Lots of people have questions about emmisions and i was just thinking if an emmisions board would be good where people could just go and at the very least get stickys on emmision facts, or even lesser than that there could be a tech article on emmisions, i dont see any really informative ones out there that is..


Just a thought passing through.

 

not a bad idea, maybe in this tech article about how to keep emissions down and what kinda mods can be done to the stock factory thirdgen emissions to keep them legal and to gain performance. or like you said a sticky in exhaust board maybe to help some people out.

 

it sounds like the emissions stuff would be under the exhaust board most likely.

but still a good idea.

 

From what I've heard reading some of the messages on here, the emission laws differ greatly according to what state you're in, so would there not be the problem of messages being posted asking "what is the law in XYZ state?" and so on? The majority of messages posted in the emmisions board would be moved to the regional boards and there'd be nothing left!

Just a thought.

 

Well my main idea was just information on what Emmisions really is....


i just read a very interesting huge book about emmisions, and theres a lot of information that would help people just flat out understand it if they only knew.

for instance did you know that NOX emmisions are deadly if breathed in only 5% contamination for 3 minutes...

or the fact that the ONLY way to have an NOX emmit from the exhaust is to have combustion tempeuratures over 2500* F,

if the temps inside the chamber never hit 2500*F, you never have any NOX created.

interesting huh? so THATS why they lowered compression in the 70's, among other reasons, it reduced heat and therefore NOX.

 

I think a sticky at the top of an emissions forum could be placed there directing questions like "whats the law in this state" to do a google search for that particular states EPA page. I'm sure it would take some education, but I'll bet all forums get their share of inappropriate questions.

Theory of how to minimize emissions (like starting off with a good running motor), peoples experiences (like using methanol), tuning for emissions (a bit leaner mixture for places that don't monitor NOX), etc. specific to thirdgens would all be pretty helpful IMO.

Emissions as a topic is pretty broad, it involves a number of things. Though all aspects of emissions are already indirectly covered by alot of the boards, i.e. tech/general engine, exhaust, PROM tuning, as well as the specific induction boards, it'd be nice to have it all in one place IMO.

 

I think that if there was going to be anything on this, it would be a sticky in the exhaust board to a site that would have a list of states so that someone could chose and go from there. Or put it in the regional boards and have the certain states coverd, so when someone is going to ask "whats the law in Nj about this and that" they can refer to the sticky... But the sticky would also have to include ways of slidding by and ideas on how to pass and what is not needed and what people have done to do this. NOx realy builds up if you sit for a long time and have a clogged cat.. it builds up and when they run it on the dyno, thats when it gets shot out... hehe if there is a board, people from NJ and Cali can lead it!! hehehe

 

I think the problem with a sticky on the exhaust board is that although emissions come out of the exhaust, it is not strictly an exhaust issue--it involves alot of other things like state of tune, tuning to pass emissions, parts selection, fuels, etc.

I could see an emissions board with a 'warning' under the title stating that the board IS NOT for questions like 'whats the law here,' similar to the PROM board were it states 'this is not a referal service, not PROM begging...'

This would also be similar to the PROM board as there is no one answer or sure-fire formula on how to pass emissions that is all inclusive. Then again, a major part of emissions (TUNING!!) could technically be covered by the PROM board(for EFI anyway).

Bigals: This is not intended as a flame--NOx emissions are a biproduct of very high combustion temperatures and are created for no other reason--not sitting for a long time or a clogged cat. See Kingtal0n's last post. Also, like any other gas in the exhaust, they cannot and do not build up to be shot out at another time, like when the car is on a dyno.

An emissions board could serve to clear up things like this, as well as ways to solve issues, like use of water injection for a combo that is too outragious to pass any other way. Of course, a seperate board may not be practical as demand may not justify it.

 

not to flame you either, but its how i failed twice... my mech told me what the deal was.. he let it sit over night and started her back up the next day... passed. I never said it doesnt come from hot temps, i am saying that if you have a clogged cat and have it building up while waiting in line for 45 mins on a 105* august day, and they put you on the dyno to test, it will throw you about 1000-1500 pts higher then whats accepted... if i had a scanner id show you the emmissions report. also got pulled over like 4 times cause of that stupid red sticker you get... i guess the cops couldnt find anyone out there with ther seat belts off...

 

No need to scan the test report--I believe you about that But my point is that the only way NOx can form during the chemical reaction that occurs during combustion is at or above a certain temperature and will not occur below this temp--it is impossible for it to form any other way in your engine. Also, 'build up' implies that NOx gasses are collecting somewhere No way.

If it had not yet passed, I'd have recommended 1) replacing the cat, 2) new 180-190 deg. thermostat, 3) verify EGR operation (its primary function is to lower combustion temp to reduce the formation of NOx), and 4) verify A.I.R. operation. This is one kind of situation I think an emissions board would be suited to.

Some or all of the above stuff poorly functioning or not working at all may total up to a car that could have a hard time passing--it may pass on a cool evening or even a regular day, but throw in a HOT day and it might be enough to fail miserably. You can do surprising things in the right environment--Car Craft had an emissions article a few years ago where they got a 1966 Lemans (stock w/ no emissions equipment, motor in great condition, IM240 test) tuned to almost pass for 1998 standards!!! However, the car was tuned (by choosing primary rods, adjusting accel pump function, and a distributor re-curve) right on the dyno they measured emissions on, right before they checked. I'd bet if they set the car up on a cool evening and tested it on a hot day, or vise versa, it wouldn't pass for one reason or another since it can't compensate for changes in the ambient atmosphere. Point being that if a pre-emissions car can be made to pass, one of our cars could still pass despite some equipment missing/not functioning. Your car eventually passed w/o throwing a bunch of money at it, so you probably don't care about the particulars. I confess, I probably wouldn't care either--the amount of emissions EFI cars put out are a small fraction of what it was before EFI--I think in most (not all) cases if a stockish EFI car is significantly polluting its also running crappy. This would be a good topic for such a board.

 

well, it was on my taurass, and i dont have any AIR lines, but my cat is clogged up good!! the Z passed with flying colors... could it have something to do with the i pipe slightly seperated at where it meets the cat? mmmmmmmaybe.. we will see this august when i put cam, heads, headers, new cat, cat back... headers will not have AIR tubes but will still run line to cat. for emmisions purpouses only.

 

Ugh, a friend of mine had trouble passing with a Taurus; it was a piece.

Its been a long time since I read about this, but I think the air tubes to the manifolds or headers are for startup emissions only, and as long as you keep the line to the cat it won't impact the sniffer test.

If you're going with the 305 torquers and a cam that is suited to the TPI powerband, you shouldn't have any trouble passing as long as everything works. I barely squeeked by on HC with my 91, but I did squeek by