Here is a before and after from when I first started....;



Just going to set valve lash, then I'll install the chrome valve covers....;

 

????

What???

I've never heard anything but don't put anything on MLS style gaskets, what's up with the copper spray?

 

Yea, from their website:

from:
http://www.cometic.com/faq.aspx

 

I've never sprayed them in between layers, just on the top and bottom. I have reused the same set like 3 times though with a new coat of spray each time. Those gaskets look like they were kind of a waste of time to me. Looks like they used the same design they have for up to a 4.2" bore and just left some meat inside the sealing surface so the final bore of the gasket came out smaller.

 

I love that Permatex Copper Spray Gasket!!!
2 different rebuilds... both using Felpro 1094 steel shim Head Gaskets .015" compressed thickness.
One build Cast Steel Head, the other Aluminum
Both still running HARD!!!!

 

is it running 9s yet?

 

I know, when I first ordered the Cometics over the phone, they said that it was optional. But what really solidified it was when I spoke with a few Grand National guys that I know, with all of them insisting that the copper spray be used with the Cometics. What I forgot to mention in that post is that after the final torque application is applied, once you get some heat into the engine, remove the valve covers and torque down the heads again, don't loosen, just re-apply the final foot pound torque value....

 

I sprayed them very very lightly in between. I was looking at a set of 3.8 Turbo Cometics, and I now see why they were insisting on spraying them with copper spray, as they're gaskets are made very differently in terms of sealing around the steam holes. Why Cometic does that with the Buick gaskets I have no idea. Hopefully they do well for me though....

I'm glad both of you guys had success with the copper spray, because I have to be honest, as I was applying the spray onto the head gasket something was screaming "noooo, don't do it" inside of me lol....

 

making enough power to go 9's is the easy part.

i would have left that holley pro jection intake alone and sold it to someone needing it for their truck. then used that money for a single plane.

600-650ish rwhp should be enough to get you into the 9's once you spend the fortune on chassis parts, trans, converter, wheels/tires, and rollbar stuff.
it would probably be easier to do if you can put a 12 bolt or 9" in there and set it up to leave hard. then you could get it done with 500-550ish rwhp.

 

Moroso isn't paying me to say this lol, but they make one heck of a reusable valve cover gasket. Preload has been set, and the valve covers are on. Next is the Tuned Port Injection setup, and I'm just making some last minute modifications to it. Should be installed very soon....

 

Agreed, making the power is in fact the easy part, the engine holding together is a completely different story though lol The Holley Pro-Jection manifold, although setup for a carb, can still be used for TBI with an adapter plate. Other than maybe the porting that I did to it, it doesn't really hold much value though. As the project moves along I'm honestly starting to contemplate a Turbo 400 w/trans brake, as well as a much stronger rear now, but I'm still going to give the stock drivetrain a chance to prove itself. Suspension will be enhanced, but as far as a cage, here at Atco Raceway they don't bother those in the tens not employing a 6-point rollbar, so if I happen to hit nines, I'll just get warned. Once the engine is running, will spend a few days dialing in the tune, then taking it to the dyno where I'll video the results. From there, it'll be off to the track for some runs (on video), first of course to see if I get knock, the second will be easing out of the hole while focusing on trap, then the third will be a bonzai blast....

 

The rear end will be a challenge later on I think. Pull the axles and draw a straight line down them. That way you can yank every so often and figure out that it's time to change em.

 

can't wait to see this thing come out. and a th400 or th350 with a brake and a good rear end will make it much easier to reach your goal

 

i tried that once it dosent work the stock axles are so brittle so to say they kinda just snap. at most u might catch some deformation of the exles splines but thats about it

 

Still working on the lower intake for the Tuned Port Injection, but I already started on the upper plenum. Just need to open up the orifice behind the throttle body on the plenum, but other than that its pretty much done. I'm going to start working on the runners in the morning, and I should have both they and the upper plenum finished up later on in the day....

 

Looks about like mine did. Can't wait to see this thing where it's running. Did you remember to get a TV cable for the transmission?

ED:I have the Felpro gaskets that are neoprene they are worth their weight in gold.

 

I had to stop working on the plenum and runners, and get back to just the intake manifold for the time being because I was focusing on too many things at one time lol. The manifold is just about done, just going to clean it up in a few more spots and then its going on. Flow will not be a problem whatsoever, and neither will turbulence. I cleaned it with the garden hose before taking the pics, so it's a little wet....

 

Yes, I picked one up from the junkyard. The only thing I didn't get yet is the throttle cable, as that was already taken from the car that I got the detent cable from. I'm probably just going to order one off of ebay....

 

Runners are almost finished, here is a quick before and after....;

 

ugh nevermind. lol

 

Don't hold back Dig, whatever criticism you may have is encouraged....

 

lol no it was my own fault. i was going to bitch some more about the dual plane intake you were working on, and after i posted i realized i hadnt even gotten to the last page where you were working on a tpi intake.

so all is well.

 

Do you think maybe its possible that you will make just as much power as that firebird with the boosted stock tpi 350, since the intake is much better matched to a 305?

 

Nice work with the grinder it looks smooth and controlled.

I have to admit I was surprised to see rotators and oil shields on the valve springs. Are you still using the XE268 cam or no?

 

It's really going to be interesting to see, as although he had more cubes, the size of his intake valves really held it's potential back. With larger valves and a fully siamesed TPI setup, the velocity of the incoming air with the 305 is going to be uncanny, so the transition from vacuum to boost is not only going to be extremely fast, but its going to hit extremely hard. The fueling and stall speed will be the deciding factor though for sure....

Not the XE268H-10, the XE268H-14. Lift is kept to a minimal, and I didn't want to invest in the beehive springs, especially with the pressed in studs. The springs, hopefully, should do okay. At this point I'm having nightmares more about the rods though lol.

 

Lots of updates! Im digging the TPI!

 

OK that's the 12-268-4 part number? Same as the XE268H-10 just 114 lobe center angle and 110 intake centerline?

I'm building a 305 with ported 416's right now with 981 springs and using the XE268H-10. I'm going to use the press in studs too so we'll see who pulls them first. The tech at comp said he had never heard of anyone pulling studs with these springs so we'll see I guess, hopefully it wasn't his first day on the job.

If it's any reassurance I have pulled the studs from 416 castings with hand tools to put in screw in studs and they were unbelievably hard to get out. The last stud we pulled cracked the boss. I've pulled 083 casting studs too and they were very easy to get out, they came out with a 3/8 drive ratchet with-out much effort.

 

The runners are finished. I hit them with Black, but the plenum and lower intake manifold will stay with an aluminum finish. I also epoxied the cold start injector bung shut, and both runners now look like this. Gonna finish up the upper plenum right now....;

 

::subscribed::

 

very interesting build/goal. i love little adventures like this!!!!!
oh and, as for the copper gasket spray on mls gaskets, i use it all the time. in fact, the one time i didnt use it on a head job, it leaked coolant.

 

The Tuned Port Injection setup was finished awhile ago, but I ran into a small problem with clearance. The lower intake did not cover the intake ports on the cylinder heads when it was seated (it's a centerbolt style manifold that I elongated to be used on the L69 heads, but I'll be using the setup for another build) so that pretty much took care of that. I was honestly glad though, because I decided to go in a completely different direction with this build to meet the goal. Updates will be coming....

 

Interesting. Going to have to check mine now as well as the dimensions of my TBI and 416 heads. That sounds really abnormal!

 

Interesting...cant wait to see the updates.

 

I see a modified vic jr in your future. Ditching that TPI means you can have a chance at 9s again. Looking good so far.

 

Why would the TPI keep you out of the 9s?

 

i was gonna say with those L69 cylinder heads why are you reusing them but i see you found out they had small valves, i think mine can be reused if you did this to yours, im doing a full rebuild of my 305 to go into a 68 Camaro

 

It may not but with the ability to make more top end power it should help things out significantly. Would love to see how this thing does with boost and being a smaller CID which would in theory let the intake work better.

 

Late to the party, but, SUBSCRIBE!!!!

 

I got a pro charged 305 (stock) and it is still running good. Can t wait to see what a turbo does!

 

Awesome! Subscribed

 

Subscribed!

 

At the top of the page, there is a button called "thread tools". If you click on it, you can subscribe without getting people falsely excited about a "real" post.

 

Whats the deal Street ? You wrenching this weekend ?

 

I got you excited!

 

I'm blue ballin here.

 

that's even weirder... do the bolts even turn when retorqued like that? in theory, unless something seriously stretched or compressed down, the break away torque on the bolts should be greater than what they're torqued to, so even if the tension dropped significantly from where it was set they shouldn't move without loosening them first.

Have you found that this actually works? Traditional for retorquing is to back them off about a quarter turn before retorquing. Also, this has always bothered me, if you're going to do any retorquing on head bolts, what kind of sealant do you use?

as far as the copper spray... yea, it works, just makes me nervous putting it on something that specifically says not to. I'm guessing that some of this might be that almost no block or head deck surfaces have the recommended RMS finish for the MLS gaskets.

 

Your not the only one... any progress on this thing?????

 

I used Cometics on my turbo buick (109 block, iron heads). Cometics require a very smooth machined finish on the block and heads for that viton coating to work. Even following these directions, I can't tell you how many people have problems getting them to seal in the turbo buick world. What I did find was that everyone that used copper spray had zero sealing problems.

I neither had the heads or block machined to the recommended surface finish. So when I put my cometics on, I cut the rivets and sprayed copper coat on every shim. The car ran an 11.2@118, 7.0@95 with a 1.54 sixty with 55% torque converter slippage crossing the line. Then the trans broke. I have no leaks. Thats a girdled 109 with stock crank and rods.


As far as the porting pictures go, pretty ports don't do squat for air flow. Part of my buick project involved porting the heads. Since I like to see numbers I built a flowbench to measure changes. I learned a few interesting things. The biggest gain in flow is your valve throat. Open to 85-90% of your valve diameter. I made the SSR as large of a radius as I could when I did this. Next big improvement is opening up the area on the biased side of the valve guide. I removed a lot of material here. Another big flow gain.
After that, I couldn't get any more air flow. Messing with the port area pretty much has 0 effect on flow. Surface finish didn't matter either.
I topped out at about 190 cfm which is about what you'll get from ported iron turbo buick heads.
Considering the power the engine puts out its easy to see that boost is where it's at. A 305 head can easily flow way more than that. Considering that you have more cubes to work with and more airflow you have the potential to make way more power. The key is engine management and staying out of detonation. I would run a megasquirt with wideband fedback and alcohol injection or just 116. If the bottom end holds together, it will fly.

 

Pablo, I'm curious, what compression and boost were you running on that setup?

You know, I _want_ to run a different cam, but I found a 224/224/114 (custom roller with XE lobes, so a little less duration than both of you are running...) in my basement that I'm likely to use in my 305 build and when I called comp I had 2 techs laugh at me when I said I was thinking about using it with stock studs and no guideplates (just using the stock broached pushrod holes). I'm also messing with a set of 416's, and I'm honestly starting to wonder about that. I decided to listen to them and started pulling studs and found that I need to clamp the heads down to a heavy table and use a 25" breaker bar to pull them, I've never had this hard a time pulling them before (right now I have two buggered up ones that I don't know how I"m going to get out). At this point I'm pretty much committed on pulling the studs but I'm back to considering not drilling out the broached pushrod holes and skipping the guideplates.

As far as TPI not working... I'm sure that that cut up setup that you showed would flow more than the heads that you're using, so it won't restrict your rpm at all. I'm most likely going to ditch my TPI also and use a Vic Jr that I converted a while back, not because of performance reasons but because of all the different parts you have to deal with/seal every time you take it apart... TPI looks cool but it's a hassle to work with if you expect to be messing with the fuel system regularly...

 

Subscribed, this looks like fun to me.