Hello guys. I was wondering what do you guys estimate I am puting out for horsepower to the CRANK. The engine is in my sig below and the blower is putting out 13psi of boost.


Were I live on march there will be about no less than 20-25 people coming to see a race between me and an oponent of mine. It is a war between import and old school muscle. He has an FWD eclipse with 20psi of boost and upgraded intercooler and fuel upgrade. (He will be running a drag radial) That is all as far as mods from him. Here are a couple of questions, I have my beliefs but i highly value you guys opinion.

I want to beat the living CRAP out of him so i am thinking of borowing full slicks for my car, worried about 10 bolt rear end I got a HD torsen posi and 3.43 gears. So here are the questions for you guys!

How much power do you guys estimate im producing?

Do you guys give me 3-4 passes on it full slicks(10 bolt rear)? I want to kill him of the line, REALLY badly (No tranny brake and 3000 stall)

Also will be runing race gas might bump the blower 10% overdrive. running straight-up 1:1 now. And uncorked headers.


Thank you again guys for all your comments and opinions will take them all into great consideration.

 

man! i don't know the specifics on you motor, but it sounds pretty hoss! i might guess in the 5-650hp range depending. don't put slicks on with that kinda power and a 10bolt. just go easy out of the hole. he is going to be going as fast as he can, so he will light those front tires up, easy to get around him if you feather it off the line. i would, however, suggest the 10% overdrive and the race, gas, just to make sure you ABSOLUTELY cream him. make sure to run the car out of gas before putting the race gas in and boosting up the boost...let us know how it all turns out. oh, if you can get your hands on a 9inch from moser, now would be the time to do it. then run the slicks!

 

Thanks man! What do you think about drag radials?

I got 18" corvette wheels with 295/40/18 tires , and in first they are useless, and in second gear after i hit 3000 rpm in WOT they will go up in smoke too(thats rolling into 2nd gear at low speed). These are stock heads that were just lightly cleaned up by me so power is probaly not too high LOL I just had a hard time saying that after driving it. I could only imagine what it feels like with real heads.

I know i might have the power to beat him but modulating this thing of the line is pretty tought with these tires.

The main problem is i cannot spend much before March (couple of houndred or so). So i want to do something that might make a slight difference with the money. Probably nothing save buying a full rear end. :-( I already went bankrup with this thing. Wife wont even let me look at the car the wrong way. So i am really open to opinions, any ideas on cheap hooking?!?!

So one vote for no slicks on 10 bolt! :-(


The race will be video taped, I will probably upload it to thirdgen.org. at worst case ill host it myself for you guys!

 

Without head specs, cam specs. Could be anything.

Either way, the eclipse will prolly spank him.

20psi on an upgraded (FMIC ?) eclipse is deep 11s.

-- Joe

 

Go to the track, and find out for yourself Or borrow/buy a G-tech Pro for $35... If you are launching the car correctly with real slicks, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance you'll snap an axle... First time I borrowed drag radials, it spun on the line, then figured out I needed a longer burnout. Tires were nice and sticky, and snapped the axle the next time. Anyways, your launch will make all the difference, and between a 1.7 and a 2.1 60', you'll probably see .8 difference at the far end...

Who cares about power to the crank. It's to the wheels that matters... Tuning for proper air/fuel will probably give you an extra 40 hp, so spend your cash getting a wide band 02 meter and some jets for the carb, and go tune. Cheap HP, run a 100 shot on a plate nitrous. Seat time and tuning is how you get consistently fast, not talking about it on the internet Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet...\

My vote is to spend the $300 going to the track 5 times ($100), a set of drag radials ($200 used) and begging someone to lend you his wideband to tune it.

 

Once again Joe, !

This is almost as far fetched as your buddies race shop that has "lightly modded" hondas running 12's all day long. In case you forgot, this should remind you what I am talking about. There is absolutly no chance that eclipse is even close to an 11, let alone a deep one. If it got a 12 I'd be suprised. Are you even familier with this type of car? The stock turbo on one of those is off it's map at 14 psi, let alone 20!!! FMIC or not, this setup would have some major detonation issues w/o a turbo upgrade which wasn't listed above. I don't know what you owe to the tuner crowd, or what you have against domestics for that matter, but you need to get off your knees. I have to go throw up now.

BTW, the only way to find out who's faster is to race, WAY too many variables to make a prediction (11's!?!?!?!, lol!). One suggestion for ya, figure out where you are going to race this kid, and go there before hand and perfect your launch with everything setup just how it will be when you actually race. This will hopefully save you a stupid mistake, which he will most likely make unless he does the same thing.

 

Blah blah blah, chevy rules, imports drool right.

Being someone who doesn't own a DSM, or a HONDA, I frankly have nothing to argue with you about. I don't care.

Hey, isn't Kingtal0n's new stock 4 banger going 12.9 at 107? No way, impossible..



-- Joe

 

I'm with askulte, run it and see, shouldn't be too expensive.

No DSM will run anywhere CLOSE to a deep 11 with only an upgraded IC and fuel, and I DO own a DSM.

Is it a 1G (90-94) or a 2G (95-99)? If it's a 1G, you'll kill him. If it's a 2G, you'll kill him much, much worse, that's if those are his only mods.

Make sure those are his only mods, it's easy to hide pretty decent upgrades on DSM's.

Even spinning, if you launch right you shouldn't have a problem taking him out of the hole fairly easy, and he won't ever catch you if you're running right. Once again I stress, that's if those are his only mods.

 

I'll jot you down as an expert.. *dab dab*. There you go.

if *I* were to guess, I'd say the guy running 20psi is Not running the 14b, prolly a larger turbo, a fmic (see them on ebay, cheap money), and a few other goodies.

But, I could be wrong.. He might be slow like yours, right?

I do know one thing. I got my *** whooped by those guys all summer long.

-- Joe

 

Wow, what a jerk.

There's no point in even bothering with you. I'm glad you know how 'slow' my car is too, being that I said absolutely nothing about it's mods.

 

I am well aware that i will have to go to the track and test this thing. I have been doing this for awhile :-). He has a stock 16g turbo upgrade. I just got off the phone with him and he is running 18psi. He still has a stock intercooler on it. And he got bigger injectors and a FMU to increse fuel pressure. I have taken a ride in his car it is pretty fast however, i havent been able to feel the true power of my car due to it really not hooking watsoever. I did a little research on a DSM website and his mods on a 98 eclipse (its a convertible by the way) runs between 13.6 to 12.7. (USUALLY!). In my camaro when i step on it and let go it smacks down so hard my sidepipes hit the floor. LOL AHAHAHA Dont get me wrong I actually really like his car. Ive advised him on what to do to his car and i have even fixed his car on ocassion. Its just a little friendly feud, (that i dont intend on loossing. LOL


I want crank specs since i have a good feeling of what the driveline losses. Just want a clearer power rating with no bs in between. Probably get it dynod for fun :-) By the way i tried the g-tech, and i swear im not lying I hooked it up and when i floored it it flew to the back seat and its never worked the same. I think i didnt hook the sucking cup well but it was funny and made me feel good about myself and my car.

my cars spec

355 7.5 compression forged bla bla. 333882 heads slightly cleaned up by me. Cam nitrous HP 224 236 dur .05 .447 .490 lift. Roller Rockers. Headers (will be open when racing). Holley blower carburetors (1200 total CFM) converted by me. Boost reference regulator. MSD 6BTM (Boost master controller). Blower pushing out 13psi of boost. 1:1 ratio.

3.42 rear end posi trac unit. TH350 tranny, 3000rpm converter, SFC, no back seat LOL. Hole in the hood (saves weight) I will get on a diet. Save weight! HA HA HA

Damn 10 bolt

 

You know, I was joking.

-- Joe

 

A 16G (big 16G or small 16G?) is one little step up from a stock 1G turbo (14B), but quite a bit better than a stock 2G turbo (T25). A big 16G is a tiny bit better still. If he's pushing it through a stock 2G intercooler, throttlebody, and head, it's still not flowing all that much at 18psi. On top of that convertibles are heavy pigs in comparison , and FWD doesn't help move that heavy pig, even on DR's really.

Are you sure he's using an FMU (did you mean AFC)?. That's odd for a DSM. If so, he must have an upgraded pump too because 2G stock pumps are weak. At any rate, even 550cc injectors (one step up, stock is 450) run pig rich if there isn't a way to control them, even if it's just a bandaid like an AFC, so he isn't running good if that's the case, on top of being flooded by an FMU. Just something doesn't sound right.

I'm guessing he has an upgraded exhaust too, otherwise he's hurting. He must have a better BOV as well because the stock 2G BOV won't hold over 12-14psi.

Look on www.dsmtimes.org in the FWD section, notice the slowest 16G powered car is running a 14.3, and the fastest 2G (big) 16G car is running a 12.6 @ 108 with a 1.8 60', I guarantee he has a lot more done than you say your friend does. (Yes I've been around this long enough to know, too ).

Take all that with a grain of salt and remember that you have ridden in his car, and driven yours, you would know better than any of us who would win. Take your car up to 3rd gear and go, it should hook then, no?
Anything can happen on the street, so good luck.

 

It sure didn't sound like it.

 

It is a small 16g, he told me he wanted the big one but thats what he had available at the moment. His exaust is stock save for the muffler. And you are right he does no have a FMU. Hes got a little on board computer with dials on it some kind of piggy back unit that his friend tuned with a laptop. They did not use a wide band! His got a slightly bigger intercooler he is putting in before the race. His internals are stock, heads TB etc.

I might have to start backhalfing the car soon then :0

 

if a limited budget is what you have and you
want some educated guesses to what you car
will run... go dyno it .. you can find out if your tune is close
and with a number people can give you a ruff estimate
on how it might run..

mike

 

are we talking 1/8 mile or 60' ?

ive only seen a few hondas run a 12 in the 1/4 that were set up and heavely moded for racing.. not streetable... there are exceptions to that but generaly i dont think you will see a import run that IMO..

 

Go hell, go to the track and learn to drive it… I haven’t seen any steet monkey that hasn’t learned how to run significantly faster by making a few passes at the track. I’ve shown a couple of friends how to cut over a second off of their 1/4mile at the track by watching what they did on their own during the first pass, then telling them what to change and giving them 4 or 5 passes to actually do the majority of what I tell them to try.



Heh, my current count is 7 sets of gears, 3 posies and 2 axles… Most were done on radials of sorts, but all but one were done on passes that I ran a 1.8 or better 60’ (yes, on radials).



Who cares about power at all if this is a race. My brother’s big 4 door has it’s best dyno run at 326hp and runs low 11’s at 120 all day with enough blowby that it makes it’s own smoke screen out the VC breathers.

What do you think goes through his head when he lines up against a 600hp dyno queen at the track and watches the guy turn a 13s ¼ through his rear view mirror?




Funny how it seems like everyone owns a 9, 10, 11, 12 second car until they take it to the track. Ever notice how a good 90% of the people at the drag strip are lucky to run faster then a 14?



OK, lets play a numbers game.

2L, is about 160hp at 100% VE at 6000rpm. 18psi intercooled with “normal losses” will roughly double that, so we’re talking about 320hp. I don’t know what those things weigh, but I’d be surprised if any decent sized vert weighs under 3400# loaded, which works out to about a 12.8@106mph ABSOLUTE BEST CASE, no screw ups, perfect traction, perfect driver, perfect gearing… mess any of that up and things get slow, FAST.

Ok, lets look at this another way… small 16g (T05H-16g): at 18psi it tops out at about .25Kg/s, meaning pushed to the absolute limit it’s good for about 350hp worth of air, assuming NO losses through the intercooler… It actually is at the point there that more boost will not result in more airflow.

 

I vote that you use slicks. Most races are won or lost in the first 60'. I have been running a 7.5" rear for 3 years on slicks. Stock axles even. My best 60' time is a 1.62. I have an afr headed 406 with 125 shot right off the line. Lots of torque! Nothing has broken yet. Runs 6.90's in the 1/8th mile. I'm probably on borrowed time but if you want to beat the guy you'll NEED them. You can mod the heck out of your engine but if you can't hook what good is it?

One night at the local street races a guy in a modded mustang with N20 kept getting beat by a Honda because he was launching with nitrous on street tires. Just a big burnout really. The Honda was on slicks and just took off without spinning.

When I say slicks I mean E/T streets or E/T drags. Not drag radials. I can't stress how important this is.

 

did you just say sidepipes? Do you have white letter tires and a big CB antenna too?

Hooking is everything, your car may feel fast as hell but that precious split second on the line where you are spinning and the other guy is moving makes a huge difference.

I run 28x10.5 slicks on my buick and on pump gas is probably good for mid to high twelves. Ive run cars on the street that should have atleast somewhat kept up but leaving at 3200 rpm on a couple pounds of boost with slicks turns what would normally be just a few car lengths into football fields (like the 13.2 sec LX 5.0 I raced the other night)

 

Hey Pablo suck my *$ck on the sidepipe CB comment.

I just bought a 9 Inch rear with 31 sline axles and 3.70 gears on it. Open diff. I bought a mini spool to use at the track. I will be welding the mounts from the 10 bolt to the 9 Inch to make it a bolt in. Well sort off. Ill see how well 500lbs of torque hooks up. :-)

 

*** wondering if he has a ******? j/k :lala: :lala:

 

mu-l l-et is banned.. huh silly.. but was wondfering if he has a mull-et....


:lala:

 

DB

 

hahahah for some reason I have "rock you like a hurricane" playing in my head envisioning this car

 

i don't car if the car has side pipes and he is wearing overalls and a ****** with big side burns. he has a blower sticking through the hood of his camaro! that's frickin' great!

 

Here is a picture of my "Red Neck" car!


thanks mw66nova!

 

whats on the front tag? a s or a skull? that bio tch is pretty phat.. im wondering why your worrieing about some RI CE? its like a pit running from a kitten.. if i were you i would do the follwing

1. launch
2. get next to him
3. look and smile
4. floor it
5. get a car lengh lead
6. let off gas completely
7 repeat steps 2 through 6 as nessasary.
8. pull over and talk about how fun that was..


i actually have a parts car berlenetta with side pipes.. its pretty cool... no cb antenna or mull et though.. it will rock you like a hurricane though...



-Tony

 

I say run the slicks, change the rear end fluid and pray.

Might want to invest in some NX, I'd do a 200 shot spray if I had my manhood on the line But a 125 should do the trick..I'd open up the NX at 3800rpm in second till your redline and keep it up

 

Heres an (old) picture of my "not so Red Neck" car, before the new setup. (when it only ran a slow 119mph in the 1/4)