I went to the junkyard today and I found to early 90's DSMs. Both were 5 speeds and the turbos looked good. They had no play side to side or front to back. My only question is, will these be 16g turbos. They said TD05H right on them but I could not see any other numbers on them. I am building a 355 and I want to rebuild them myself. I really want them to be internally wastegated. The motor will be a fully forged bottom end with dished pistons to bring the CR to about 8:1 with 64cc heads. I am going to run copper head gaskets and possibly "Total Seal" rings(if you guys think they would be good). I want to run AFR 210s with a victor intake. As for the carb. and cam I am not sure yet. I do not know of any blow thru carbs. specifically so if someone could point one out that would be great. I am basing the cam on the power range these turbos will be good for(if they will work at all). Also, is there an ignition system that will allow me to run my electronic advance dizzy with out my computer so I dont have to worry about detonation. I know this is alot and I have searched and bought the book by Hughes MacInnes but I still need help. Thanks for any replies.

 

Check out this site
http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm

It has a lot of Mitsu. turbo info.

 

Thanks for the link. I will have to check them out. In your opinion, do you think these will be big enough?

 

AFR 210cc heads are ~ Felpro 1206 gaskets, at least that's what my shop said.

I'd probably second think on the total seal rings... one our members about pulled the lands off a piston one time running nitrous and the gapless rings.

I'd just get a nice set of file fit iron ductiles if it were me.

 

Here is what I found on that link. I am not sure what all it means but I think I have an idea. I am not sure if the turbos are 16g(small) or the 14g, so I post both.

16G
practical max cfm 470
min cfm@2.0 PR 145
Choke Flow CFM 520


14G
practical max cfm 420
min cfm@2.0 PR 150
choke flow cfm 480

Is the CFM the chart is talking about the CFM from my exhaust or am I way off. The site also gives all the specifics on both turbos. I am trying to figure this out to see if they will work.

 

No, the CFM he is talking about is the CFM of the intake. Some people use lb/min and some use CFM (Cubic Feet/Minute).
If you look at the bottom of that page he lists the compressor maps. The "PR" is the pressure ratio. A PR of 2.0 is about 15psi. A Garrett 60 trim T3 flows about 490 at 15psi (PR of 2.0). Look at the compressor map he has at the bottom of the page. If all of his data is correct, then the TD05-16G(small) is slightly LARGER than the Garrett 60 Trim T3. The TD05-14G is slightly SMALLER than the Garrett 60 Trim T3.
Also, each lb/min is *roughly* about 10 Horsepower. To get lb/min divide CFM by 14.5.

So, one of the 16G(small) compressors at 15psi at 60% efficiency can support about (10* 520 CFM/14.5) = 355HP
The 14G would be (10* 470 CFM/14.5) = 320HP
The garrett 60 trim would be (10* 470 CFM/14.5) = 335HP

That is what the compressors COULD support for HP, not what your engine will make for HP. I am guessing that the turbine A/Rs of the TDxx turbox are sized appropriately. You would need to remove one or get the info to do the A/R calculation.
Multiply the above HP numbers by two if doing a twin turbo setup. Keep in mind the above HP numbers are the compressor MAX. If you lower the psi, then HP goes down. In general, they look to be roughly equiv. to a Garrett 60 Trim compressor.

The 210 AFRs flow a lot of air, the Victor flows a lot of air. What kind of HP are you after. If the info at that website is correct, then you could make a 400HP - 650HP+ engine with those turbos(also depends on turbine A/R) if parts are chosen correctly in terms of cam and exhaust.

I know nothing about carbs. I went to EFI because I could never get a carb tuned right on N/A engines. Is the car EFI right now? Electronic dizzy?

 

Thanks for all the info. I have to get out and get the numbers of them. I have not decided on the cam yet. I think I might have one custom ground. Thanks

 

My only problem is I do not know how to read a flow chart. I bought the book by Hughes McInnes but I still have not quite figured it out, so if someone could teach me how or let me give them my engine specs and they could tell me if they would work. I have desktop dyno(I know this is not the most accurate tool, but I do not know how much power it will make) if they need an HP guess. Thanks

 

Yeah, that is a problem. Here is one way to do the calcs. This will give you a rough idea of the numbers you need to read the compressor map.
Go to:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turbocalcs.xls

1 enter in your max rpm and engine cubic inch
2 enter in your engine VE (depends on cam, heads,etc) leave at 75 if you don't know
3 enter number of turbos
4 leave comp %efficiency at 65 (for now)
5 leave paro pressure at 29.2 (assumes car is at sea level)
6 change ambient temp to the temp outside which you want (summer/winter temperature)
7 change conditions at comp outlet, outlet press to the boost level you want
8 changes conditions at intercooler outlet to the boost level you entered above (no intercooler), OR drop the psi 1lb or 2lb if using an decent? intercooler
9 change the manifold temp to the temp called conditions at compressor outlet, outlet temp if no intercooler, OR drop that temp by the intercooler effieciency amount

Now look down the spreadsheet for the "data for turnonetics comp maps". Use the corrected suction flow and pressure ratio.
Print out a compressor map. Take one ruler and lay it across the comp map at the pressure ratio. Take the other ruler and lay it up the map at the lb/min corrected suction flow number. Where they meet is the comp. % effieciency.

Now plug that number into where you did step 4 above and see how much HP you gain or lose and how the suction flow and pressure changed.

Try changing the rpm in the spreadsheet and do it all over again to get an idea how rpm changes horsepower. Then try changing your boost psi.

This will give you enough info to determine ROUGHLY you HP numbers. It is mainly for seeing if a compressor map (turbo) is usable.

Keep asking questions if it doesn't make sense. Post what you find. Others might take a look and verify that you did it correctly or suggest other (easier?) ways of doing it.

J

 

Thans for the link, I will have to check it out. I have another question though. Is there any way to run my electronic dizzy and knock sensor without my TPI computer. I would like to even if I have to buy an after market ignition that it will work with. Thanks

 

The ECM senses knock from the knock sensor and commands the dizzy to retard timing. There is no sense having a knock sensor if the ECM is removed. You can buy an ignition box with timing retard for boost.
In my setup, I used the stock 1992 TPI MAP ECM and put a Syclone chip in it so that it senses boost and adjust fuel and timing for it.
There a lot of options in terms of ECM, fuel management, timing management. It all depends on how much you want to learn about the ECM vs. how much you want to spend.
I went with 42#/hr ford injectors. They cost $250 - $300 for a new set. I bought a Syclone MAP sensor for $50. So the total I had into fuel & timing was $325. I already had the PROM burning equipment. You could keep the stock ECM and use a boost timing retard box and a FMU. I don't know what they cost. You would also have to figure out the fuel PSI with the injectors you have to make the HP you want. I am guessing it would be really high with the stock 24#/hrs. That puts more strain on the fuel pump. Do a search for that stuff. I don't know much about it.

J

 

My only problem is I am going carb. with this new motor so I am pulling the ecm and harness. I did not know if there was an after market ignition that would allow me to run my electronic dizzy and a knock sensor so if I had detonation it could pull some timing out.

 

Man, I was hoping someone would know of one. If anyone does let me know. Thanks

 

MSD 6BTM?

 

There’s a bunch of choices depending on how much you want to spend or build (you have to do one or the other).

People have hacked truck ECM’s to run just timing on carbed cars, that would probably be the cheapest and the most work.

There are tons of things that you could do in between, like swap to a mechanical advance/vacuum advance distributor, and then run a 3rd party timing controller. There is one that starts with a ‘j’ that was pretty popular with the mustang guys for a while that specifically worked off a knock sensor. I think that MSD or crane makes a knock retard controlled retard box also. You can also do a manual or a pressure sensitive boost retard using a MSD 6 BTM or a Crane Hi6 TRS.

The other end of the scale is to use one of the new Crane distributors, which is all electronic, with advance curves settable by 2 dials on the bottom of the distributor body under the cap and is even capable of doing pressure and other external retards…

 

Thanks guys. I plan on checking on both. I hope I can find one that will work with my stock dizzy. I will have to do some more research then.

 

Okay, I have kind of strayed from the TDO5h A little. I have been loking at the CT-26 from late 80's early 90's supras with the 3.0l inline six. I think these will allow the boost to come one a little later. What do you think. Thanks

 

CT-26.........never heard or saw one. Please post the specs if you measure one.

 

Here is a link to the TD05h compressor map which is what I was originally looking at.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...&TopicID=42329

 

All of those compressor maps are for a Garrett T4 compressor. You can find more compressor maps like that at www.majesticturbo.com. I don't know of any automotive vehicles that came with a T4 turbo. You won't find any of those turbos on a stock engine in a car junkyard.

Which compressor map does the CT-26 turbo look like?

 

I have not found one for the CT26. If you scroll down one the link it will show the compressor map for the TD05h. I will keep checking.

 

Those Mitsu (TDxx) maps are the same as the ones at the stealth316 site. I thought you trashed the TD05 idea and wanted a CT-26?
Did you figure out the lb/min of air and pressure ratio you desire using the gncalculator?

 

I have not completey given up on the mitsu turbos, but I think the CT-26 will boost a little later and not be a restriction in the higher rpms. I cannot find any more info on either turbo other then what I have posted. I am kinda stuck. If anyone knows more about them or can tell me a site that I have not checked yet that would be very helpful. Thanks

 

CT-26 is small. I had one on both supra, and I started putting one on a 3.1 bird before the motor exploded. Don't bother.

-- Joe

 

Is it smaller then the TD05h mitsu turbo. I figured it would be bigger since the supra is a 3.0 inline six and the mitsu is a 2.0 four cylinder.