Well, im looking at tearing into the car for a winter project, personally i love the car but for the ammount of fuel it drinks and the power it makes (which isnt too bad) at this point i would still rather drive my truck w/ 450hp+/800lb/ft+ and still get 18+mpg intown while having fun. the car on the other hand is fun but not so much when you have to pull up to the pump every half hour...

Anyways onto the point... Their is an old thread kicking around here where a guy had a TBI/blower setup that laid down pretty respectable numbers (500hp?) and was still getting 20+mpg on the highway.

That being said, i would like to try something like a weiand 250 blower and a pair of holley TBIs ontop of it. Holley sells complete TBI units in either 4 or 2bbl/650-900cfm, i would like to use 2 tbi units to keep that oldschool 2x4 look. What would be my best option for controlling such a setup? megasquirt?

Would something like this even be worth the effort?

If not, i was also thinking of something like a holley SR and a turbo...

 

You are comparing a diesel to a gas engine. There is a big difference. You are comparing an injected engine to a carb that may need tuning. There is a big difference.

That SC and TBI setup that gets 20+ MPG has been tuned. Keep that in mind. Is the SC with TBI better than a TC with a SR intake? It all depends on the "look" you are after.

The cheapest route to get 500HP and 20+ MPG would be to buy a used stock TPI unit and put a DIY turbo setup on it. The fuel parts on the TBI setup are going to eat you alive.......price out the fuel pumps (yes, pumps), the TBI units, the VAPR, etc. All that stuff is simple for PFI. All you need is a wal-bro 255lph and inectors or FMU.

If all I wanted was 20+ MPG and 500HP then I would buy a used TPI unit and leave it stock, get 8 42#/hr injectors, a wal-bro 255lph pump, cut-up stock TPI exh. manifolds or headers, use a 58-65mm inducer turbo / T4 flange turbine, water/alky spray, no intercooler. The most important part for the 20+ MPG and 500HP would be to install an MS-I (cheaper model) AND a WBO2 (I would use a JAW-WBO2 for about $120 complete). The entire setup would cost less than $2,000. The TBI setup would cost 1.5 to 2.5 times that.

It all depends on the "look" you desire and the time and/or money you have to do the project.

EDIT: The EBL will control the dual TBI units, but is way overpriced when compared to the MS-I that will do the same thing. MS-I is much easier to tune also.

 

no, im not comparing my diesel to the car, its just that at this point in time i can drive the truck around and have more fun in it and burn 1/16th the fuel while horsing around, im not even going to get into highway milage.

Their really isnt much comparison between the 2, my truck would eat my car alive any day and its only got a few minor tweaks!

Time isnt of too much concern, like i said, im lucky if i drive the car a couple times a year and i wouldnt mind tinkering on it over the winter months.

As for the 'look', i would much rather have a blower under there while i know turbo's are superior. I also know that rigging a pair of 'decent' turbos in there is going to cost more than the blower and TBI setup! (not that money is an issue, but i already have a rig on hairdriers, so i want a blower!)


Just another thing to throw out there, how much CFM would a guy need for a 250ci/r blower? Holley sells 670cfm 2bbls,650/900cfm 4bbls. If it would be any easier/better could a guy just use a single 900cfm 4bbl?

As for the cost of it. Well, the new holley TBI units are priced pretty close to a 'blower' carb. The entire fuel system will need upgrading regardless of whether i go with carb/tbi/mpfi as i am just running stock lines and mechanical pump right now.

im really not looking to get a million miles to the gallon out of this, just something better than what ive got which is gallons to the mile, its rediculus.

 

Im doing a blower-set up. 6psi, new heads, new cam, new intake. And desktop dyno said around 420hp and 400tq. So basically unless you found a good used supercharger [i wouldent spend more then 1500] then its not worth it.

Whoa, just saw you werent using a 305 like me. So feel free to go for it.
But, not many guys seem to use chargers on the TBI, and if you want to run higher boost, things can get tricky from what I understand.

How much psi you thinking?

 

The 250 charger is supposed to be good for 9-13psi (IIRC)

I can actually pick up a little 142 from a buddy for cheap, its new, but i would rather have something that can move a little more air and run dual carb/TBI

Im beginning to wonder why i would put all this money into the car when i can put the same or less $ into my truck and lay down an easy 1200hp/2000lb/ft+...

 

Then put the money in your truck, lol.

But you need a mass air flow? Im not sure but I read somewhere that if you want to run boost it will run a lot better with a new sensor?

Why dont you just get the wynjammer?
http://www.wynjammer.com/

Its not that expensive [I think 2000$ for the whole kit with everything], and will let you keep your stock hood and everything.

And with the money you save you can still get some goodies for your truck.

 

I would rather go SD if i use EFI, maybe its not the case but i have read alot of horror stories about high hp booosted apps using a MAF system...

I would rather do the roots type blower for reasons stated above, plus i dont like the idea of blow-through carbs.

 

Yeh I dont think it was MAF. But i read somewhere that TBI works better with some extra sensor to see the boost.

If you go with the Weiand, you planning on using a cowl hood or what?

 

probably not, even though the 250 is a low profile unit, i highly doubt it would be close to fitting under any cowl. i would just blast a hole in the hood.

I would much rather have a scoop popping out of the hood than a 6" cowl blocking all view of the passenger side of the car!


What you are thinking of is a 2bar map sensor. Stock ones wont see much if any boost.

 

Yeh the map sensor then. You going to add one of those?

Just dont drive that thing in the rain, lol.
Im probably going with a 4in cowl with the Whipple supercharger im using. Im waiting til everythings on to measure and order it.

Id suggest talking to comp, or using the cam quest or something. Im not sure if the cam you have would be ideal for the boost? Or have you looked into all that already.

 

Of course i would use a suitable map sensor, it wouldnt work if i didnt use one... lol

cam will be changed of course to a boost friendly setup

None of that is really an issue. i just havent had the chance to play with EFI too much and wanted to know if and how a guy could run a set of dual TBIs on a blower to get some decent fuel economy.

Or maybe a blower with MPFI?

 

Well, after alot more researching, it appears that this may be alot more of a PITA than what its going to be worth...

Im starting to think about doing MPFI with a turbo or centri-charger...

I have been out of the game for a while now, but i see edelbrock sells a new pro-flo2 system that is sequential and priced well. i may go that route...

Or, for the extra couple hundred a guy can get the new pro-floXT...

 

Go for the Pro-Flo. I saw it on TV and it looks awesome.

I dont think anyone is running it on here, so be sure to post lots of pictures and dyno #s.

 

You might want to re-read my first post saying I would go with a TPI unit and T4 turbo.

 

I wont be finding a used TPI around here anywhere, been there done that one before. A guy can pick them up on escam and whatnot, but by the time a guy pays for the shipping and everything your better off buying something new!

I might try the HX35 off of my truck just for kicks, then the ht3b... But at least if i go this route i can still drive it around with decent fuel economy while i tinker around with a turbo or something.


As for getting dyno numbers, thats not going to happen, other than the azz dyno. the closest dyno to where i live is over 12hr drive away, i dont even want to know what it would cost to drive the car that far!

 

You could try a Vortech...if you can find one...I have one..can give you some pics if needed.

 

"I would rather do the roots type blower for reasons stated above, plus i dont like the idea of blow-through carbs."

 

You still have your caprice?

 

So far...