When I say FAST i'm talking 9,10,11 second cars. All I see (with a few exceptions) are 14.4 and that "low 14's are an ideal time". What's up with this?

I'm in the process of an 84z to run 11's on street tires and squeeze into the LOW 10's, possibly 9's on stock wheelwells and with a/c. I hang out with alot of LS1.com guys and alot of them are in the deep 12's and 11's for daily drivers. All this with stock internals and some with stock heads. Am I the only D/FW thirdgen with high hopes of low times? Our cars have been around for alot longer and should theoretically have more fast examples of the breed. I'm a longtime reader and member of this site and am serious in my question, not just talking trash.

------------------
Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

 

Because we are dealing with cars with nowhere near the stock performance of an LS1. Just think.. a stock LS1 car is almost 4 seconds faster in the quarter mile than a TBI thirdgen. 4 seconds! The LS1 car can basically be running 12s with a Whisper Lid. 12s in even a Speed Density L98 thirdgen takes a lot of work. Thirdgens aren't like Stangs in that they take a little more work to make fast. The aftermarket TPI stuff is DAMN expensive. The Stang boys don't know how good they have it. The stock 10 bolt rear is weak and prone to breaking in sub 14 second cars. The T-5 doesn't do too well behind a 350 TPI either. Can you see what I'm getting at? The Thirdgen drivetrain leaves something to be desired. So before you can even run those 9, 10, 11, and 12 second times you mentioned, that must be upgraded beforehand.

Also, personally, I don't have the time or money to get my T/A running sub 12 second times. I have a full college course load and many other things to worry about besides having the fastest thirdgen around. Therefore, I just do what I can to keep mine nice, and I mod it when I get the funds. And finally, there's nothing wrong with running low 14s in a Thirdgen. A low 14 second Thirdgen is probably faster than 90% of them out there, sad as that may seem.

------------------
91 Trans Am WS6
Bright White
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter

Built on Wednesday

 

Considering what you see on TV and read in magazines, welcome to the real world.

 

Ive seen a few on these boards before but for the most part the fast thirdgen guys are not on the web. Ive talked to quite a few on the phone who are running the times you ask about but they are rarely if ever, on the web.

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
"Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"

 

First of all, most TPI 350's are only 1 - 1.5 seconds slower stock. Maybe 4 seconds for tbi, but that's as bad as a 6 cylinder. Second, any of these cars w/ proper mods and tuning can run w/ ls1's. but, most of the guys on this brd are kids and have no money. ls1's are $30k, if you put htat into a 3rdgen, it would run 10's all day. It doesn't matter who you are, just how much $ you have.

------------------
SUPERCHARGED 87 GTA: Blk/Gld w/Superam, 355cid Trickflows, forged pistons 9.5:1. Auto 2,600 stall, 3.45 9 bolt disc, Best time & mph (Naturally Aspirated): 13.567 @ 101.900 w/ a poor 60ft. Best mph: 104.3 *This car is 100% NYS emissions legal, w/ all emissions controls!* "If you want to have a fast car, hang out w/ those who do!"
http:// www.community.webtv.net/munks87/JustinsGTApage.com
VORTECH S-TRIM, INSTALLATION IN PROGRESS: 10 & 15 LB> PULLEYS, CUSTOM HKS RACE BYPASS, CUSTOM DUCTING W/ COLD AIR, SWAPPING TO SERPENTINE, & MANY EXTRAS! BEST TIME: 11'S I GUESS. WE'LL SEE IN SPRING!

[This message has been edited by Justin 87 GTA (edited March 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Justin 87 GTA (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

We are trying DAMMIT!!! haha, really, most guys on here drive their cars daily, and are limited on funds...such as me. I have built my car on an A1C's wages in the Air Force (1200 a month). I think I'm not doing to bad. When I get some more money for a different rear, I will put my car on slicks, and with some tuning, I may be knocking on the 11's door. But until this car stops being my daily driver, I can't afford to break it.

------------------
Black 89 IROC...Mods: 355, 10.5:1 comp, Big Solid Crower Cam, TFS heads, Victor Jr, Holley, and a 5 spd...12.90 @ 112.5 with a 2.3 60ft time on BFG radial TA's

 

Your 89 IROC should have a 9-bolt rear in it, right? If so, it'll last you well into 11's, and probably 10's too. They're a lot stronger than the 10-bolts.

I can hang with new LS1's at the track, because of my torque, but on the freeway, their horsepower wins.

My neighbor has an 87 IROC he races in NHRA Comp Eliminator. It runs 8.40's on a 358 small block and one carb.

------------------
West Coast GM Shootout 2001!
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

The Austrailain 9 Bolts are better than the 10 bolts but I wouldnt expect it to last that long with slicks and good 60ft times.

I got my 9bolt down to 11.42@119 with a 1.60 60ft. It was howling pretty good when I took it out. Its got 103K on it too.

Anyone wanna buy it?

I have a Dana 44 now with 3.31 Gears and have ran a 1.56 60ft with it so far. Im going to have the axle tubes welded this spring and then it should be good for awhile. Trying for some 1.50 60fts.

BTW, I daily drive a 12 sec LS1 and race an 11 second 3rd gen which could be a daily driver but I worry about it getting stolen.

Although, I dont have a V8 so its easier to go Fast

------------------
Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Only had the valve covers off once... 106K miles and still going. 300+ Runs.

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106 Bone Factory Stock

 

If it's of any consolation cy z28, I plan on running high 10s/low 11s in my 88 IROC this spring. That's with keeping my A/C fuctional, as well as all the creature comforts that it came with from the factory. Oh yea, it's still EFI too.

 

I spent all day thinking about that also. When you look at the late 60's early 70's "muscle" cars, very few of them actually got into the 13's from the factory. Most were low to mid 14's. They also didn't have A/C, cruise, power steering or brakes. They had uncomfortable suspension and interiors and had poor gas milage. Todays cars that run low 14's have all these plus more.

Now it was a lot easier to make one of those old muscle cars run 11's or 12's than it is with todays cars but as a daily driven car, today's cars are the true performance vehicles.

 

I knew this would bring out the big guns. And although I have less than 40posts I'm building the second motor for my car, and the first motor (305 to 350) was putting me in the 13.80's with stock 3.73's and a T-5. I was the fastest in HS till the LS1's started getting n2o. (class of 98) I'm also working 60hrs a week and have pulled at least 12hrs of school a semester for the past 3 years.

the new motor will put me in the 11's on radials in the tens on slicks and in to the 9's with squeeze. this is a mini'rammed 383 with ZZ4 heads, and comp 306. All setup to spin at 7k for as long as I please. Backing that up is a 95 model T-56 and a beefed up ten bolt. All suspension is Spohn and the motor is being assembled by Reher-Morrison. Now, i do have a daily driver and the car has sat for a year but my pickup payments are 300 bucks a month and I just buy parts from week to week. I'm currently bringing home about 1600 a month.

As an aside, i read this site alot and am studying mechanical engineering, so i know quite abit about third and fourth gens. I just don't post alot and my old name was "cyZ28" not "cy Z28" i just forgot my passwork one day. LOL

------------------
Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

 

I was running 13.81 with my wifes daily driver, 89RSconvt with a 5.7TPI motor. Thats a fully loaded RS convt, power everything. She now has a ZZ4 motor and some more go fast stuff so I'm hoping for low 13's. With a little effort and some weight reduction I'm sure I could be in the 12's easy. I just don't have $1200 for a beefed up tranny (still the stock 700R4) or $1500 for a KTRE 12 bolt rear. (stock 10 bolt 3:23 posi disc) Of course then there's that pesky NHRA rule that says convertibles faster then 13.99 need a cage! I tried to talk the wife into one but she said "no"!
Plus with my suspension mods the car handles the corners very nicely. So I guess I opted for good straight line and cornering ability.

------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI
Edelbrock Hi-Flow Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake
1 5/8" Headers
Semi-Siamesed Runners
MSD6AL/relocated MAT/ AdjFPR/IROC frnt@rear swaybar/wonderbar/steeringbox/alum drvshaft/ Alston SFC/3:23posi disc rear/MAC LCA/H.Adams Panhard Rod/KYB struts/ shocks/
92Z28convt5spd
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

Here's one.

------------------
91 Firebird Formula. Converted to carb. Holley 750. Forged Flat top pistons. 10.5 to 1 compression. ZZ-9 Cam. Ported L98 Heads.
175 shot NOS, 700r4 w/ 3000 rpm converter and 3.73s in the back. Headers w/ full dual exhaust. 27.5 inch McCrearys. (free slicks)
12.98 @ 106 Natural,
11.83 @ 113 NOS.


[This message has been edited by Formula-91 (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

Just bear in mind that there is a real difference to going to the dragstrip and running fast and parking lot benchracing. most of the members on this site have been to the strip and know what their cars run. Some other enthusiasts may be less than accurate in their performance assumptions "i beat a guy who has a 12 sec car so i must be in the 11s" or "i did the exact same mods as in the magazine so i have a 10 sec car". my favorite story is the mustang kid who was arguing with the tech director at the dragstrip that the clocks must be wrong because his car was much faster than his timeslip showed. the other comments about it being a little more work with a 3rd gen are true. 3rd gen trannies and rears are less durable and the cars are heavy. I for one would rather be driving a fast, unique car than a cookie cutter blue oval clone.

------------------
BBC powered 82 firebird.
Street driven (barely) Best ET no nitrous: 9.42 @142mph , Fogger installed, shooting for low 8s in 2001

 

9.0, I totally, realize that benchracing is totally B.S. I too hate that. I'm trying to build the "ultimate street thirdgen" Alpine DVD player in the dash and 9 second timeslips with a "high speed" suspension setup, not full drag. I don't like the pro street look at all.

 

it really doesnt take much for an ls1 to get into the 11's and below. hell, i know a guy who has a 01 "ss", all he has is nitrous and some 4.11's and hes already dam near 11, like 12.1 or so on the gtech. for me to get there would cost at least as much as he spent on that brand new car. for me, it just economical, by the time i get outa college im gonna owe bout 20k, that doesnt leave much for money to blow on mods.

daniel

 

Well I just had to jump into this ? My bird is certainly not the fastest. If my current motor, Which will run hopefully today. I should be mid to high 11's. And without a dought low 12's, on drag radials. Saying fast cars aren't out there, isn't going to get a lot of votes in my book. Also how old are you???? I'm guessing 19-21. Around me most third gens are owned by teenagers. Because they are cheap to get and look good. The minority are adults with money to spare to make a fast third gen. Its a h--l of alot easier to go by a new TA with finacing and then add nitrous, to hit low 12's. I don't know about banks around you but where I live if I went in and asked for a loan for 25,000 to get my bird running 11's. I would get LAUGHED out of the bank the county. What I'm getting at is to mach athied gen fast it has to come out of someones pocket, Thus fun money, in which I don't have a whole lot extra laying around with a wife and 2 children, to support. So next time your going to pick a fight, atleast do us a favor and go to the corral and do it.
John

------------------
82 Firebird,355,Cam 224/234, .466/.488,TH350 Tranny,650 HolleyDP,Hooker Headers(I.E. POS) Manual steering
Best 8th et 8.62@80mph.
NEW for 01
A 408,dart iron eagle heads,street dominator intake, 750 SD,cam 229/239, .497/.520, Also a big hole in the hood.
Shooting for low 12's.
Check out my birds new home. It isn't much to look at but give me a couple years.
Http://www.geocities.com/spuds82firebird

 

BS! Nitrous is cheap. Anyone can run low 12's on nitrous. My setup costs no where near 25k, like an LS1 does.

 

I think steve hit right on the head. Most people on here including me are 16-25 and just can't afford a 30k car and then insure it and ontop of that mod it. I run 12s with my na 350 iroc. I'am working on a degree @PSU and also started a new found buisness that is going to help me build my dream car among other things. These cars can easily go 9,10,11 seconds if you have the money its a walk in the park. The reason these 4th gens are so fast all over the place is a guy who can afford one can also afford a 10-15k motor, although they are coming down in price since they are as old as 8 yrs for the LT-1 camaro.Give me another year or two and you can see my twin turbo iroc over 1000hp

 

ah..to the guy who origninally posted this question...did you realize before you posted, that these are mid/high14 second cars? And that only goes for the performance models (g92 LB9 and L98 minus of course tta and firehawk). Everything else is VERy SLOW. I wouldn't of spent the money to modify my car if it was not a 1le.

------------------
91 Formula
305 TPI 5speed
1LE/G92/WS6

Paxton SN92 polished kit, SLP airfoil, ported/polished plenum, March pulleys, Crane AFPR(43psi),Crane Gold 1.6rrs,MSD coil,MSD6AL (4700rpm limit),Holley 9mm wires,Ac delco R43ts plugs,fastchip,Ford SVO 24# injectors,Bosch O2sensor,SLP 1 5/8" headers,SLP catback,shortened shifter,3:73s w/Auburn posi,170* t-stat,JET 195* fan switch, Macewen white face gauges, Autometer gauges, Zoom hi-performance clutch.

 

I'll be hitting the 11 second barrier this spring in a stock bottom 305.
Hows that for fast?
Nitro Don

------------------
1990 Trans Am WS6
305TPI 700R4

ENGINE:
150hp NOS kit
March underdrive pulleys
Edelbrock headers(JetHot)
Mac off-road pipe
Flowmaster exaust
Jacobs ultra coil
K&N filter
Fulley ported base,
runners,& plenum
Crane AFPR
Hypertech airfoil
Crane 1.6 rockers
210/220 .533/.544 Cam
W/P Torquer heads
Edelbrock TPI Base
Edelbrock TI Runners
Edelbrock 52mm T.B.
TRANSMISSION:
Richmond 3.73's
Auburn posi
B&M Mega shifter
TCI shift kit
Vette servo
B&M 3-4 upshift kit
TCI Trans Rebuild
2800 stall 9.5" TC
Nitto Drag radials
FUTURE MODS:

BEST RUN:
12.48 @ 109.23 MPH
(with stock heads,cam,intake,and crappy Pep Boy's tires)

[This message has been edited by Nitro Don (edited March 08, 2001).]

 

Actually... no. L69 5 speed cars aren't bad at all, they are barely slower than single cat MAF L98 cars. Same goes for all Speed Density LB9s as well, G92 or not.

 

Well I think the L69 can never match an L98 or LB9 G92 . Torque wise or acceleration. Not to mention, the LB9s/L98s have more potential when you start modifying them. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but come on..the L69 is not really a "desirable" engine...and not even really acceptable for most of us to own!



[This message has been edited by theformula (edited March 09, 2001).]

 

MrJ,

I dont know where you get your facts..but a healthy single converter MAF L98 is NOT barely faster than an L69..

Daz

 

I think for one we have a really bad traction problem when we start to get some hp and torque under the hood. I just sit and spin and it is really embarassing stock f-body can get me by at least a car on take off. of course I blow by them like they are just standing still but, when you race an ls1 and they pull from you off the line and then they keep going you have to play catch up the whole time just to make up for your lack of traction.

 

Well I'm far from a 9,10,or even an 11 sec car,but I do consider having a pretty fast street car.I also can beat a freinds bone stock(thank god he hasnt done anything to it yet)2000 automatic Z easing out from a stoplight,(I spin much more then him from a dead stop so thats a lost cause)and also have him a little from a 20mph roll up to about 100(I raced him once this way)then he starts to pull away.Not bad considering I paid under $4K for it and put around $1500 in mods in it,and is paid for.Sure he has a 10 year newer car with all the improvements,but he also has over $500+mo payments,his downpayment was about as much as I paid for the price of my car,somehow he's always broke and just about everyone(including myself) thinks mine looks better.I'm trying to save money to move right now so I dont know if I'm going to be putting anymore money in it for awhile(I would love to stuff a cam in,and have the manifold and heads ported)but I am satisfied with its mid 13's performance and for 1/4th the price of a new one,you can have a nice 350 TPI thirdgen perform as good or better then a new one.

------------------
1990 Trans Am GTA,Black/Black Leather,350,auto 3.23,Dual Cats,SLP Package,SLP Torque Converter/Shift Kit,Fastchip,GSC's,
G-tech 0-60 5.1 1/4mile 13.6@104
Previous Thirdgen
1986 Camaro IROC-Z

[This message has been edited by black5.7GTA (edited March 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by black5.7GTA (edited March 11, 2001).]

 

you guys think 14 sec is slow its not my cbr
600 f2 honda does a 1/4 in high 10s and zero to 60 in 3sec thats fast enough for me the only mods i have on my bike is performance exhaust and jet kit

 

If I ever have the need to go sub 10's, I'll do it the cheap way...a bike.

 

fellas, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. And I'm also not trying to compare LS1's and 3rd gens. Yes, I'm 21 and am still living at home, but i go to school full time and make a 300/mo truck pmt. It just seems that with the amount of time that our cars have been around, you'd see more of them in the 12's at least. Say what you will about teens buying thirdgens, you're right. This was my first car bought in 96 when I was 16 years old for a whopping 2,500 bucks. But, two weeks after I bought it the motor overheated (Water pump went out in a Texas August) and I spent the next year and a half building a 350 in my Auto mechanics class in HS. I never had the bolt-ons. I've only done whole motorswaps in this car. I'm now on my second one. I guess if you're making payments it's different, but as a 17 year-old kid working after school at Wal-mart, I was hauling *** and killling the 5.slow's in a 3rdgen and proud of it. People give me a hard time because i own one of these cars, but i just tell them to put their money where their mouth is and let the HP do the talking.

This was purely a post to see what kind of comptition I'd have at this level on the street. I hope I've not offended any of you and if you have any ?'s please ask me.

------------------
Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

 

I get my facts from what I see at the strip. An 87 L98 is a high 14 second car. A 5 speed 3.73 L69 car is a 15 flat car. Close enough for you?

 

The H.O. is a good engine , but it can't match an L98. U can't go by what u see at the track because u don't know what is done to them or how they are mechanically. The best times I've seen for both engines stock from lots of tests are:

L69: 190HP 240TQ

0-60: 7.2
1/4 mile: 15.2

L98: 245HP 345TQ

0-60: 6.2
1/4 mile: 14.2

I know most tests don't have as good results, that all has to do with where and when they are run, but the L98's advantage, whether u base them on those times or others that aren't as good, is alot when it comes to modding and just being fast from the factory. The L69 makes its best times with a manual, but the L98 is an automatic and making those kind of times, and if the L98 was available with a manual, its times would most likely be even faster. I've even seen those times I mentioned come from 87's with 225HP and 330TQ, so the 1's with 245HP and 245TQ could've had even better times, but thats about the fastest an L69 with a manual gets stock compared to the much better L98.

------------------
Looking For:

87 IROC-Z 350 TPI
84 TRANS AM 305 H.O.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited March 14, 2001).]

 

I don't care what an L98 would run if it had a manual. The fact remains that the performance diff. between an L69 5 speed 3.73 car and an early MAF L98 car isn't very large. BTW no way in hell is a 220hp 87 L98 car running 14.2 in the quarter stock.

 

"I dont know where you get your facts..but a healthy single converter MAF L98 is NOT barely faster than an L69"

"I think the L69 can never match an L98 or LB9 G92 . Torque wise or acceleration. Not to mention, the LB9s/L98s have more potential when you start modifying them."

Read what every1 is saying dude. They are correct. U are telling me that a car with 225HP, 330TQ, and with the upgraded 700R4 in 87, couldn't run a 14.2 with really good track conditions?? I have read these results before on various track tests. I have ALOT of test results on these cars and that was the best times I could find for both.

Lets see, the L69's performance isn't that much different, OK. I think the L69 is a good engine, but if u take heads, cam, and lots of other stuff, which engine do u think is going to benefit more from those mods?? The L98. The L69 does 0-60 around 7.2-7.5, the L98 does it in 6.2-6.3. thats a big difference when it comes to potential and being fast. U mod the L69, but u are still in maybe mid 6 0-60 times. U mod the L98 and u are now in the maybe mid 5's or better. It doesn't matter what u say, the L69 is usually a mid to low 15 sec. engine and the L98 is usually a mid to low 14 sec. engine. The L69 is a considerably fast 305 engine, but the L98 is just a much faster engine with much more potential.

------------------
Looking For:

87 IROC-Z 350 TPI
84 TRANS AM 305 H.O.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited March 14, 2001).]

 

Also, not to mention the better throttle response and gas mileage u get with TPI.

------------------
Looking For:

87 IROC-Z 350 TPI
84 TRANS AM 305 H.O.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited March 14, 2001).]

 

Dude, my 88 (yes, MAF car) ran a 14.30 @95&96MPH bone *** stock. Im sorry, but i have seen it too many times. I saw another mass air car go 14.10s stock. By the way, both of these were formulas, mabe the lighter weight is what makes the difference.

------------------
L98, 3.27 9-bolt, Hooker shorty headers, custom 2.5inch Y-pipe, no cat, 3inch 2chamber flowmaster, JET AFPR, Ported MAF, Best ET: 13.86 @100mph. 1.99 60'
17 inch ROH "ZS" wheels. 17x8.5(front) and 17x9.5 (rear). Firestone Firehawk SZ50s. 245/45/zr17s and 275/40/zr17s. T56

On the way... Radar Blue 89 Formula, T56, Ram Jet 430, Ram Air, 17inch ROHs.

 

Times are in sig.

------------------
1989 T/A, 400" CNC Bow-Tie tall-deck, JE 8.5:1, Scat H-beam 6" rods, Scat 4340 crank, Crower roller cam, AFR heads, Accel Pro-Ram intake, 1200-cfm t/b, DFI, 72# inj., S/X fuel system, Hahn Racecraft T76 single turbosystem, NOS 150-hp dry fogger, TH400 w/GV overdrive, Dana 44 w/3.54's, Baer Track brakes, 18X9.5 wheels, P275/35ZR18 Nittos, Spohn suspension, S/T springs, KYB AGX shocks/struts, Corbeau Targa RS seats, TeamTech 5-point harnesses, Sparco steering wheel, MacEwen white gauge overlays, Phantom gauges/tach, B&M Pro Stick w/carbon-fiber ****, REAL carbon-fiber dash/console kit (don't ask), S&W 8-point rollbar, Lonza aluminum pedal covers, Pioneer/Boston Acoustics stereo system, filled side markers, Audi clear fender marker lights, custom clear front turn signals, custom clear taillights, IMSA-style cowl hood (don't ask), custom medium Intense Blue pearl paint, tinted glass. Whew!

Best ET w/383" S-trim: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph
Best ET w/400" turbo, nitrous: Summer 2001

Member of Midwest F-Body Association www.mfba.org

 

GMI, I must say that i'm VERY impressed. You are exactly what I was looking for when I posted this message. No flame was ever intended.

------------------
Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

 

shootn' for 10s with boost next summer.

ran mid 12s with old combo

------------------
New build up in progress
350
Procharger D-1X
AFR or Canfield 195cc
PARacing frt suspension
DFI
more as money allows
Always a cool place visit
www.mfba.org