Steel Armadillo

For those of you who remember me looking for a third gen Camaro, then asking how to get it home, I bought one and I got it home. It's an '89 that has been treated mercilessly by the stooges that had it before me.


The good:
-Newly Rebuild 350 trans
-Has complete 350 motor
-Straight body, almost no rust
-Two sets of headers came with the car
-Got the car dirt cheap

The bad:
-The motor is one the previous owner took out of I guess a late 70s motorhome
-Owner said rear two cylinders are cracked
-Unsure about the status of the tranny, as it has never been run
-Worst Maaco-style paintjob I have ever seen. It really looks more like they got a bunch of spray cans and went after it with a fairly even hand

My first goal was to get into the motor. So ive been plugging away after work for the last couple days.





Ive got the motor and tranny split now, and I got the motor on its stand. I took the driver side head off and two peices of good news hit me; the cylinders dont appear cracked (I'll know for sure when I heat it with the torch tomorrow) and the heads are 194s. The bad news is that the head is cracked big time in two places. Ill post pictures of all this, hopefully tomorrow depending on what lady wants to take me out that evening.

Tomorrow, I'll finish taking the heads off and I should have time to strip the block down, I'll get pictures.

I'm really looking forward to this and I'd love to hear any comments, questions, concerns, ideas, or information you think is useful. Sorry for any grainy pictures, my phone is all I usually have handy.

Thank yall for reading my post!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

From the pics it looks like a pretty solid starting point. I like the custom two tone paint on the engine haha. Any idea what the car had for an original motor? I noticed it's got V belts which went away after 87. I'm guessing they just hacked the motor in there and threw whatever on it that they needed to get it to work.

What are your drivetrain plans for it? Are you sticking with a small block? Any specific ET your shooting for? I'll be checking this one out!

Steel Armadillo

It's an RS (the ground effects came off of like 3 different color Z28s), and I believe it had the 305 originally, which was an option. At least the guy I got it from said it had a clapped-out 305 when he bought it.
Oh yea, the dude just threw a bunch of crap on this thing, I've found parts from at least three separate motors so far, who paints an aluminum intake manifold white? And like I said, its a late 70's motor so there are many things arent matching the year of the car.lol
Im not sure about drivetrain yet, I have to look around and see what would be the most fun for the money. Yes, I'm going to stick with the 350, but I'd like to do a 383 if I get the chance. The ultimate goal seems to be 12's. Anything faster is money I would rather spend elsewhere. I called around this morning, and I have a line on a set of fully dressed 194 heads with covers and gaskets for $200! So thats pretty awesome. And a buddy of mine is gonna hook me up with his buddy that owns a speed shop near the local dragstrip. I hope to have it running in a relatively short period of time. Then comes the stripping.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

ok i'll stop you dead lol.


if you JUST want 12's, i'd throw a set of vortec heads on it, a decent size cam, performer RPM intake for the vortec heads, then get around a 3500 stall converter for the TH350. a set of 4.10 gears in the rear, should run mid/low 12's all day long.


also box or replace the stock control arms, get some lower control arm relocation brackets. remove the front sway bar.


and if it is a strip only build, remove all the weight you can. everything it doesn't need to run, get rid of it.

AlkyIROC

A lightweight low HP vehicle can go just as fast as a high HP heavy vehicle. Since it won't see street action, strip everything out not required for speed or safety. Since you only want to run 12's, a roll bar isn't required however a roll bar even in a 12 second unibody car will help. It will however add weight to the vehicle so gut out everything you can.

Many years ago, I got into the high 11's with a simple old school 383 with camel heads, a good flat tappet cam, TH350 and 3800 stall converter with only 3.27 gears and 26" tall tires.

Steel Armadillo

Here are the pictures from friday night that I promised:






Yesterday I got the motor stripped to bare block. Guy I bought the car from said the back two cylinders were cracked (he didn't know, he just repeated what his crackpot mechanic told him), which as far as I can tell, is not the case. The driver side head seems to be the only thing really wrong with the motor. But like I said before, I can get a set cheap. You can't see it in the pics, but the two center cylinders on the driver side have cracks in the head (reason for the water/rust).




When I pulled the oil pan, I found it was a 4-bolt main
I ran the numbers this morning and it's a 1980 block. V0117TMR if you want to run the numbers. If not, it is in fact from some kind of van. It's old, but healthy, I'm willing to give it a chance.

The pistons and rods are done. I'm gonna look into some flat top or dome pistons depending on valve clearance with the new heads. The crank is still in spec, so it will go back in. I have to look closer at the cam to see what it is, but it will likely get replaced. Im planning on roller lifters and rockers.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

if you're getting heads don't get 80's smogger castings......sure they could be made to work but putting a better budget head on it would be a better idea.


and it looks like you're off to a running start. what kind of rear suspension setup does it have? i'm not seeing a torque arm mount on the back of the trans

Steel Armadillo

Agreed.

And no there isnt. Which is something I was going to get to. I'm pretty new to third gens, and I'm not even sure where exactly the arm mounts on the tranny. I have it, it just wasn't installed. Help? lol

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

you've got a couple options for that, the cheapest is going to be the B&M kit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-30299/

or get a crossmember from BMR or UMI or the likes that mounts the torque arm to that instead of the back of the trans, that's the preferred method.


or since you're just shooting for 12's, throw one of the Jeg's tunnel mounted units under it

AlkyIROC

TMR is a truck engine ie pickup or van.

1980 350 rated at 170 HP. 4 bolt as you've already discovered. Could have been in a van or bus. Had an automatic transmission behind it and had California emissions. Of course none of that means anything because you're going to change it so technically all that matters is that it's a 1980 4 bolt 350 block.

Steel Armadillo

I'm at a bit of a standstill right now, I really have to wait until Saturday when I go get my heads and then probably Monday so that I can take them to National Cylinder Head and figure out exactly what I have. After that, I have to choose a camshaft. Does anyone have any suggestions on dimensions? Remember, this his is purely a W.A.O. 1/4 mile car.

Steel Armadillo

While I'm looking for suggestions, what RPM range should I build my motor to make peak power at? I've gathered that my stall should be between 3300-3800, any specific confirmation on that?

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

the stall is going to be based off of the camshaft, the camshaft is based upon what the heads are. the intake is also going to be based on the cam as well.

Steel Armadillo

How do I choose pistons?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

For a drag car I'd go with the highest compression you can get with pump gas which on an all iron engine will probably be around 10.5:1 or so. Compression is your freind for racing and I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) that compression will affect a cam choice or specific set up. It's basically free horsepower.

Steel Armadillo

Is there a specific reason for pump gas?

AlkyIROC

No. Some people just feel you should run pump gas. Race gas just has a higher octane rating. I run straight methanol and won't go back to gasoline. The biggest difference in fuel is how much can you afford? Pump gas is cheap but even running premium fuel limits how much power you can make. A race fuel such as VP C12 may cost you twice as much as pump gas. Methanol is about half the cost of race gas but you also burn twice as much but make more power than the same engine on gasoline. If I ran gasoline, I would probably have to run C14 which is even more expensive.

Octane is fuel's resistance to self detonate. Depending on the compression ratio, you only need enough octane to prevent detonation. Octane slows the rate in which the fuel burns. Too much octane can produce less HP as not enough but too much won't cause detonation damage.

High compression builds torque. You can easily run 12's with a pump gas engine. Aluminum heads are inexpensive and are a good investment for a bracket car. They'll make it lighter, they flow better and can withstand slightly more compression than iron heads.

Steel Armadillo

Well, I have a guy that sells any kind of fuel one might want, about 5min from my house... And he gives discounts if you buy larger quantities...

I know meth injection is like the miracle cure for the Grand Prix crowd, but I had wondered about its value in small blocks. So, what would I have to do to be able to run meth?

And what levels of compression could I safely go to with iron heads running pump and meth respectively?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Why are you buying heads when you don't even know what they are? Most likely you get the same junk that you just pulled off.

The Vortec recommendation was a sound one. You'll need an intake manifold made just for Vortec heads, but that's not a biggie. The chances of running 12's with 882's isn't zero, but it certainly isn't the route to go unless you're building a car for stock class racing, and they wouldn't even be allowed for use in a 3rd gen!

I have yet to see anyone post a better deal than this:
http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...ter/sd8060raag

That kit, even pistons like the ones the engine currently has, a decent cam, 650 Holley double pumper, stall to match the cam, 4.10 gears, sticky tires, the simple suspension mods that have been suggested (and I'd add subframe connectors), a stripped-down car - certain mid- to low-12's all day long. On pump gas.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

that's a pretty solid deal on that vortec top end.


in my 3100ish lb car:
Vortec motor straight out of a suburban, never took the valvecovers off
Performer (non RPM)
Edelbrock 600cfm carb
hedman longtubes

th350
JEGS 3500 stall
4.10's out back.


it'd run 8.3x every time at the track which should be good for close to 13.00. my friend's full weight iroc went 7.9x with a simple vortec headed combo, which should be good for low 12's. take that motor and throw it in my lighter car and it could've seen high 11's easy enough.

AlkyIROC

There's a difference between methanol injection and injected/carb alcohol. The meth injection is a way to reduce detonation from high boost pressures by injecting methanol into the engine when under boost.

Straight methanol is the primary fuel. Carbs can be purchased or adapted to work on methanol but injection is much easier. A basic flying toilet system www.ronsfuel.com or www.killerrons.com is so simple, anyone can use it. A meaner looking system is an Enderle hat system sitting on top of a tunnel ram or even a blower. It's still just an injection system.

Stick to what you know for now. Run a carb on gas until you're ready for improvements.

Shagwell

A clean body is always the best place to start.

As can be seen in your pic, those heads were 882's, thus just as valuable cracked as when new(heavy scrap metal). - One of the worst OE production heads ever. As Alky eluded, they were smog/emissions heads; they aren't efficient and won't flow any power.

I wouldn't waste time or $ on any OE head other than vortecs. Time you put decent valves in them and get them properly refreshed you'll have more than half the cost of aftermarket heads in something will be limiting you to around 300hp. - Stock vortecs are much newer(won't need as much work to be back in good shape) and the stock stainless valves they come with are pretty good valves, plus they're easily capable of 400-500hp.

Find out what gears it has(likely 2.73 or 3.08), if it happens to be a 3.27 or 3.42, I'd roll with it for now. For strip only a 3.73 is the lowest I'd personally go in a stock 7.5" 10-bolt, the pinion just gets too small beyond that and will kill itself in short time.

If the trans is fresh, then just a decent converter and a mild shift improvement kit should have you good to go.

As other have said, take out anything non-essential. The most cost-effective way to go fast is by pushing less weight.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

IF you want only 12's, and you gut that car down to 3000lbs, it will go 12's with a bolt on l98 spec'd motor.

Just need box stock 87-92 L98 350 heads, a basic dual plane intake, carb, 3000 stall and mild 210 deg duration cam

I went 12.9's with 254whp on stock longblock bolt on L98 in a 3450lb car...cut 400lbs out and you have mid 12's easily and thats as budget as it gets.

But might as well just get vortec heads, install new springs, and run them with a mild flat tappet cam. It will get mid low 12's in a light car. dont need much gear or stall.

Shagwell

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

I ran 12.2's with 3.73's 3500 converter, ported big valve 416's ~9.5:1 compression, voodoo 60103, air gap intake, a good AED carb, and LT's.

I have very little $$ in this setup and it is plenty of fun, and it runs on 91 octane all day long.