It's going to be a blow through carb application. I've been doing a lot of searching on this board as well as turbomustangs.com. I'm set on a 75mm S400 w/ 1.10 A/R with flange kit and a 44mm JGS wastegate. I am going to run E-85 for fuel for octane and cooling. I will not run an intercooler. I'm more or less trying to get ideas on mounting everything. I will be saving up over the next year for everything as well.

I've also heard of guys doing twin in tank Walbro 255 fuel pumps in the stock pick up. I want to do this as well, as I already have one of the pumps in my house. If anyone could help me out with this project I would appreciate it. I will be running this on my motor in my sig. I trust the stock crank will be ok for now.

My buddy is running 18 pounds through a stock 305 (except the intake) on the virtually the same set up without any problems... Any pics would be great!

 

On your existing engine?!?
Zach, hate to burst your bubble, but your engine is setup up very well for NA, but.... 'pisspoorly' for boost. It's just the wrong setup altogether.
You'd really need to rebuild that engine with totally different parts.

Also, why no intercooler? They aren't really that expensive, and without an intercooler you can barely run a noticeable amount of boost... even with E85.

 

The only way to go with boost is efi, or so Lingenfelter said. Good luck with your current setup and no intercooler, you won't be happy with the results.

 

Lingenfelter was wrong then. Carburetion and Electronic Fuel Injection are exactly the same thing, they're meant to achieve the same exact goal. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that the ultimate MAF sensor is in fact the carburetor. Carbureted engines need to be tuned in the very same manner as fuel injected engines. However, much like EFI, only those who know how to tune a carburetor will find the greatest results possible....

 

carb and turbocharging should not be in the same sentence. EFI is only way to go with turbocharging. Running no intercooler will require u to use either
C16 or alcohol if u want to run big boost.

so with a carb u could tune each load/rpm point individually????
a carb could atomize fuel just as good as a fuel injector spraying pressurized fuel thru a jet??????

 

That engine combo is the opposite of an FI engine. That sucks...on the brighter side you could probably handle a 200-250 shot with those strong internals. If you got the $$$ rebuild.

 

Yeah right, why not tell that to these guys lmao, Click Here......

... umm, "yes", Click Here, lmao!

There are other ways to atomize fuel, my dear David....

 

Isnt stock CR of a 305 something like 9.5? With 18 psi thats an est. 21:1 CR. Somehow I dont think he is running that on a stock 305 with a cast piston and no intercooler. If you wanted to run a turbo at 8 psi you would have to bring your CR pretty far down, 8:1 and 8 psi is something like 12.3:1 CR. So a rebuild with some dish pistons would definitely be in order and 12.3 is still pretty high for a carb setup unless the cam you are going to use bleeds off alot of the pressure, you will just get alot of detonation.

 

u must be really clueless.... a carb has like 3 fuel metering circuits.....fuel injection has a 100`s if not 1000`s load/rpm points that u can tune...

your list does not impress me ...........in fact i bet some of them would go efi in heartbeat.

go to some big racing events and check out how many blowthrough guys win compared to efi guys.

i only use EFI on my turbo cars. maybe its too technical or expensive for u i dont know but im sorry if it is........

 

Go back and read the part where he says he is using E85. I would just pick a different cam myself.

Have fun tuning though.

 

I read the part where he said E85 just fine. E-85 is reasonably good up to 12.5 CR which at 8:1 CR before boost he would be good at 12.35:1 but I doubt his N/A motor is 8:1 CR. Where there was no 1/4 time in his sig I assumed it was a mostly street car. I wouldn't want to be pushing it that much with a carb on the street especially on a hot day, after I just rebuilt the short block again for that setup.

If its a strip car then sure why not, much easier to control the temp than when in stop and go traffic.

 

Davey, your argument is so transparent it isn't even funny....

Then again, maybe it is....

Has "like" lol? Your making something simple sound way too complicated....

Fuel is metered depending on the amount of air that is entering the engine. With different flow rates, you'll initially have the primary jets metered correctly, followed by a secondary set for the transition. An atmospheric vented mechanical fuel pump, and/or an electric pump with a corresponding one to one fuel regulator allows for fuel pressure to increase with every pound of boost. Idle jets operate from off idle to 2500-3000rpms or so. Main jets from 2500-4500rpms, w/the Air jets affecting the engine from 3500/4000 on up. Emulsion tubes change where it's rich, lean, etc....

.... lmao and? So? What are you still burning chips LOL? Most fuel injected tuners, especially when running upwards of 20+psi of boost, will normally "flash" the ECM to a set specific and constant AFR, as the immediacy of such amount of boost has a tendency to instill false detonation. With a blow-thru carburetor, you monitor and tune for a specific AFR throughout the load/RPM point(s), and not have to worry about the latter.

Could care less what impresses you. You were proven wrong, just accept it. Incidently, half of those guys came from EFI, so go buy yourself a clue....

LOL, last TEN "big" EFI events that I went to didn't allow for carbureted engines to compete in the fuel injected class. As for blow-thru vs EFI engines, in respect to turbo-charging, I've seen it three times a week, for the last six months, going on four years. What your saying is absolute nonsense....

Because you obviously don't know "how" to, otherwise....

 

I'm running 16psi on a stock 305 (9.3:1cr) with 91 octane pump gas, so unless he's running 10.5:1 I'm not sure there is an issue, well besides that cam.

 

oh geez, here come the arguers....
No reason you can't use a carb on blowthru. Lots of fast guys do it. Carbs self modify, it's nice that way, you can run a far more aggressive setup then an FI setup can "think through".

My personal statements (which aren't trying to be angry or condescending at all...), are just that that engine is setup as a GREAT carbed NA motor, but a poor turbo motor.

Cam timing (LONG duration, 108LSA) is very bad for boost. I think he had about 11:1 CR or so, right Zach? So that'd have to be modified...

Once you change the heads and cam, then sure... But you've got about a 430HP build there, why tear it all back down to start from scratch to do a turbo setup? Or were you hoping to do it as is? That'd be a BEAR to do! It'll be a tuning nightmare with that cam and whatnot. (and yes, I did read the E-85. It's a good fuel, but not a miracle worker...)

 

That's pretty impressive, thats with stock pistons and a different cam?

I would still lean towards an NA motor. Especially since its already built. Zach what was your goal with that car? Are you looking for a certain HP number or 1/4 time?

 

wrong.


I am running 10# on E85 with my setup. I can run 16# on E85 also.

 

The engine is all stock, pistons, heads, cam, everything. I've run it up to 18 but I dont think its going to hold up doing that for very long.

He hasnt come back to tell us what his compression ratio is, but I'm guessing its at least 10:1. Even so, running 8:1 before considering boost sounds like normal pump gas thought to me. If anything, he can just run less boost... not like he already knows he's going to get 18psi and thats what he will run.

 

efi and turbo is the only way to go? no I don't think so my buddies got a twin turbo'd sbc blazer with a blow through carb and its doin 6.8s

 

Sounds like a stock 1990-ish TPI 305ci. Sure you can run 16-18PSI...........what matters is where the spark timing is set at. How much spark advance are you running at 16 PSI with 91 octane?

 

Just to chime in, I run 7-8psi on an aluminum headed 355 with 10:1 comp. I do not run an intercooler but I do run meth injection. I run Accel DFI and it is quite easy to tune. I also run 91-92 pump gas. I just wanted to give you another example of what CAN be done. I have been running this setup all summer with no issues what so ever. It is possible, but a lot of it depends on your tune. A lot of people said that at such a low boost it wouldn't be worth it, but I will tell you it is. This car is a blast to drive. just my

 

Yup, its a 91 motor.
Based on my last log file it should be at 21 at WOT.

As is coming out in this post, there's more than one way to make things work. Setting things in stone is really difficult when there are too many variables.

 

u must be living under a rock. You are totally clueless on fuel injection which totally explains your preference for blowthrough carbs. I run Accel DFI gen 7 and Motec . burning chips are u serious?

 

Sorry for not being able to get back on here. Since I broke my leg I've been out of comission for a while. No computer access at my house so I use it at my parents place or at work.

Max, sounds like my buddies project with a blow through carb, no intercooler stock LO3. 18 lbs of boost and 120 mph in the quarter now on E85. My CR is 10.5:1 as is. I plan on switching the cam when I do the turbo system.

I still have yet to run it at the track this year as is. My goal was about a high 11 sec slip in the 118 mph range. I don't know if I would get there or not. Plus, I'll grow out of this combo soon enough. I could always go solid roller afterwards. Then where? I caught the turbo bug riding in my buddies car and WOW. It's nuts.

Sonix,

The CR is 10.5:1 now as is. I do plan on swapping the cam once I start the project. This won't be for the next year or so. I will run it N/A all next year saving coin for the turbo build. My buddies running boost have had great luck with E85 in this area. I like the motor now as is, but after riding in my buddies car, it's an entirley different animal all together, considering his stock 305 would beat me in the quarter...

How do you like your combo?

To anyone else. What is your luck with the S400? I would be running it with my T56. Also, I browsed some forums and didnt' really come up with any pics of blow through carb, single turbo applications for a thirdgen...

 

Also, I doubt Lingenfelter was wrong because he was the authority on chevy motors. He did carb and fuel injection, small and big blocks, all motor, supercharging, and turbocharging. When it comes to boost, unless you are building a trailer b!tc#, efi is more driveable, tuneable, and reliable. If fuel injection sucks so much, ask TurboedTPI what's under his hood! (hint: screen name is related to what's under the hood) And that is very reliable and street friendly, but no "carb is better". You sound like the 305 guys that say that a 305 is as good as a 350. Yes it's close but there are more advantages going one way than the other. Carb is cheaper and more simple, but not as good as efi. Every hear the saying that you get what you pay for?

 

I never said anything about carb > EFI. I know it's doable though. My car is already carbed.

 

OUCH! You posted while I was typing. I agreed with daverr. I'm tired of this carb VS. fuel injection. It's a dumb arguement. Uh, if carbs were so great, why don't they put them on the new performance cars? Why don't they do this? Because carbs flat out suck!

 

I really don't want this thread to go in that direction. It will be carbed due to lack of money and knowing I can do it...

 

I know exactly what you mean, after driving my friends nissan 240 with a inline 6 skyline motor turbo'd it gave me the turbo fever too. Im still thinking about it for next year to put me in the mid 10's.

Hope your leg gets better soon.

 

because carbs are less efficiant than F.I.

 

You can't even decipher what is being written. You were already proven wrong. Your now desperate to save your argument, as well as to save face, but the fact of the matter is, your wrong, so get over yourself....

I'll reitertate, you cannot decipher what is being written, and you only hear what you want to here. Either that or your simply molding your argument into something that has absolutely no relevance, while somehow trying to masquerade it as some type of coherent point.....

To prove my point even further, you now a$$-u-me that my preferance is blow-thru carbs, then somehow try to inject this as the premise of your argument. Who said I preferred them lmao? It was YOU who said that it wasn't possible, and that turbo's and carbs didn't belong in the same sentence together. Did you already forget what you wrote lol....;

"Carb and turbocharging should not be in the same sentence. EFI is only way to go"....

Umm, err, uhhh, did you suddenly not write that or something.....?

Excuse me while I bust out a few cartwheels....

Here's an old clip of what my cousins built for one of their customers, Click Here, and what now resides under the hood, Click Here....

Enough of this, Davey, YOU said that carbs shouldn't be turbocharged, and I called you on that, and you were proven wrong. I never said that I myself preferred them over fuel injection, I only referred to the carburetor as the ulitmate MAF sensor, because it IS just that....

That says it all, and how long have you been running a turbo? Oh that's right, you haven't even started yet....

ROTFFLMMFAO, authority on Chevy motors? PLEASE.....!!!!!!

Gale Banks was running turbocharged Chevy motors when Lingenfelter was still testing cars for Calloway, buy yourself a clue! Lingenfelter never built a car faster than Gale Banks did, and yes, Banks' was a turbocharged Trans Am running a CARBURETOR, Click Here.....

 

Exactly, automotive manufacturers no longer use carburetors because they aren't as efficient, and they have EPA standards to adhere to. Fuel Injection allows for more overall emissions control. However, carburetors still dominate at the track, and are just, if not more consistent at bracket racing. The aftermarket still sells, and improves on them year after year for a reason. Last time I spoke with my buddy over at Summit Racing, carburetors are still selling more than Fuel Injection setups due to their pricetag, and ease of tuning ability.....

 

Haha, thanks for the wishes. Four more weeks, hopefully I can drive my car more before the snow flies.

Guys, I really don't want this thread to take the path it's going on carb vs EFI. I will be going carburated, I was looking for mounting tips and tips in general to get the proj. started. I also am trying to find info on using two Walbro 255 pumps in the stock pick up. It has been done, but I can't find the thread...

 

Don't worry dude, we're only arguing, and we're all grown up. Well, not too sure about all4u lol (just kidding), but it's cool. I just don't appreciate when people put words in my mouth. Good luck with your carburetor build man, I'm sure your going to get very very far with it, so make sure you don't listen to the nay-sayers. Here's some links to help along the way....

http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html

http://www.toohighpsi.com/BudgetTT/tthowto.htm

Good luck....

-Rob

 

Here's my 1st turbo build of my 305 single turbo blow thru setup.



I've since changed everything with my 2nd build, including the car. The blowthru carb wasn't that bad. I followed the link that street lethal attached to modify it for boost.

I had troubles tuning at part throttle and it would flood after boost, but I think that might have been due to the mech. fuel pump. An electric pump and boost referenced regulator would've been the better choice. Also, I never trusted that the msd btm was reducing timing under boost, since it was hard to test.

If you do have some extra money left over, I would definitely recommend an intercooler. It will allow you to safely run more boost and doesn't require much work to fab it in. My advice is to make sure you do everything the way you want the first time around, even if it takes more time and money.

 

Uh, as far as not having a turbo, that is wrong. I am working on turboing my firebird but my evo will wreck you. So as far as you talking crap about if a person is grown up or not and I "haven't even started" turbocharging, it would be a good idea for you to shut up. I'm not bashing you but until you know what you are talking about, keep your trap shut. As a senior member on the board, I would expect a little more professionalism on the board. You have been here long enough to know rules and the such on the board. As far as putting down other board members for their views, that isn't right. If you every wanted to race a "little four banger" let me know. I'm not saying I'll necessarily win, (I probably will), but I will show you that I do know a few things about turbocharging. Especially I know a thing or two about the GT850R turbos!

 

All4u, I want a rematch! Your little evo will never catch the supra and she is back and better than ever. Quit talking smack cause if anyone's going to get "wrecked" it's you buddy. When you wanna run 'em cause I think that we should post a video of the race for all the members to see that you don't know anything. Last time you won only cause I missed a gear, big deal.
----------
Oh, and I do remember Lingenfelter's trans am did 298 mph so I wonder what gale banks ran.

 

Wow you guys type fast....

Ok Zach, that CR is quite high to start a turbo setup. Especially with iron heads and no FI. There'll be all kinds of guys here that'll pop up and say they've done it with xyz combo, but there's lot of other factors that come into play (AL heads and injection and intercooler come to mind...). Be very careful, because yes it's possible, but you're SO CLOSE to the ragged edge that it makes it a tuning nightmare, hence why I was hoping you wouldn't use your existing engine... There'll always be a goofball coming on here saying that because he say so-and-so do it in xyz magazine that it's possible and a good idea for you to do it.... Not to mention the 6 months of expert turbocharging carb tuners working on it to barely get it running for the photo shoot. Be Wary!!

Anyway, if you use a smaller cam it will build up more cylinder pressure, so make sure you know that. A wider LSA is the obvious thing you need to watch for, as far as being "better" for a turbo build.

Any chance you can swap your 64cc heads for 76cc heads? There might be *someone* out there with similar heads, but bigger chambers that might want to trade? might be worth at least looking at.

Aside from that, what turbo size and quantity are you looking at?

What's your buddy drive, so we have some frame of reference?

 

all4u has an evo that ran high ten's on a bad tune. I know that he consulted with ams but wasn't satisfied. For those in the IL area, he drives the evo that says spooling 20 lbs in the back window which is bull cause he is doing a heck more than that to beat my supra. He knows about turbos but I think that as far as the carb vs. injection he is wrong. Carbs are cheaper and there for better. Yes injection gives more performance but most of us are on a budget and can't afford a $10k turbo setup. Go with whatever is cheap.

 

This, coming from "Lingenfelter is lord of the Chevy's" lol. Yeah right, keep talking because that's all you really seem to be with every post I come across of yours, talk....

Grow up. You totally disregard what you said in previous posts, and now you focus on something that is totally irrelevant. If you have nothing good to say about this guys (not "your") turbo small block thread, then don't say anything at all. Try to inspire the guy, not deter him for crying out loud because no matter what you say, he's building a blow-thru setup....

That's the second time you said that, grow a set first my friend....

Excuse me, professionalism? Your doing nothing but shooting this guys thread down, nor are you contributing in any way whatsoever, so don't talk to me about professionalism. Like I said, if you have nothing GOOD to say, then don't say anything. If you have a problem with blow-thru carbs, fine, but that's your problem, nobody else's, especially his....

.... and?

This thread ISN'T about Blow-Thru VS Fuel Injection, YOUR (YOUR) the one shooting Blow-Thru carbs down, NOT ME. What the hell are you talking about, this is HIS thread, remember....?

How did this get into a 4 banger debate? Oh my goodness, how old are you? Your turning one argument into THREE, between Blow-Thru VS FI, Professionalism, and now suddenly it's Domestic vs Import. Like I said already, if you have NOTHING inspirational to say, as well as anything that is relevant to this thread, then why are you here....?

BTW, calebzman, that is SWEET.....!!!!!!

 

carb>efi

 

Is this thread dead yet?

If not, I'd first like to echo Street Lethal and compliment Calebzman on that beautiful blow through setup. I couldn't have done better myself.

Seriously, I hope that one day I'll be able to put something together that looks half that good and hopefully works better than it looks.

I'm doing research on carbureted turbo systems. If I had an MPFI 2.8L V6 in my car instead of a carbureted engine, I would be doing different research. I do not need anyone to tell me that EFI/turbo is the "only" way to go. In my 52 years I have learned there are very few things that can only be done one way.

My objective is to add some power to the 2.8 on an "on demand" basis. The car will not be used for racing.

All the turbo kits I ever saw back in the late 70's and early 80's had the carburetor mounted upstream of the compressor. What are the advantages of a blow through system besides being able to use an intercooler more efficiently?

The system I envision would look similar to the one in Calebzman's pic. The carb would be on an adapter forward of the compressor. Ducting from the compressor outlet would run directly to the intake manifold. This was the basic setup of all those turbo kits from the pre EFI era.

I suppose it would be possible to put a low profile intercooler between the compressor and manifold and somehow get some cool ram air to flow through it.

My only previous personal experience with turbocharging was in a Mr. RPM Turbo 800L that I flew for about 4 years. I also handled maintenance of that plane so I know one or two things about the systems. The plane had two 720 cid flat-8's with twin turbos. It was nice.

Oh, my cousin has a Mitsu Evo 6 or 7 that he claims will do 200 mph. But he owns a bank so he doesn't count.

CHEAP GOOD FAST: Pick two!

 

do urself a favor and this comming from a huge v6 turbo guy, do not put a turbo on that carbed 2.8 it will not last long. and the 2.8 carb motor has heads worse then the mpfi v6 heads

the reason i tell u not to do it asside from the heads is the crankshaft in ur v6 is a small journal crank and it will not last.

if u seriously want to do a turbo on it even carberated get urself at minumum a mpfi 2.8 or 3.1 or even a longblock and put ur carbed manifold on it

it will make much better power and is alot stronger


also if u want a decent turbo to do a draw threw setup on that motor with look into an old pontiac/buick 301 turbo those had carb adapters that bolted directly to the turbo inlet and should support about 300 hp tops,and since the turbo wa smeant for a draw threw application it will already have the correct seal on the compressor housing

a hot air turbo off a gn is also the same

sorry for the hijack guys

 

Thanks for the advise. I shall put off my turbo planning until I have a suitable base engine. I'm a tinkerer at heart and the thought of building my own turbo system is almost irresistible.

My main problem is I'm on the wrong side of the Pacific Ocean and the cost of shipping big stuff like engines over here is prohibitive. Then again if I could locate a GN turbo motor for a reasonable price...

 

It seems that the best way to get a GN turbomotor is to buy a whole car!

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward dropping a 327 (I have two) into the 84. But I will wait until I have completed the rest of the car before making a final decision.

I saw the photo of that custom twin turbo for sale on another board.

WOW!!!

Sweet!!!