I was just wondering what fluid people are using in their paxton's and what success they are having. I heard Ford ATF is what to use, but wanted to see what your guy's input was. I have some valvoline ATF in mine now, but am worried it might be bad for the unit and need to know if I should change it. What does paxton recommend? What do you use?

I got the squealing to stop (see my other post) by tightening my tensioner pulley... but when I opened the garage I found it had been raining. So I was getting no traction and couldn't really test out how fast it was. I need a rev limiter now too (MSD 6AL) cause from what i've read the unit red-lines at 4800 rpm, which kind of sucks because i used to shift and 5200-5400 at the track and 4800 is there really fast. Maybe a larger pulley would work better?

Thanks for any help.

 

Use B&M trick shift.And if you got the oil cooler setup get the biggest B&M tranny cooler you can find and install it in place of the Paxton supplied one.I Dont think regular tranny fluid with no cooler can handle the heat and breaks down pretty fast.Friends only lasted a couple thousand miles with regular tranny fluid and no cooler.

 

Ok. I'll go get some trick shift. Can I buy it at any regular place or do I need to order it from summit or a speed shop? I'll pull the blower off for now until I get some. I don't have a cooler for it, and don't really want to spend all the money for the paxton one. Is there anyway to rig a regular tranny cooler to work with my unit, like just fab up some kind of fitting to go in the dipstick opening? Cause coolers are pretty cheap from looking in summit.

 

This subject is a very sore one for me because of how Paxton changes their "recommended" fluid constantly.

First, I was told to run any Type F transmission fluid. When the blower needed its first rebuild, I was told it was because I used fluid other than Motorcraft (which is impossible to find locally).

Then I was told to use B&M Trick Shift. When the blower needed its second rebuild, I was told it was because of the fluid. What? Then I was told to use any brand Type F fluid. Around and around it goes.

This is when I gave up on Paxton.

------------------
Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
Former Paxton (6-psig): 12.57 @ 111 mph.
Former Paxton (6-psig) & former 50-hp nitrous: 12.04 @ 114 mph.
Current ATI D1SC (Initially 10-psig): Projecting high 11's.
Future ATI D1SC (15-psig): Gotta catch them pesky 26-psig boosted TTA's!!

http://willie.camaro-firebird.org/

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

 

Use type F that meets ford specifications and you will be fine.

Your blower redline depends on your crank and blower pulley size. For example. I have a 6" crank pulley in a 3.25" blower pulley. I produce 8lbs of boost at 4700RPMs. Believe me , 4700 RPMS is plenty for a TPI. Especially a stock TPI like yours!

Revving any higher offsets where your engine makes the most power and will make you slower anyway. Ever read TPIS insider hints? Even with heavily modded L98s, they got their best times shifting at around 4500 RPMs.

------------------
91 Formula 1LE 1 of 46
305 TPI 5speed
1LE/G92/WS6

Paxton SN92 supercharger(SN93 upgrade), Ford SVO 24#injectors, Crane AFPR,SLP airfoil, ported/polished plenum, March alt. pulley,Crane Gold 1.6rrs,MSD coil,MSD6AL (5200rpm limit),Holley 9mm wires,Ac delco R43ts plugs,custom chip,Bosch O2sensor,SLP 1 5/8" headers,SLP catback,shortened shifter,3:73s w/Auburn posi,170* t-stat,JET 195* fan switch, Macewen white face gauges, Autometer gauges, Zoom hi-performance clutch.

 

Also, how many lbs of boost are you getting at blower redline?

Some things to take into consideration.

Get colder plugs (R43TS)

Ford SVO 24# injectors (if your boost is high like mine)

Change fuel filter

Relocate your battery

Put timing back to stock (6btdc)

Get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. With 4lbs of boost you should be ok with the stock 19# injectors. Anything more (like 8lbs!) I would go with Ford SVOs .

To give you an idea of some numbers. GPZ406 had an SN92 that made 8lbs at 4700 RPMs as well. On his 1991 Z28 SLP performance package equipped (internally stock) car, he made 2 11.6 passes at around 116mph. He did over rev the blower to do it though. He lives about half an hour from me and I've seen his car many times.

ALso voodoofighter (also on this site) had an 87 T/A 5.0 auto. Internally stock as well with only bolt ons. With an SN92 Paxton he hit 12.3 in the 1/4. All these guys were at close to 0 elevation by the way. I hit 12.8 on gtech with only 4.5 lbs of boost. Now with the smaller pulley im shooting for low 12s.



[This message has been edited by theformula (edited May 28, 2001).]

 

Thanks for all the input.

I guess I'll disconnect my blower for now and go to the ford dealer to get some type F and then look for trick-shift.


Let me try to answer some stuff for you theformula.

>> Relocate your battery

I moved my battery to the passenger side, so my intake tubing is only about 16" long to the blower intake now. I isolated the K&N filter with a piece of plastic so all the hot radiator/engine compartment air isn't sucked up.

The problem is, when I went to get some longer cables, the only ones i could find were 4 guage, and since I needed about 65" of cable, i think that I might have trouble starting soon. Where can I pick up some 2 guage and connections?

I will shift at lower points, but I know that I got about .1 to .2 sec faster in the 1/8th shifting at about 5200 rpm than I did at 4700 rpm when I was N/A.

I am so worried about fluid because when I drove it hard, and stopped someplace to eat, I touched the blower and burned myself. I couldn't even pull out the dipstick. That was after about 25 mins of driving. The oil after about 3-4 days and 50 miles is starting to turn darker. I figure if I don't get a cooler, at the track I am going to ice the blower in between runs.

Speaking of coolers, is there any way rig up a way to use a cooler without buying paxtons? I don't really care if it looks good or not, just if it's functional.


>> Put timing back to stock (6btdc)

>> Get colder plugs (R43TS)

I have what I thought were colder plugs in already (R44TS).. I just changed them about 1000 miles ago.. and timing is at exactly 6 deg BTDC.

>> Get an adjustable fuel pressure

>> regulator. With 4lbs of boost you should

>> be ok with the stock 19# injectors.

>> Anything more (like 8lbs!) I would go

>> with Ford SVOs .


I have made my fpr adjustable.. but it is sitting at stock fuel pressure. I'll get another guage (mine broke) and see what it is at. What would be a good pressure to start with?

I am not sure about boost. I think I saw about 6-7 lbs when I floored it at about 4800 rpm. It's hard to not over-rev and look at the boost at the same time, but I know I have definately seen at least 5lbs of boost.

>> To give you an idea of some numbers.
>> GPZ406 had an SN92 that made 8lbs at 4700 >> RPMs as well. On his 1991 Z28 SLP
>> performance package equipped (internally >> stock) car, he made 2 11.6 passes at
>> around 116mph. He did over rev the blower >> to do it though. He lives about half an >> hour from me and I've seen his car many >> times.

>> ALso voodoofighter (also on this site)
>> had an 87 T/A 5.0 auto. Internally stock >> as well with only bolt ons. With an SN92 >> Paxton he hit 12.3 in the 1/4. All these >> guys were at close to 0 elevation by the >> way. I hit 12.8 on gtech with only 4.5
>> lbs of boost. Now with the smaller pulley >> im shooting for low 12s.

Those are some incredible times! My goal is to beat a completely stock 1998-2001 M6 Z28. That my brother is buying in the next month. He isn't a very good driver, so I expect 13.5 out of him at best. I was hoping to hit the 13's w/ just the blower and maybe some injectors and eprom work. My brother talks smack about the LTR setup of the TPI and I wanted to show him how cheaply I can go fast. I have nitrous if I need it.

 

The blower is supposed to be that hot. All it is , is an air compressor. No reason to ice it at the track. It will just get hot quickly again. ICE the plenum.

You can find the battery accessories in the oil section of Pep Boys. I just bought the appropriate cables and extended it. Same for the alternator.

6-8lbs of boost I'd say was time for 24# injectors. Theres no reason you shouldnt see 12 second timeslips with a little tuning.

You will DEFINITELY need higher fuel pressure. On the stock 19#ers with 6#s of boost you will need in the 50s.

I have 8lbs of boost and run about 55psi @ WOT on 24# ford injectors. Get a scan tool and do some tuning. Look for 02 voltage (just to get an idea, not to tune), knock retard, and timing. A great loss in power could be due to timing retard, so look into how much your getting. I wouldnt tolerate anything more than 12 degrees on a blown car.

Also, get an MSD box with a rev limiter set to your blower redline. THe factory tach can be extremely unreliable .

You can also buy an Autometer tach with shift light.

As for the oil cooler, I havent heard of anyone rigging one up homemade. I would just save the money and put it towards a "rebuild" fund. I know guys who have had the oil cooler and still got blower failure shortly after.
Just my 2 $.02

 

By the way. You can use any type f fluid that meets ford specifications. I use a walmart brand lol

I have been ever since I've had the blower.

Also, when you feel like you've been "abusing" the blower, change the fluid. If you dont have the stuff to do it. All you do is take the top off a windex bottle, stick it down into where the dipstick goes, and squirt the fluid into a separate containter. Takes 5 minutes.

The rev limiter is also very important. With Paxton Sn series, you will find you either have a lemon..or a good blower. Most are lemons but a few (like mine knock on wood ) are hanging around. I have started a rebuild fund just in case.

I run my car a little rich so I dont have to worry about an "engine rebuild" fund too

 

That trick with the windex bottle sprayer worked great! It's a pain to take this thing off because I have to put my tensioner on after I put the belt on cause it's a real tight fit. So using the sprayer makes it so I can change the fluid at the track! I just changed my fluid so I can drive down to pep boys or wherever to get some type F.. they should have some I am assuming? Anybody rigged up a cooler to their paxton without the $200 kit?

 

Whoops, didn't see your first post theformula. What size cable did you run to extend your battery? Cause mine is 4 guage i just got from Pep Boys yesterday and they didn't have anything long enough that was bigger.

My next purchase (as soon as paycheck comes in) is an msd 6AL. I have a BTM from a vortech sitting around, so I could use that too then. Then I am going to buy a cable so I can scan my car w/ a laptop and then a cheap so I can look at timing/knocks/etc .. Then finally a used autometer tach w/ shiftlight from one of those import guys. I see them for about $75-100 all the time. Then maybe some injectors. Man.. blowers are expensive. I hope it doesn't break. If it does i think i'll just buy a LT1 Trans Am car and vortech it..

 

I got the thickest gauge they had. Cant remember. Anyway my volts were fine after that. Actually they dropped when it got hotter outside. I dont think it is related to goign to smaller gauge battery cable wiring because I would of noticed it A LONG time ago.

The blower should be ok. Just don't over rev it and keep the oil changed. One thing at a time. But trust me, it never ends. Once you encounter your first LS1 kill it will all be worth it. You can trust me on that one

 

By the way I wouldnt use that BTM. I had one and sold it. Retarding timing = less hp. You should put the fire out with fuel!

Just takes a little more work.

 

Well.. I went to Pep Boys and it was closed for labor day. I'm glad too, cause I went to autozone next and i found out that they sell B&M Trick Shift there. So I picked some up and filled my S/C in the parking lot. The stuff was kinda pricey ($3.95) and also blue but it's probably way better than what I was using. I was watching my boost and never saw more than 4-5, but again, it's real hard to watch the tach and the guage.. i have a manual. I measured the pulley (as best I could) and it looked 3.6-3.7 inches. I have the crank pulley that paxton gives with every kit. With a S/C pulley that big, would it be safe to rev the engine higher? This is an SN2000.

 

"The stuff was kinda pricey ($3.95)" LMAO!!! Try the Paxta Trac fluid at $25 or $30 a quart, then you can say kinda pricey and my @ss hurts to! The B&M stuff is a good type F product, I recommend it, and it's what Paxton put in the Paxta Trac bottle and marketed as their own. Never put any kind of synthetic in the blower, or it's rebuild time! The B&M stuff is just grittier and has more grip, that's why it works well in trans, clutches dont slip as much. B&M fluid, a cooler, very regular oil changes and not over revving or abusing the blower and it should see a good service life. Also a lot of people think the B&M stuff is just some brand of typeF fluid, I think it has less additives so it grips better.
Ryan you sure are getting the hang of things!

 

Well, $3.95 seems link a pretty good deal now! I think that I have a larger pulley ~3.6 inches, so I feel better about the red-line on the blower. I'd actually prefer a larger pulley that doesn't put as much boost out if it means that I don't have to re-build this thing from over-revving. I bought the blower off some kid who had it on his car for 4 days before someone T-boned him. So the blower is practically new (when I got it, the belts still had the markings on them perfectly and the air-filter was super white.). I am hoping for this to last at least a year or two, until I can afford an LT1.

I am going to order a 6-AL very soon.

 

Forced_GTA If you want a bigger Blower pulley I have one right now, $25. LMK! I need to know if your Blower is a 2 key or single key snout also, if your interested?

 

With a 3.5" blower pulley and 6" crank your blower redline should be around 5k. I have the formula at home to calculate it. 6lbs of boost is what you should be seeing (roughly). If you want to keep your shift points high, Blown85ta has a 4.5" blower pulley that allows a blower redline in the 6ks! Shifting at 5200, the blower will last a while!

I had it on my car and saw about 4 -5lbs of boost.

 

I know it isnt constructive, but
PAXTON SUCKS!

I had one of those lemons. I had it rebuilt three times in one summer. I eventually got a brand new one and the same thing happened to the guy I sold the new one too.

Time to retool.
I bought a vortech.

 

and the sad thing is 90% of Paxtons are lemons. For me so far so good no problems on an 80k mile 7 year old blower. But you just never know . The paxton blower should be a star in that movie final destination.

[This message has been edited by theformula (edited May 29, 2001).]

 

I was thinking of selling my Paxton now that my original 100K 305 has developed a bad intermittent knock (or something still have good oil pressure and feels fine just sounds awful), and using the money to buy a used short block then heads/cam/headers/intake etc, then getting a vortech or ATI (probably vortech cause they seem more reliable). I guess my water injection didn't work or something. Having the paxton makes me very paranoid about it breaking that it is almost not enjoyable having it. I think i might just sell it and spend the money on a new and warrantied ATI/Vortech after I put a 350/355 in my car. I was looking to see if it would be possible to mount a vortech on paxton brackets, but the paxton tubing definately won't fit as well as the need for the addition fuel pump and lines to tap into the oil pan. By the time I buy all that garbage I might as well have the whole kit. I think I am going to go to the track and run it once, then sell it. Maybe I'll buy a 5.0 and go really fast with a vortech. Who knows.

 

Guido Come on man I expect better of you!
The pulley combo I use is a crank: Combo under drive for the accessories and then a 7" overdrive for the Blower all made in a one piece item. I have a 4" pulley on the Blower, but was looking for a 4.5". The 7" was for a stock TPI, mine is not stock and needs to rev a little higher, so the 4" helps offset it. I have Formula's old pulley and it's a 4.25" blower pulley, that's the one I thought Forced_GTA might want. The 4.25" pulley is a single keyway on the snout, I needed a double keyway and a 4.5".

 

Blown_85: I'll email you about the pulley. Mine just has a single nut holding it on so I don't know what will work.

[This message has been edited by Forced_GTA (edited May 29, 2001).]

 

Forced_GTA They all have one bolt holding the pulley on. If you remove that and the metal washer underneath you will see either a single or two key snout. My better judgement says that you have the single keyed snout, but you should check and email me.

Guido How do you edit your post without it saying it was edited, is that a Mod thing?

 

Edit it without showing it? There is no way to do that.

I dont know what you expect from me but Paxton sucks! Get this. I bought one used. Put it on and got no boost. It did notsqueel or make any weird noises it just did not give me any boost. So I took it off and sent it in. 3 months later I finally got it back. They said they were retooling for a closer tolerence bearing. I figure cool if its going to be better I guess worth the wait.

I get it back and bolt it on and STILL, no boost. Have it on for maybe 2 months and Im driving along the freeway that summer and it starts squalling. The compressor locked up under normal highway loading. WTF? So I send it back and they repair it for free since it had been in there 2 months prior. I get it back like 3 weeks later. I put it on and drive it back and forth to work. No freeway driving. By this time its early september. I counted the days. 12 days I drove the car back and forth to work. Im driving home and once again it starts squalling. I must EXPRESS that I DID NOT over rev the paxton. It has been impressed onto me over MANY MANY telephone conversations with their guys (I dont even remember who the guy was I talked to but he was a real great guy to work with) that I should nto over rev the car.

So I call them back and I was pissed to say the least. They tell me to send it back to them and they will send me a BRAND NEW compressor. So they send me the new one. I never even opened the box. I sold the BRAND NEW blower and the rest of the kit I had for $1200. $1200 measly bucks when its about double that new. I bought my mini ram with that money and saved up enough to purchase my Vortech S-Trim.

Oh yeah, the best 1/4 time I ever had with my Paxton was a 13.30 @ 103

When I took it off, and ran the best I got was a 13.25 @ 105.

That is my story and why I hate Paxton. Their ball driven superchargers are built of poor quality. They have poor and OLD engineering in them. And given the service record, Paxton is STUPID for still selling them.

------------------
-86 IROC
Jacked up like a mother!
this years goal: 10.50 @ 130+ mph
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Guido I have heard this before, I know the story but its about a busted blower you bought used, and bad service. Honestly who knows what the guy before you did to it? You should have tried the new blower they sent you, but I understand you were just fed up. They are much better now, and the new impeller helps them a good deal. Paxtons service does suck @ss, we all know that. Paradise Wheel is the only place to get good service and rebuilds on the SN series of blower. They HIGHLY advise a cooler for the SN series. Paradise really knows how to make that ball drive work, they can make a SN series into a 15PSI and 1500CFM VR4 race blower, and it will live on the street at 12LB's of boost(with adequate cooling). I dont believe you ever abused it, I just believe it was busted when you got it and Paxton was not fixing it.
Remember when your venting about the Paxton blowers and how they suck your also slamming a LOT (probably more Paxtons on thirdgens than any other blower) of guys equipment and rides at the same time. I could give you ten horror stories about Vortech and why their product is not perfect either, but I wont...
Because that would offend the Vortech owners.

Vortech does have good customer service as does ATI, but have heard some bad about both service departments before also. Perfect is just real hard to do.

As far as reliablity goes I dont feel that any Blower built is as reliable as a properly matched turbo. I have seen them ALL break transmissions(ball, gear or belt), crack impellers or come loose, leak oil etc...
Remember the centrifugal has only been in SERIOUS development for the last 10 or 12 years, so their is still a lot for the builders to learn and more mistakes to be made. The great thing about superchargers now is all the competition between companies for your $3000, this is what has really started rapid development. It's great to see a new, better, design ever year or two.

 

You bring up some good points.
point in case. a friend of mine Kenwood lives over by Cincinnati. He has a Paxton ball drive on his 87 GTA. Ive been with him COUNTLESS times recording Diacom data on his car and every time his car would rev to 5500 rpms and he does it consistantly. He runs the race fluid (what he has left) the better impeller 11psi, and beats the snot out of it reving to 5500 when he drags it and that thing is a glutton. It takes it and keep on kicking back. His mods are SLP runners, and headers and full exhaust on top of the Paxton and his best is a 12.55 @ 113. Pretty amazing I say.

But his is one of the good ones I guess. I cant believe he over spins it, beats on it and it still lives.

 

I can fill in a huge gap here. Guido bought the used SN from a guy I knew here in Tucson. I acted as the contact person. It should be noted that before I even told Guido about this blower, I personally fitted it onto my car (I had my own SN blower then) and tested it. It produced 10 psig, the same as my SN blower. And the owner told me it was only three months old.

I believe the reason why Guido saw minimal boost (2 psig?) is because his engine is not what you could call "stock". The 10 pounds was on a stock 305. I was very confident that the blower Guido got was working when I mailed it. In fact, I seriously considered buying it myself as a backup.

Willie

 

What is weird is that he never showed improvements that the blower should provide, even on a modified engine. I know what your saying about boost is a backpressure measurement, and better engine=less boost on the gauge and all. Put a good intake and a set of heads on a TPI car and the boost will drop, but 2lb is just to low. I think Guido got in on the Paxton at the failure point. It would take one big flowing engine to drop boost all the way down to 2LB. But even if it showed 2LB and was functioning correctly it would be moving an @ss load of CFM for any small block at that low of PSI. So that should have equated to some real power with all that CFM. I could understand if the pulley set was not matched well, and his engine flowed like a 500CID not seeing much PSI. But 10LB on a 305 should equate to about 5-6LB on a well flowing engine. It just sounds like the blower drive was slipping and not boosting. Willie look at your times with your Paxton, then you say his engine was much better than stock, and he is still running mid 13's? That only equates to around 320HP or so. Honestly though who can judge when the blower will fail, at least sometimes the Paxton ball drive lets you know when it's time to remove the belt!

A great comparison would have been if Guido had removed the original Paxton and used the Brand New unit. Then installed the Vortech without changing anything else. Then their would have been some real hard evidence to compare.