I keep getting referred to other boards on this site and I am hoping somebody here can help me on making this. I want to make an upper TPI intake similar to the Accel SuperRam, and need help on how to get started, what gauge metal to use and what kind of metal would help. I also need specifications on the size. The stock TPI plenum just aint doing it for me nomore.

I would really appeciate help from anyone who would like to try.

I have basic MIG welding experience, so I will probaly be using that to put it together.


:hail: :hail:*Whoever helps me out*:hail: :hail:

 

You are going to have some difficulty finding help because it is something a lot of people dont have knowledge on.

Hell I dont. I know that the standard material used for fabricating intakes is aluminum. Id wager to say anything thicker than .095" will be strong enough too. Anything thinner, and you are going to start deforming it like a pop can under boost. I dont know what it would do under normal engine vacuum if it was thinner.

This is going to be a tough one for you to pull off I think.

If you are SERIOUSLY interested in custom manifolds, do a search on google.com for Hogan Racing Manifolds and Wilson Racing Manifolds. Both fabricate custom aluminum intakes but they arent cheap.

 

lets see here. .095 aluminum stock is pretty thick. i really don't think there will be too much of a problem with boost. as long as the boost isn't too high.

The problem with aluminum is that in its anealed form, it is very weak. when it is tempered, and cold worked, aluminum has a strenght that is close to steel. not quite as high, but close.

you will want to make good gasket surfaces, make them at least 1/4" wide.

As for sizes. take a measurement of the intake runners at its widest point. ie half way up. make a box that can span that. and have it maybe 2" high or however big the throttle body is.

drill holes and put bungs in for all of the sensors.

that is the best i could come up with, but remember i have never done this either.

good luck and take lots of pics and post them

andrew

 

oh yeah for which aluminum. i looked through one of my text books, and 2024 aluminum (t3) is the strongest on one of my lists. try that.

 

Well, honestly I do not wanna do this twice. I know basics on it... but just felt like asking in case somebody new how to do this... I rather know from an expert. Anyway, I will most likely be doing this sometime after Christmas. I have a project going, and a lot of expenses. I gotta 396 goin into the g/f's T/A. Got to make this. Got to pay the rest off on my engine and get my new tranny to hold up to it. I will take mucho picturos and keep everything posted to let you guys know how it worked. I think I will appreciate it all alot more when I am done with my car this summer (hopefully)


~Cory

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just use a stealth ram, it's cheap for what you're getting? Unless you've got everything sitting around and you do this all the time just getting setup to make the thing will cost you more then just buying the thing.

 

I wanted to say that earlier, but I was afraid people would think I was flaming him. When I look at the stealth ram I think tunnel ram meets fuel injection, kinda like a sheetmetal manifold, other than the fact that the gasket size is the 1205 standard performance size (as opposed to the 1206/1207 full race size).

 

<b>I have basic MIG welding experience, so I will probaly be using that to put it together.
</b>

I would say from personal experience that its a mistake to use a MIG for air-tight aluminum strong welds...

a TIG would be your best bet... its kind of like brazing but alot harder and takes more time usually, not to mention its welds are strong, better, etc.. for what you are trying to do.

this is part experince (coudnt manage those injector bungs on my performer RPM with just a MIG..)

and part hear-say, my father, the welder (doh) for DOT of florida fixes bridges. hes been a welder for 15 years and told me, stright up, a TIG is the best possible way to do what you (and me) are trying to do. makes sense?

 

I didn’t mean it as a flame, I meant it as lets look at this realistically. Unless you’ve got a specific design that isn’t covered in today’s market for a reasonable price, you’re wasting your time and money making your own. You are not going to get the runners tapered correctly, everything sealed up, machining done (If you think that you’re going to weld to Ľ” flanges without getting some warping…) for anywhere near that cost…

 

There is a bias against MIG in the ‘performance’ world which is undeserved. Most high end production stuff, whether steel, stainless or aluminum is MIG or Arc welded.

TIG will allow better control of the heat applied to the surfaces that you’re welding, which also leads to the characteristic ‘pretty beads’ that most TIG welds have. The problem is that very few TIG welders actually do a good job. It’s very common to find beautiful looking TIG’ed beads that have no penetration and will eventually break. If they’re going to have any strength, TIG welds in aluminum need to be raised some, because unlike with steel, even a good weld in aluminum can be up to half as strong as the rest of the aluminum.

Anyway, the point is that with a good mig and someone that knows what they’re doing you could do it fine, it probably won’t look as nice but it will probably be stronger assuming the MIG actually has enough power to weld the thickness aluminum that you’re using.

 

Here in San Diego, one of the Vette shop owners took a BBC Tunnel ram base & made his own plenum for it (just like the Stealth Ram, only for BBC) the Aluminum that he used was just <1/4" thick, to make good sealing surfaces. it was a very simple box with a lid that he sealed up with a simple rectangular gasket. he put this in a 4th gen Vette, it has been in "Vette" magazine a few times. it was a very simple design, & it worked out pretty well for him.

if you have the resources, I say go for it, sounds like a fun project. if not why not buy a stealth ram or similar, just to keep life simple.

BW

 

which is kinda silly considering accel already has sold for years a stealth ram look alike for big blocks (oval and square port) called the "big block superam". As well as another product, with the oval port tunnelram base with a plenum that looks like a superam (pizzabox shape) that has horned shaped pipes (inside of the pizza box!) called the "stealth ram oval port"!?!? WTF? see them hereHERE

 

Well I do not know about TIG welding. I do body work and am pretty damn good at it. Thats the basic welding i know. As for what is stronger... got me. I have heard both. I have never welded aluminum tho... so Im lost on that topic. Now as for making it look nice... I would prolly do a buildup..(more than one weld on the seam) and just grind it after to a nice pleasing looking seam. I am still debating on this project, because I was planning on replicating Accel's Superram Plenum and runners. I heard that flows upper RPM better than the Stealth Ram(HSR). I also dunno where to look for a HSR, and have no clue on prices.

I DO however have the tools to make my own intake, so in turn, if I had spare time, it may not be a problem.

How good does the HSR flow? How high up in the RPMS does it produce good until? Could somebody PM me or IM me (c-o-i-o-r-m-e-j-e-w-i-s-h) or even email me (CoryKickzAss@hotmail.com) and give me ideas on what to do. I really need help on feeding my new motor.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it
~Cory

 

Ever do something just to do it? It is an all aluminum, BBC with 6 speed tranny, & his own EFI in a 4th gen vette & the key was that it fit under the stock hood which the Accell unit would not have. Ever seen such a thing? sounds like a pretty cool project to me....... but then again I am the kind of guy that puts a V8 in a Datsun 2000, a 71 Camaro w/an OD tranny & EFI & runs a Fiberglass Manx with fogger nozzles on it. Not been one for following the crowd.

BW

 

Wow....I had no idea hogan manifolds were actually well known. THey are from my town....I know the guys daughter...shes hot

 

I've thought of exactly the same project before as well. I know very well though that I'm not likely to try it anytime soon. Intake design really interests me though, and I like learning anything I can about it. Anyways, it seems like it would be easy to make a new, larger plenum, similar to the superram which would use the stock (or aftermarket) runners in a shortened form. I think the most difficult problem with doing something like this with the stock runners would be attaching a flange or other type of connection with which to attach the top end of the runners to the plenum. The stock runners are very thin and don't give you much to work with there. Some of the aftermarket ones have enough material that it seems like they could be welded to a flange to bolt to your new plenum. It seems like a project like this would allow you to make any length runner that you want. Hey, even if it doesn't work, it would be fun to try. That is, assuming that you can get the aluminum stock for a fair price and learn to weld it ok.

I'm sure that there are other issues that ideally would be taken into consideration (plenum volume, pressure waves/resonances, etc), but don't know if they are normally done on a trial and error basis or designed beforehand.

 

Well guys, I'f I do.... I'll post mad pics for all of ya. If I have had this much trouble with it, I would rather others learn off my mistakes. I'll keep you posted if I begin doing it(make a new post and let everybody know I am back at it)


Thanks for the help though.... but I have to get specs measured for it so I could make it. If anyone would help... I need a diagram with the measurements. (I dont wanna go into this blindly and get sh!tty results)




~Cory

 

A while back, I bought a 9 bolt that needed gears from a guy who had a lil workshop, a bunch of tpi stuff and a pretty sweet GTA, he had made a copy of the superram himself, so I asked how much for him to make me one, he told me I better just go buy it from accel if i want it, cause the time involved in fabbing it up and the materials far exceed what you can just buy it for, so i'd say the same he did, get the superram or the stealthram and save yourself the PITA.

 

I just though of somthing, I think a holley (or maybe edelbrock?) Sells a do-it-your-self fuel injection rails / injectors etc... you put the injectors wherever you want by welding them into whatever manifold u want...

It would make putting EFI on a non-efi manifold (such as one you make) a lot easier... and would give you an idea on where they would have to go.

It wouldnt be too hard, in my opinion, to get the design down...
Its the actuall fabrication that kills you, getting everything perfect and airtight... then when you mess up on 1 spot... you gota start over again...

 

I'd have to agree with the others if its just so you can SAY Ya I made the intake myself. Thats Cool. but its def. a time comsuming to do it.

Over the last yr Ive been making a Carbon/kevlar SuperRam plenum. just to say i have a Carbon/kevlar SR. Its not as lights as you would think but not as heavy as a real SR I have layin right next to it.

Now comes the PITA part for doing it out of composits like I am.
The bolt holes.

Anyways. If you can get the metal lazer cut and tig it all together yourself It should be a nice project if your devoted, have the time and $.

 

its holley from the holley site: " Commander 950 Universal MPFI Kits - Commander 950 Universal MPFI Kits - P/Ns 534-183 & 534-184:
What if you could put Commander 950 fuel injection on anything? Have a 1954 DeSoto with a "Firedome?" No problem! How about a 1969 AMC AMX? Sure! With Commander 950 universal MPFI retrofit kits, you can fuel inject any V8 engine you desire.
With just a few additional components, you can be roaring down the road with a multi-point fuel-injected engine!
Includes:
Commander 950 ECU and pre-terminated harness.
1000 or 2000 CFM billet aluminum 4-barrel throttle body.
8/ Injector bungs.
Billet aluminum fuel pressure regulator.
MAP, coolant temperature, air-temperature, and oxygen sensors.
Comprehensive application installation instructions and tuning guide.
KEY FEATURES AND BENEFITS
1000 CFM (534-183) or 2000 CFM (534-184) throttle body for maximum airflow.
Industry-leading comprehensive application installation instructions and tuning guide are included to make converting your engine to EFI as straightforward as possible.
8/ Injector bungs are included to simplify intake manifold preparation.
The tuning precision and flexibility that only the Commander 950 software and electronics can provide.
Includes all necessary sensors and a pre-terminated harness to provide an easy and clean installation in any vehicle.

APPLICATIONS
Any vehicle with a V8 engine and 4150 or 4500 carburetor flange.
TARGET GROUP
Street Rods
Pro Touring
Off-Road vehicles
Drag Racing
Road Racing
RECOMMENDED ACCESSORIES
950-125 "Race" Software Upgrade

Requires:
* 4-Barrel carburetor intake manifold
* Fuel pump (sized to application)
* Fuel injectors (sized to application)
* Fabricated fuel rail hold-downs
* 30-100 micron coarse fuel filter
* 10 Micron high-pressure EFI fuel filter
* Throttle linkage
* Some fabrication and welding
* Assorted plumbing

 

the problem with the strength of aluminum isnt in the welds, but at the material. aluminum becomes strong when heat treated. and when you weld or introduce heat into aluminum like that, the heat treatment is lost. so in order to restore the strenth of aluminum, you need to heat treat the weld area again to get it strong again. this is the same for high strength steel tubing. but not as bad.

 

That is true of steel, but is not true of aluminum for a number of reasons. Yes, if cooled quickly after welding any part of that aluminum that got over 4-500* will be super soft (annealed), but if allowed to cool slowly or even with time (it will happen on it's own) it will reach it's previous hardness. But the real problem with aluminum is that most alloys that work for welding are substantially weaker then the alloys that you can weld with them, resulting in joints that are always in the range of 1/3 weaker then the surrounding aluminum even if you re heat treat it.