When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I figured I would make a build thread since I just picked up the engine yesterday. Some of you may know the car, it won the May 2016 COTM. The old build thread can be found here for the turbo 3.1l build:
After having fun with the little V6 I decided it was time for an upgrade. I was torn between building a turbo sbc or going LSX. As you can see from the title, I have decided to go LSX. This build is going to be "budget" oriented as I am a college student working part time. The goal is going to be 450-500 wheel horsepower which shouldn't be to difficult. I have much to learn still but am looking forward to another project.
So onto the engine, I picked up an 02' 4.8l with 125k miles. Turns over freely, oil looks great, no major leaks or damage. I got the engine, harness, pcm, manifolds, etc for $300. In my area that is a really great deal.
As far as the build here is my initial plan:
- Stock 4.8l (no headwork, no cam, etc)
- Ebay Gt45 Turbo
- Flipped and modified truck headers
- Ebay 50 mm wastegate
- Ebay BOV
- Modified MPX SRT-4 Intercooler
- Walbro 400 pump
- 80lb Injectors
- Tuned on HP Tuners by myself
Basically I'm following my old build but on a larger basis. I had good luck with the ebay parts first time around, so i'm hoping the same happens here. I'm looking at the 4.8l as a starting base to get comfortable with everything and then work up from there. I'm sure I will want more power down the road but this build is just to get my feet wet.
I do have a few questions:
Will a 4L60E work for my power goals? I would eventually like to swap to a 4L80e down the road but it is not in the budget. I found an fbody 4l60e with a torque converter for $275 locally.
Will a small frame alternator clear my factory hood? I couldn't find a definitive answer.
I'm sure I will have more questions down the road as I plan to learn as I continue on. Thanks in advance!
- John
Here is a recent picture of the car. I just finished installing the LS1 front brake upgrade kit along with GC weight jacks. The car rides on E38 BMW M-Parallel wheels.
Following, I'm stocking up parts right now. Got a 5.3 on the stand. I think I'm gonna use On3 for my turbo. I'm leaning towards a t56 trans. Good luck, I love the LS threads.
I can't wait to see how this runs. I'm trying to decide between 4.8/5.3/6.0 for my 49 and 4.8+4L60 seems to be the most likely choice because of the cost.
Following, I'm stocking up parts right now. Got a 5.3 on the stand. I think I'm gonna use On3 for my turbo. I'm leaning towards a t56 trans. Good luck, I love the LS threads.
I will be stocking up on parts soon. Right now I'm mainly looking for a transmission and a fbody oil pan / pick up tube etc. I need to get the engine in the car before I start to fabricate the hot side. I have heard good things about the On3 turbos! The t56 will be a lot of fun also. Thanks!
Originally Posted by ZZ3Astro
I can't wait to see how this runs. I'm trying to decide between 4.8/5.3/6.0 for my 49 and 4.8+4L60 seems to be the most likely choice because of the cost.
I can't wait either! I'm sure it will be a lot of fun. I figure that anything about 400 wheel would be topping out my V6 build, but it is on the low end of a turbo LS build. Your car was really my driving force for staying gen 1, but I think I made the right choice for my car. After tuning some more with OBD1 last night I had a head ache... lol
Yeah the 4.8l seems to be overlooked quite a lot. They are cheaper, but less common. 5.3's are around $600 here while 6.0's are $1200. I figured I can't go wrong at $300 for the complete 4.8l.
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
60e can handle it once built right. In stock form it will eventually wear out the 3-4 clutches.
I figured the 3-4 shift would be the weak point. Is there anything I could install while the transmission is out of the car? I have heard good things about the TransGo HD2 kit, but not sure if it would help hold the power at all. I know the 4l60e would just be a band aid, but anything else isn't in the cards right now. The car mainly sees street crusing, it has never even been to the track. If I treat the 4l60e right I'm hoping it would be able to last a little while.
Certainly can last some time. Just try not to load it to hard with say drag slick lauches with high stall. And to much load in 3rd gear. Using hp tuners you can play with the torque management on shifts. Pull a bunch of timing on shifts to eliminate stress. Dont shift it to fast either.
Certainly can last some time. Just try not to load it to hard with say drag slick lauches with high stall. And to much load in 3rd gear. Using hp tuners you can play with the torque management on shifts. Pull a bunch of timing on shifts to eliminate stress. Dont shift it to fast either.
Ahh that makes sense then. I don't foresee slicks, launches, and a very high stall in the immidiate future. It sounds like with my goals the 4l60e should last a little while.
For the price of that kit I would rather save and put in a 4l80e or find a t56. I'm sure it is great for guys that NEED an upgrade but I'm not sure that I need that right now. I guess we will see how long it lasts... lol
Thanks Rob! Progress will be slow, but will still be progress.
Im thinking the eBay GT45 with the 1.05 AR will be a good fit for the 4.8l. It seems to be a common turbo used for boosted lsx engines.
Everything else should come together. From building the turbo V6 I really don't have many questions when it comes to fabbing up the turbo kit, etc etc.
with the setback plates, fbody pan, and 4l60e I should be able to prettymuch drop the engine in. I think I'm going to shave the truck intake in order to save some money unless I can find a cheap LS1 intake locally with the fuel rail. I need to do some more research.
Yeah I have heard good things about the on3 7875. I'm pretty budgeted here though on this build. I think I'm going to stick with the Gt45 as it is a good turbo at an even better price. Can't beat $180 shippped! Haha
I did just find a Borg Warner s400 turbo, 75mm wheel, T-6, 1.32 AR. on craigslist locally. The guy has a 50 mm wastegate and a BOV also. I'm 99% sure that turbo is to large for my application, but I really don't know anything. If someone could chime in that is more knowledgable please let me know!
Does anyone know if a small frame alternator will fit under a stock thirdgen hood using the truck accessories? That is my big worry right now.
It would work but would take time to spool. Not bad if you have good sized cam and plan to rev to over 7000 rpm and wanna make over well 600 whp.
But the t4 sized turbos make more sense in the stockish motor builds looking for 400-600 whp
My buddy ran a mild cam 5.3 truck motor with 7875 on3 and made a good bit over 600 whp thru a th400. Swapped to a s400 based turbo, and it spooled slower as expected but leaves alot more room for more power up top. Ended up selling truck so not sure if it ever was fully tested on dyno.
Ah ok, so it sounds like it would be a great turbo down the road, but not right now. I think I will stick with the smaller t4 Gt45 then with the 1.05 AR. I think you are right, it suits my power goals better.
Going to pick up a 50 mm wastegate, BOV, and a used fbody 4l60e today. I'm going to follow everyone's advice and skip upgrading teh 4l60e. It should live for a while at my "lower" power level but eventually will be replaced.
To bad it is so difficult to use a 700r4. I have a built one from my dads car just sitting in the garage.
John, the 4L60e will do fine, just upgrade it a little. Contact Dana at Pro Built Automatics as he sells packages for each transmission specifically. No need to pull your hair out. One of my neighbors swapped and runs a 4L60e behind his nine second C6 ZR1, he's very happy with it.
Ok I will. I'm trying to do one thing at a time since money is tight right now. Working part time as a full time college student doesn't allow me to spend a ton of money at once. Everything I'm trying to do will be spaced out like how the V6 build was. $200 here, $200 there, etc etc. I wish I could just buy everything up front but I know it will all come together in the end.
Thanks for the advice Rob! I will contact Dana, I have heard great things.
Question for everyone, will 2.5" intercooler piping work or should I shoot for 3"?
Less of an intake restriction will allow for the same power at less boost pressure, otherwise you're just heating things up unnecessarily, so shoot for a 3" intake for the horsepower level you're shooting for. Yeah Dana is a great guy. I believe it was Redline that introduced the automatic behind the blown ZR1 engine, and a lot of guys started experimenting with different ones, and the 4L60e seems to be the transmission of choice because they are cheap enough, and can be upgraded to death...
Thanks Rob, I wanted to make sure that the 3" wasn't overkill for my setup. Trying to keep things simple.
I see that the upgrade packages are very fair on Probuilt's site. I will have to pick one up down the road and have the transmission rebuilt. From what I have read, the 4l60's are a little out of my knowledge and comfort level to rebuild myself.
To bad it is so difficult to use a 700r4. I have a built one from my dads car just sitting in the garage.
What's the issue with using a 700R4? If it's a recent model then there's little if anything internally different than the 60E other than the "E" part. Hard parts are fully interchangeable so if your 700 has been "built", you may have what need already.
I've just gone through this whole process of specifying my own TH700 and have done the same with a 4L60E. Aside from the specific shift kits used, the parts lists are practically identical.
The 700 can be a tough transmission.
Skinny, the problems that I see is the speedo output, spacer needed, and the TV cable. It would be great to use if I could, but I don't want to go through the hassle. I would rather put the 4l60e in and not have to worry about it (besides holding power).
As for the hard parts in the trans, we really don't know what has been done to it other than the transmission shop offering $1500 on the spot for it. My dad bought it from our neighbor (who has since moved away) for $200. If I was more knowledgeable when it came to transmissions I would swap the parts over in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I don't trust myself with them other than to install and remove.
I'm sure eventually I will either get the 4L60E built or go with a t56. The t56 route sounds more fun, but not in the cards right now. We will see how long the 4l60e lasts.
If you are starting fresh I would go with a bone stock 4l80e right off the hop. A stock 4l60e is not going to be a fan of that added power. But if it gets you by until you go T56 I'm sure it will last on low boost. T56 was one of my favorite swaps I made. I liked the build 80e but just got bored of it and wanted something more enjoyable since I mainly just attend car meets and drive my car to work.
I would honestly go with the on3 or vs 7875 or even the cheaper 7665 off the bat on a 4.8L. I have the GT45 on my 5.3L and being auto it wasn't too laggy, but my buddies 4.8L with a speed Inc stg 1 cam it's pretty laggy. However once in boost its a rocket. SBE 4.8, cam, truck intake 15psi his Monte does 10.9@130mph pump gas and foot braking the car and I have his tune set fairly soft since he beats the **** out of it.
Another plus to the smaller on3 or vs is physical size.
Skinny, the problems that I see is the speedo output, spacer needed, and the TV cable.
Fair enough. I hadn't really thought about the LS aspect of your build. Just the integrity of the transmission.
I can understand the added level of complexity in adapting the 700. I'd probably skip it too.
Good luck with the build. While I'm not a turbo guy, I will be interested in your progress nonetheless.
Very cool John! Nice to see you making some moves with the car, although I am bummed that i never got to go for a ride with the sixer in it. I was hoping that the GTO was not the end of the thirdgens fro you. Looks like it is not!
Thank you for the nice comments everyone! I will be updating this thread as I go along. I ended up purchasing a few parts over the last few days. I picked up a 4L60E with a stock stall, BOV, Wasegate, and a manual boost controller. The 4L60E came from a trans am and the stall looks to be a stock replacement. All the turbo parts are eBay, but I picked them up cheap. Saved a good chunk there. I'm still on the lookout for a fbody pan and a few other used items. The wastegate and BOV will be getting a nice coat of black paint... lol
Personally I would just stay away from the 4L60 and go for the 80. They can hold a ton of power with just an HD2 shift kit. Check out Sloppy Mechanics "Don't bs me" build on youtube that he just finished. I think he's running a 78/75 and in the driving videos he's been posting recently it seems to spool pretty damn well and that's with a 4.8.
Unfortunately there is a lot of hidden costs in installing the 4l80e. It would be great, but i already purchased the 4l60e. It is a drop in replacement for the 700r4 and easily controlled with the OBDII system.
Down the road I will either upgrade to a 4l80e or t56. Both will cost a good chunk of change.
Personally I would just stay away from the 4L60 and go for the 80. They can hold a ton of power with just an HD2 shift kit. Check out Sloppy Mechanics "Don't bs me" build on youtube that he just finished.
I say the 4L60 is better because not only does he already have it and can begin with the upgrades, but his horsepower goal is only 500-RWHP. A modded one will handle way more than that. Not to mention, by the time you get done ordering a pizza and watching that Sloppy Mechanic episode on what to do with the 4L80, he would already have the 4L60 installed and ready to go. It's kinda like PCM selection. You can watch an hour of a youtube show explaining how to install it and how to tune with it, when there are systems that drop right in within seconds and are specific to the car...
I have a friend that went with a 80 in stead of a 60 in his buick. Nothing but a pain in the *** and it was a good chunk of change too. 60s are everywhere and pretty cheap to boot.
Also there's a guy selling on the classifieds a ls1 intake. Figured I'd let ya know if you haven't looked
Thanks Rob for clarifying why I chose to go with the 4l60e!
Cypris, I took a look at the LS1 intake and there is no rails. Ideally I would like to buy both of them together. I think at this point I'm still going to just shave the truck intake. I would rather put 4-5 hours of work into it than $200-$300 into an ls1 intake. Down the road I would probably upgrade but for now I'm trying to keep this build budget oriented. Thanks though!
I thought for the 200 that included rail. Sorry. I must have stolen mine for 150 and it came with rails. Personally I love the shaved truck intakes and theyre actually pretty dang good.
Yeah if I can find a deal like that I would jump all over it!
The shaved truck intakes work pretty well too, we will have to see. My worry is the height, I need to do more research on motor mounts etc.
I'm doing a 4.8 swap as well. I can't find all these great deals either.
The shaved truck intake will work under stock hood but you'll need to clearance the underside. I don't think the alternator will though if you're using truck accessories. There's a vid where a guy made it work on youtube. I can find the vid if you need me to.
I plan on using these mounts.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/LS-LSX-Engine-Swap-Adapter-Plates-Engine-Mounts-1-Set-Back-4-8-5-3-5-7-6-0-6-2-/231829660999?hash=item35fa1fe547%3Am%3AmfPPUVL3XPwvfLhdYRB5tFQ&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac1d28522-6fe6-11e7-bdc9-74dbd1804f2b%257Cparentrq%253A712b5fc415d0aa415d6a79b3fff93f32%257Ciid%253A1
i saw these suggested on another YouTube vid, guys a member here. Agearhead4life is the name I believe.
I would rather put 4-5 hours of work into it than $200-$300 into an ls1 intake. Down the road I would probably upgrade but for now I'm trying to keep this build budget oriented. Thanks though!
Coming to the party late-- Have you looked into the Dorman OE replacement intake? I believe that it's meant as an LS2 intake and has the 3 or 4 bolt holes for the throttle bodies. It's a great option if it works for height.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm just keeping my eyes open for some deals. Locally and on the forums, gotta cover all the bases! LOL
As far as the motor mounts, I believe I still need to track down the a set of 4th gen mounts for the setback plates. I know the truck mounts are different.
Billgluckman, if you could find that video that would be great! Thanks!
I'm tearing apart the V6 kit later this month to ship it to the new owner. Really waiting for the money to come through for that before I buy anymore parts. I have the whole winter to get this build together so I'm not really in a rush. I will probably use that money to buy my chinese gt45 turbo, injectors, and some other odds and ends.
Any reason you're going with those mount from ebay? You can get a cheaper set that's the same thing from summit racing. All you need are those plates and v8 motor mounts. Plus it's not very hard to get free shipping from summit lol
After more motor mount research there is a ton of options out there!
I found an fbody pan locally for $50, going to pick it up tonight. Even comes with the gasket! I saw the pick up tube in the picture as well, so hopefully I can snag that. If not I will just purchase it.
Edit: The guy has the pick up tube, dipstick, dipstick tube, and windage tray too. He said he will throw it all in for free. Oh how I love craigslist. He also has an Improved Racing Bafle. Is this overkill for my setup? I don't see the engine seeing a lot of track or autocross right now. Just a lot of street miles. He is asking $80.
And to think I was about to pull the trigger on a used pan set for $250 the other week.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm just keeping my eyes open for some deals. Locally and on the forums, gotta cover all the bases! LOL
As far as the motor mounts, I believe I still need to track down the a set of 4th gen mounts for the setback plates. I know the truck mounts are different.
Billgluckman, if you could find that video that would be great! Thanks!
I'm tearing apart the V6 kit later this month to ship it to the new owner. Really waiting for the money to come through for that before I buy anymore parts. I have the whole winter to get this build together so I'm not really in a rush. I will probably use that money to buy my chinese gt45 turbo, injectors, and some other odds and ends.
i think that's the video that shows the hood clearancing. Look at his other videos too for the alternator how to
Originally Posted by cypris09
Any reason you're going with those mount from ebay? You can get a cheaper set that's the same thing from summit racing. All you need are those plates and v8 motor mounts. Plus it's not very hard to get free shipping from summit lol
the only ones I've found at summit that have the notch are more expensive. If you know of some let me know because I have summit coupon. Lol
Originally Posted by C2YT
After more motor mount research there is a ton of options out there!
I found an fbody pan locally for $50, going to pick it up tonight. Even comes with the gasket! I saw the pick up tube in the picture as well, so hopefully I can snag that. If not I will just purchase it.
Edit: The guy has the pick up tube, dipstick, dipstick tube, and windage tray too. He said he will throw it all in for free. Oh how I love craigslist. He also has an Improved Racing Bafle. Is this overkill for my setup? I don't see the engine seeing a lot of track or autocross right now. Just a lot of street miles. He is asking $80.
And to think I was about to pull the trigger on a used pan set for $250 the other week.
Used pan prices on forums are crazy. I ended up just buying new.
07-18-2017, 09:59 PM
. Use whatever the turbo has for discharge 
