my last few posts. Its the same thing that everybody on here will tell you what to check to make sure your engine is in PRIME running condition. CHECK the list of all the things i suggested to you and if your car still doesnt break 13's then start spending money. I guarantee you that a few things i suggested will help you break a few tenths in the quarter. Stop posting questions when everyone has answered the same question over and over. Let us know when you check the things i listed and ran it at the drag strip. I'm betting you can run 14.3s at least.

 

365 dollars, nitrous...done....get the speed you want..

 

he needs to get it running right on the motor before even thinking about putting the hose to it

 

like i said before this is all new to me..going to the dragstrip and racing. i am a self taught gearhead with no help or knowing anyone that can answer these type of questiong. thanks for all the help and answers from everyone and i will consider all of them and see which and what is best for me, like you all have said. first things first i will go race this spring and see where i am at with what i have just finished and then go from there...doing what you all have said little at a time.

 

That's weird, mine seems to come alive around 60-100 miles per hour, I have a stock 305 tbi Automatic with 2.73's.

 

yah weird, all the 2:73 cars I've had were great top end. I've always liked droping my foot n zipping by a few cars.

 

Yeah, I've people pull on me pretty hard until I hit 3rd gear and I start pulling on them, top of second, I'm falling back, it's screaming, and I'm just waiting for third gear to snap and when it does, it's like something gave the car a kick in the a**. But by then the race is almost over

It's either most cars lose their momentum suddendly or mine starts gaining it. When I hit the govener at 108-110, it's like running into a brick wall, seems like it has a good 20-30 mph left in it!

 

What size of tires do u have? is the car tubd out ?