skinny z

Keep in mind too that the stock governor can be tweaked for a change in shift points.
In the link attached, I believe LG4Bird had a successful result.

my hemi

my thing is I dont want to mess with the stock one..I'd rather modify another one and have the stock one as a back up..just in case I screw up something lol..

skinny z

That makes sense. I'm of the same mind in that regard.

my hemi

glad I'm not the only one..lol

I'm curious to see what it will pick up ET wise I've read a few posts here looks like a few people picked up like .2 tenths by shifting higher.. 5000 imo is a little low for our build.

my hemi

well I'm now wondering if the cam is what's holding it back.. what do you think? Should i do a cam change ?

skinny z

Well, if you want to get into it, and FWIW, I'm game, lay out the details of your current engine, transmission and converter and chassis specs including tires.
List any relevant drag strip performance. 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, 60', ET and MPH for all. RPMs for an entire run. Launch, top of 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Data logs if available.
Having had this kind of conversation just the other day, the conclusion was that any improvements in time slips would come about from combination of refinements in all of the areas listed above.

You've already touched on shift RPMs. I'd say right off the top, that's where to look. Rather than tear into the transmission, you might consider some manual shifting. At the very least you could observe what improvements, if any, come about from that. Then you can automate the trans to duplicate the best from the experiment. This one costs nothing other than a few passes down the track. A little testing on the street to get the feel for shifting may pay dividends.

Check out this website (Jones Cams Cam Recommendation Form) and fill in the blanks so to speak (you don't have to send it in to Jones, just post the values here). . This is part of the information needed to make a cam selection.

my hemi

Yes shifting might help I'm game to try that of course easiest too.. car has a 383 stroker, 10 to 1 compression, fully forged 4 bolt ,113 heads done by tpis flow 250 cfm lpe219 cam by lingenfelter 1.6 roller rockers .560 .560 lift 219 219 at .50 280 duration at .006 and 112 centerline, built 700r4 with a precesion billet 9.5 inch 2600 stall convertor, 3 inch chrome moly driveshaft s60 dana rear 3.54s car has all umi rear suspension, torque arm car 60fts 1.6x ETs are 12.2 to 12.3s 108 to 110 fromdata logs shifting 1st 4500 2nd to 3rd looked to be 5000 rpm timing is 34 to 36 at wot air fuel is 12.5 to 12.7s car runs awesome just would love a few tenths faster car is full weight with driver just shy of 3600 lbs still retains AC too stock iroc wheels front and rear 255 50 16 in MT ET street SS drag radials car is tuned thru a holley hp efi system holley dual sync distributor sequential firing order..36 lb injectors 340 lph walbro fuel pump. Exhaust is edelbrock 1-5/8 shorty headers,into a 3 in y pipe into a 4.5 inch mufflex exhaust 4.5 in 2 chamber flowmaster... what else do you need?

skinny z

From a drag racing perspective, and it's important to note that, I see three things that catch my attention.
1) Shift RPMs.
2) Cam
3) Headers

The heads flow well enough and at 250 CFM, could make peak HP at 5500 in a 383. Possibly more but I'll say the cam is a little thin in that regard. Some sims I've done are suggesting at a minimum 280 seat to seat (for a 5500 PM peak) but the old Lingenfelter grind is very slow with it's 219 @ 050" numbers. Modern grinds can maintain that seat timing but have a lot more area under the curve for increased torque across the board. As an example, Jones "mild" lobes are 222-227 (.050') while keeping 280 on the seat. Their more aggressive lobes get to 236. You can see how things have changed in the 20+ years since your cam was conceived. That said, many still like the LPE cam and swear by it. I think it's dated. The wide LSA doesn't help the peak TQ any but the 383 makes TQ anyway. But the wide LSA kills the overlap and with decent exhaust, that overlap is vital to making HP. The LPE is 56° off the seat. Going to the mid to high 60's wouldn't hurt the drivability and power output should improve. But remember it's small margins all around.

There's a long standing argument for short headers vs long headers. While the short header crowd have demonstrated good output (check out the SoCal guys and the TPI crowd and Dyno Don's headers), it can't be overlooked that the bulk of the racers have elected to use a long tube header fitted with enough exhaust so as not to induce any back pressure into the system. A single 3" is getting towards the small side however the 4.5" muffler should be more than adequate. (I may look into that myself). Open headers with a tuned collector is best for drag racing but often impractical. And in some cases, such as certain classes of the Summit ET Racing series, prohibited.

And back to shift points. With all you've got presently, I'd say it's a safe bet that you're shifting well below the optimum RPM. I'd go there first.

my hemi

We have a set on 1-3/4 SLP shortly headers we can put on.. I think shifting soon imo is killing the ETs I could be wrong.. 500 rpms would make that much of a difference? Have you see any videos of the car there on YouTube the thing launches hard then imo falls a little flat in mid range is that the shifting to soon thing?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I'm not sure those TPIS heads are as good as you think. Your engine has grunt but the mph isn't so hot. I suspect engine wants better flowing heads. Maybe find some honest cylinder head comparisons at your valve lift. My guess is a ported Vortec or AFR will clobber your TPIS head.

Intake manifold is going to hold you back from making more power up top. Lingenfelter intake runner was aimed at developing mid-range torque which makes for an awesome driving car. But you need more torque at higher rpm's if you want to go faster.

Agree with Skinny, higher valve lift pays off in spades because it results in the valve spending more time above mid-lift. There are modern cam lobes that lift the valve fast and gentle.

All that said, just install the supercharger. It's the solution to everything. Same awesome drivability, more torque at higher rpm, and it will extend your range to higher rpm's. You can spend a LOT of money on a naturally aspirated engine trying to get everything set up right. And you could do some of those things anyway if you want because any gains you could produce naturally aspirated will be multiplied under boost. Boost kicks ***.

my hemi

I think im going to try the free mod 1st shift a little higher I think 5k is to low shifting stock I think is hurting it a tad .. yes eventually it will be supercharged guess we were trying to get that 11.99 pass just for the hell of it..for what it is I think its respectful..

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Got a picture of the dyno sheet? That's always informative.
Sorry, you may have already posted it, I don't remember off hand.

my hemi

Car has never been on a dyno..but I can tell you 5000 rpm is to low of a shift point imo stock is 5000 I'd think at least 5500 is a good starting point if it goes slower I'll have her go 5400 etc etc. See what the best rpm is..I'm sure ever car is different and what it likes.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No doubt, 5K rpm is way too low to shift. No question about that.

If you had a dyno run it would tell you the shape of the torque curve so you can plan your next engine mod (if you want).

my hemi

Believe it or not when putting this together for my wife I wanted a 12.50 car it actually went 12.2s I was like wow not bad then i realized it had a few tuning issues we addressed those..then she had some hooking issues we addressed those.. car launches good now but from the data logs I noticed its shifting way to low that's why im hoping a raise in shift points might bring it down a few tenths .. 🙏🙏🙏 but we always had intentions of installing a supercharger..

skinny z

If for only that reason, it's something I have to do again.
I'm a data junkie, and the more I have, the better equipped I feel I am to make an informed decision.

my hemi

Let me tell you something dyno is a tool good for tuning wot I just spent big bucks to have a supercharger installed on my 6.1 hemi and dyno tuned by a huge shop with one of the best hemi tuners and when I got the car back to say I was disappointed is an understatement..so bad I spent another 1k to buy hp tuners and have another tuner tune me remotely on street diving and I went to 2 track rentals to dial the car in..best decision I made car runs perfectly now.. that's why I'd rather street tune or track tune her car..dyno imo is for a sheet of paper and bragging rights..lol

skinny z

There's no question that tuning has to be done where it counts. Whether that's the track or the street.
But for a carbureted and old school distributor guy like myself, it comes down to hard parts. My order of operations tend to be: Build and test to dial it in as much as possible. That's everywhere I'd go normally including the track, the highway and around town.
Then visit the dyno and get a map of where I'm at.
From there, some changes might appear obvious. Other times, results are skewed by the dyno itself so you have to be prepared for that.
To me, having that bit of data will tell me things I can't otherwise determine. As Qwik points out, the torque curve can be an especially helpful tool when discussing the situation with your torque converter people. It may also be an aid to me in this new engine development.
But that remains to be developed!

my hemi

Someday I'll throw it on a dyno to at least see where the power curve is for now I think I'll try the free mod 1st
.lol I got the supposed Corvette governor today I think it's not a Corvette governor lol I'll take pics and post later..paid 15 bucks for it if it's not I can use it to modify anyways...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Apparently they are not one of the best Hemi tuners.... Shame on them for not providing you a good service. A good tuner would have driven the car and seen it needed drivability improvements. WOT tuning is literally the easiest part of tuning. Idle and part throttle are much more difficult and that's where you find out who's good and who's not.

A large portion of part throttle tuning can be done using an eddy current dyno, but not all shops have that kind of dyno. Low rpm drivability (below 2000) still comes down to driving the car and sorting it out. There's no dyno fix for that.

my hemi

Yes the drivability was horrible..never went wot to see how that part of tune was.. I'm much happier with the way I retuned it thru hp tuners..car drives great and performs better

caperkev

CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THIS BUILD WILL WORK
383 EAGLE ROATING ASSEMBLY CAST STEEL CRANK
40 OVER
10.4 COMPRESSION
COMP CAM 110 LSA 539 INTAKE LIFT 553 EXHAUST
DURATION 230 INTAKE 236 EXHAUST
SMALL BASE CIRLE CAM
1.6 CRAKE ROLLER ROCKERS
EDELBROCK RPM PERFORMER HEADS
AIR GAP INTKE
HOLLEY SNIPER
NOT RACE BUILT BUT RATHER BOTH STREET AN STRIP

NOT LOOKING FOR CRAZY TIMES OR POWER JUST A GOOD MIX OF FUN
WILL THIS SETUP BE GOOD?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Really should have just made your own thread buddy.

skinny z

If you do start a thread on this I'll guarantee plenty of folks will offer an opinion.

caperkev

IF I COULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO START A THREAD I WOULD HAVE
I CAN BUILD A MOTOR BUT BE EFFFED ON THIS COMPUTER STUFF

skinny z

I sent you a private message.