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what to get with gm performance crate engine

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:03 PM
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what to get with gm performance crate engine

I appreciate the advice I've received from this board. That's why I'm giving up on the 305 and going for a 350 crate engine. I have a 1984 trans am, and I'm looking at the "290HP / 350 Small Block Chevrolet Long Block GM Crate Engine". What brand and type of part do yall recommend for the following?
Intake manifold
Carburetor (I'm thinking Holly with electric choke. Don't know which CFM)
distributor
gaskets, intake bolts, dipstick, etc.


Any tips on getting a good price? I think I saw some reference to a Thanksgiving sale last year at SDPC. Thanks
Old 10-03-2012, 05:19 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Edelbrock 2101 Performer
quadrajet off late 70's pickup truck.
grab the distributor from that truck, while you're pulling parts.
Fel Pro gaskets- everyone says to not use the cheap blue intake gaskets for an aftermarket intake, but i've never had an issue with them. the 307 in my pickup has an performer 2101 intake on it that i put on that engine in 1999 when that engine was in my Nova and it's still sealed up nice and tight. use the intake bolts, dipstick, and every other oddball thing you might need from your stock 305. just scrub it all with some mineral spirits, scuff it with some scotch brite, and shoot some semi gloss black spray paint on everything to make it look good before attaching it to your shiny new engine.
Old 10-03-2012, 06:22 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

If it is going in a Camaro get an Edelbrock Airgap with a Holley 4150 series 600 to 750 cfm. Mechanical choke or electric choke will work. On a Firebird Edelbrock performer intake same carb.
Old 10-03-2012, 09:59 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

I'd avoid that crate engine. It is basically a 1970's smog motor. Way over priced. First thing you need to figure out is inspection/emissions if this is going to be a daily driver. What swap will be legal or undetected? Let us know, and we can go from there.
Old 10-03-2012, 12:42 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

That's a good idea novaderrik - I'll strip the 305 for the minor parts and clean them up.
Mmadden55 - is that due to hood clearance? I have a trans-am. The hood scoop actually feeds into the top of the air filter. It's more gee wiz than functional.

Pancherj -I'm open to other engines. This will be my weekend toy, but I want reliability. This is also my first engine swap. I used to have an old impala with a "rebuilt 350". That thing slung oil everywhere. That's why I'm a little hesitant to get a rebuilt 350. But, if you know of a good company with a good rebuilt sbc, let me know. I don't want to speed too much more than $2000. There are other items on my car that needs work. This is an 84 trans am, and it's exempt from most inspection standards in TX. Emmissions aren't checked. Brakes, horn, seat belts, etc just need to work.
Old 10-03-2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Understood. I would buy a basic 350 shortblock and source better heads, intake and camshaft. If you go that route, there are many different combinations that would make a good cruiser with power. Vortec heads, RPM intake and a camshaft with something like 220 duration at .050" on a 109LSA with as much lift as the heads can handle is what I would shoot for (probably around .540" for a well setup Vortec head). $2000 probably wont be enough, but $2500 should get you real close.

I am just concerned that the "290HP" will feel more like 200HP when it is in the car (with accesories and an exhaust). That isn't much better than a 305.
Old 10-03-2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Good point. I need to make sure I'm comparing apples to apples with the 305 and 350. Maybe I'm reading the 305 numbers at the rear wheels and the 350 numbers at the crankshaft.
Old 10-04-2012, 04:26 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Yes - the gm performance engines are gross hp. The 305 l69 is rated at 190 net hp, and I can't find an estimate for the crate engine net hp. This still seems like a good deal:

http://paceperformance.com/i-5146377...te-engine.html

$1900 isn't bad. So, what cfm should I get for the carb? Will my stock distributor work?
Old 10-05-2012, 01:05 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

a quadrajet is the best carb you are going to find.. period.. see my first post in this thread.. this also simplifies things because things like your stock fuel, pcv, and brake booster lines and throttle cable bracket will hook up like stock.
it doesn't look like the intake on that engine can accept a spread bore carb- if that's the case, get the engine without the intake and buy an Edelbrock 2101 separately.
your stock distributor won't work because it doesn't have any mechanical or vacuum advance capabilities.
Old 10-05-2012, 11:48 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Thanks. I started reading up on the quadrajet, and I realized that I have another level of complexity to my project. My car has a computer controlled quadrajet and an electric fuel pump in the tank. Both are undesirable for different reasons. I see why you suggest an older style quadrajet without a computer. I also read the tech article from this site on choosing a carb. That recommended a 750 cfm carb with mechanical secondaries. Holley for performance or edelbrock for simplicity and reliability. It also recommended that I drop the tank and replace the fuel pump with a carb pickup or sump.
Old 10-05-2012, 11:40 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

This is ridiculous! Everytime the 305 is mentioned, someone screams "replace in with a 350". But I still haven't found a good write up on a 350 swap! Obviously, I should have a good plan before I start buying a crate engine and parts. So, my 305 uses a computer controlled carb and distributor. If I go with a standard crate engine and carb, the electric fuel pump in the gas tank will be a problem. Replace the fuel sensor unit with one that doesn't have a pump? No one seems to have a good answer. The discontinued zz4 kit had a new electric pump and a modified chip for the carb computer and distributor. But that kit was for an automatic. Will that chip work on a manual? If I go with a basic carb, will I get a check engine light? Will the cruise control work? I'm starting to consider refurbishing the 305 with upgrades to the heads and carb. Like this:
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...o/viewall.html

Like I said, there are a lot of arrogant kids yelling "drop in a 350! drop in a 350!" Ok - HOW? And don't tell me to search. I have. All I see is installing a 350 with a mediocre fuel delivery and other undisclosed headaches.
Old 10-06-2012, 06:57 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by johnw999
If I go with a basic carb, will I get a check engine light? Will the cruise control work?
I don't know whether the following will be helpful or not, but it may provide food for thought, if nothing else: I removed the computer altogether and swapped in a 350 HO Deluxe, which is pretty much a turnkey motor. While it fit my needs, you may find it a bit spendy.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...49874/10002/-1

My 305 was equipped with a mechanical fuel pump, so that wasn't an issue. The check engine light will show. I simply removed it. The cruise control will work:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-function.html

I also swapped on a serp system (though your OE will certainly work):

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...rsion-kit.html

Though probably unnecessary I threw in dual electric fans:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...electrics.html

I used a direct-fit, three-inch exhaust system: Hooker 2055's (Jeg's 520-2055). Catco high-flow converter (Summit CTO-9118). Hooker catback (Summit HOK-16823HKR).

The car is reliable. I'd take it on a cross country trip in a heart beat. Best of luck with your project.

JamesC
Old 10-06-2012, 09:01 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Thanks - I was getting a bit frustrated.
Old 10-06-2012, 09:03 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by johnw999
Like I said, there are a lot of arrogant kids yelling "drop in a 350! drop in a 350!" Ok - HOW? And don't tell me to search. I have. All I see is installing a 350 with a mediocre fuel delivery and other undisclosed headaches.

Arrogant kids? What are you calling "a mediocre fuel delivery and undisclosed headaches"? If you want no headaches you should just leave it stock.

Regardless, most 350s are worse than the good 305's these cars came with. It was only in the late 80s that any 350s were decent performers. The 305's made more power than the the 350s of the 70s and got better mileage. The Goodwrench 350 you listed (the HO version probably) is a perfect example of a garbage station wagon motor from 1977 that's best left in 1977. Your 305 is probably faster.

Beyond that, the 350 is a better platform if you're wanting more power and are trying to build a street rod or race car. A 383 is a far better power return for your money than a 350 or a 305, but 383's need to breathe and any stock intake isnt going to cut it which can goes into aftermarket carb territory or expensive aftermarket EFI territory.

Now as for a "Writeup" on installing a 350. You do realize the 350 and the 305 (And 327 and 307 and 383 and 400 and 302) are all externally identical. The only differences are going to be year to year variances which would take a book to write out, but all of which are easily dealt with. Any 350 will bolt in place.

The hard part of this conversion is the intake/fueling/spark, which is no different than if you were doing it to a 305 or a 383 or a 400, so it's not 350 specific. A 350 is just a 305 with a larger bore. It will bolt in place. It's up to you to make sure you get the right flywheel (the only mechanical conversion part you MAY need depending on whether you get a newer late 80s+ 350 or an older one. Some have dipsticks on different sides by year, but differences are minor. Deal with them as they arise.

If you want to swap your existing intake/injection/carb whatever setup onto another engine you need to learn what's involved with that because that's where the issues lie. If you get rid of the computer you will have to deal with your fuel pump (you need to set up a new trigger wire for it, ECM turns it on), your torque converter lockup(you have a manual so irrelevant), and maybe your electric fan. An electric fuel pump is a factory part and can be swapped into or out of your car as needed. A mallory 4309 regulator is the correct part to regulate an electric fuel pump down to carb pressure levels. To switch to fuel injection will require a slightly different setup.

A 350 swap is as close to a cakewalk of an engine swap as you're going to get, and to come up with a "writeup" of the specificity AND scope you're talking about would be the size of an encyclopedia. Stop being lazy and do the research to figure out what you need to do. If it were that hard no one would be doing it and there are, literally, a million ways to do it. It depends on budget, needs, priorities, etc.

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 10-06-2012 at 09:13 AM.
Old 10-06-2012, 09:58 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

You want a quick writeup? I'll give you one:
  1. Disconnect all wires, hoses, cables, etc. from the 305.
  2. Rotate all hardware on the 305 fully CCW.
  3. Lift 305 out of engine compartment.
  4. Install every piece off of the 305 onto the 350, that the 350 is missing.
  5. Lower 350 into engine compartment.
  6. Rotate all hardware on the 350 fully CW.
  7. Install all wires, hoses, cables, etc. to the 350.
  8. Place 305 into trash.
That's all there is to say about it. So trivial, it hardly even qualifies as a "swap". It's EXACTLY THE SAME as if you were replacing a 305 with another 305, because in general, the 305 and 350 are EXACTLY THE SAME on the outside.

There may be a few minor "tuning" changes required. "Tuning" is a whole other subject, something EVERY "hot-rodder" (as opposed to "mechanic payer") should master independently, and is beyond the scope of a "swap".

Now...if you're making any OTHER changes, those are also beyond the scope of a "swap", but can be dealt with separately.

Last edited by sofakingdom; 10-06-2012 at 10:02 AM.
Old 10-06-2012, 10:12 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Now that we've got that out of the way:

The "260 HP" Goodwrench motor is IDENTICAL, down to the last part number, to the motors that made 165 HP WHEN THEY WERE INSTALLED IN VEHICLES in the 70s. Which tells me, if you buy that motor and INSTALL IT IN A VEHICLE, it'll make right about .... the same amount of HP as a "165 HP" motor did, WHEN INSTALLED IN A VEHICLE. It'll have more torque, but less HP, compared to say the L69. It's about like switching from a sports-car setup to a tractor setup.

Not "A Good Idea".

The "290 HP" version is IDENTICAL to the "260 HP" one, except it has a better cam. Still the same low-compression, low-power, low-potential CRAP.

Still not "A Good Idea" yet.

The 330 HP one, with the Vortec heads, is a whole other matter. That motor made somewhere around 240 or 250 HP in the trucks it came in (96-2000) with the crappy induction system, restrictive manifolds & exhaust, and weenie cam it was crippled with. Put a Comp XE268, a Performer RPM, headers and a decent exhaust, and a Holley carb on it, it makes about 375-400 at the crank. BY FAR the best bang for the buck at GM.

NOW we're getting closer to "A Good Idea".

Last edited by sofakingdom; 10-06-2012 at 10:26 AM.
Old 10-06-2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Ok – I start researching my 305 engine, and I find this:

-Return the 305 and get a 350. Do it now.
-I have always thought the 305 should have never been put into
production
-It is not worth wasting time and money on a 305 short block
PERIOD.
-A 305 to 350 swap can be accomplished by a blind, one armed
man in a wheelchair.
-get rid of that 305 and get a 350.
305s are boat anchors.

Which led me to think that a 350 swap shouldn’t be hard. But then I find this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...nk-pickup.html

I’m not going to re-engineer my fuel tank. And I found all this, because I searched. I’m not lazy. I want to have a good plan before I pull the engine from my car (the engine needs to be rebuilt or replaced). And if I just install a 350, then I’m sure I’ll have fuel starvation and timing issues. Would I need to install a new electronic spark control? I’ll figure this out myself.
Old 10-06-2012, 02:13 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

I’m sure I’ll have fuel starvation and timing issues.
Why? What makes you have this "sure"?

I had a 400 in my 83; nice lumpy solid cam (Comp 282S); stock fuel system from end to end, tank sending unit lines pump & filter, right up to the computer-controlled carb; no fuel starvation issues that I can recall. Only ran it that way for 6 or 7 years or so and about 80,000 miles though, so who knows, maybe some would have cropped up eventually.

Same deal with "timing".

It's all in the TUNING. How many times must we say that word? That's a COMPLETELY different matter from "swap" or even "install".

If your existing carb and distributor are in good shape, and your 350 doesn't have a cam that departs TOO radically from stock, you can re-use all of it. EVERY SINGLE PIECE. Maybe might need a little TUNING, but that's a bridge you can wait to cross over until you actually get to it.

Why are you SO DETERMINED that this has to be "hard"? Or that we out here are somehow obligated to detail every little thing you'll have to do? Would you be happier if we told you "Pick up the wrench; put it on the bolt; tighten your biceps and quads; relax; remove wrench; rotate entire wrench clockwise; put on bolt; tighten biceps; repeat until done; move wrench to next bolt; .... "? Come on d000d, YOU CAN DO THIS! It's just a car, not some kind of rocket science or something, you can handle it.
Old 10-06-2012, 11:20 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

If money is tight why dont you just pick up a low mileage vortec 350 for around 500 from a junkyard. most come with a reasonable warranty. Better yet, is you want to spend money on a fuel pump and ignition parts its hard to say no to a junkyard 5.3. It'll run forever however you'll need a trans to match, but your 5 speed wont last behind a 350 anyway.
Old 10-06-2012, 11:49 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Lets just focus on a good engine and fuel management setup for the trans am. Looks like I'm not the only one to question fuel starvation and timing.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...-question.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...lled-carb.html
Old 10-06-2012, 11:52 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

If those few little issues are really this much of a hassle for you, realistically you should probably be taking it to your local mechanic, have a tune up and oil change done, and just stick to putting fuel in it.
Old 10-07-2012, 02:51 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by Z28ricer
If those few little issues are really this much of a hassle for you, realistically you should probably be taking it to your local mechanic, have a tune up and oil change done, and just stick to putting fuel in it.
Agreed. All it takes is s swap to a HEI setup and to reuse the stock pump. I doubt a mostly stock 350 will be starved. If your that worried then go to a mechanical one. simple.
Old 10-07-2012, 06:32 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by Savage388
your 5 speed wont last behind a 350 anyway.
Mine has lasted a long time--but I drive in a reasonable manner. I can't imagine ever having any issues.

JamesC
Old 10-07-2012, 08:06 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

If your fuel system is defective, it may cause you trouble.

This has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with "swap".

Pay less attention to posts like those you posted. Just because other people don't know what they're doing, doesn't automatically mean that it's impossible for it to be known. Ever have a boss like that? One of those intellectual lightweights who, just because THEY don't know something, they automatically think that NO ONE ELSE possibly could either? Don't act like that. It's really annoying.

Usual cause of "fuel starvation" is crusties built up in the tank and fuel lines from years of sitting around with bad gas in them. Not related to "swap", "350", or any of the other topics at hand. If your fuel system is not defective in some way, you won't have that problem. If your fuel system DOES have that problem, you will have "fuel starvation" with your existing motor, same as any other. Fix it, INDEPENDENTLY of "swap".

The GM chip for the old "350 HO" conversion is LONG SINCE no longer available. Used to be a good way to go especially if you were starting out with a weenie LG4, but no longer an option. Best you can do nowadays, is go find a L69 car at the junkyard. (my car is a L69) It has a FAR better timing curve in it than the LG4's lazy grandma sedan setup, if that's what you've got. But it's not "necessary", as in, car won't run without it; just, it'll make the car run better. It's a form of TUNING.
Old 10-08-2012, 12:37 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by JamesC
Mine has lasted a long time--but I drive in a reasonable manner. I can't imagine ever having any issues.

JamesC
I guess a mild 350 isnt too hard on it, but mine just keeps getting worse no matter how nice I am to it. All I do is granny shift anymore which is just no fun, hell i havent had it above 4500 since i got it usaully ill shift at 2k.
Old 10-08-2012, 10:29 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Here is a example of a T5 upgrade to a w/c tranny.It kind of doesn't make much sense because it is expensive and when the price range from a pick and pull for a T56 is similar running from $2,500 to $1,500.

http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=146
Old 10-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Ok - what's yalls opinion on these 2 engine options:
A rebuilt 350 vortec 4 bolt with 1 piece rear seal from phoenix engines (about $2500+shipping)
http://www.phoenixmusclecar.com/Chevy-08.html

Use a local shop to rebuilt my 305 with performace parts. ($905+tax). Here is the shops response to my inquiry:
1- The rebuild on a 305 long block is $725.00
2- We offer a performance package for an additional $180.00 that includes an RV cam, matching springs, Double row chain, and Flattop pistons.



This doesn't address the heads on the 305, though.
Old 10-08-2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Buy a cheap core vortec 350 and have them rebuild it.

Wasting any more money on the 305 you have is just silly.
Old 10-09-2012, 04:37 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by sofakingdom
Now that we've got that out of the way:

The "260 HP" Goodwrench motor is IDENTICAL, down to the last part number, to the motors that made 165 HP WHEN THEY WERE INSTALLED IN VEHICLES in the 70s. Which tells me, if you buy that motor and INSTALL IT IN A VEHICLE, it'll make right about .... the same amount of HP as a "165 HP" motor did, WHEN INSTALLED IN A VEHICLE. It'll have more torque, but less HP, compared to say the L69. It's about like switching from a sports-car setup to a tractor setup.

Not "A Good Idea".

The "290 HP" version is IDENTICAL to the "260 HP" one, except it has a better cam. Still the same low-compression, low-power, low-potential CRAP.

Still not "A Good Idea" yet.

The 330 HP one, with the Vortec heads, is a whole other matter. That motor made somewhere around 240 or 250 HP in the trucks it came in (96-2000) with the crappy induction system, restrictive manifolds & exhaust, and weenie cam it was crippled with. Put a Comp XE268, a Performer RPM, headers and a decent exhaust, and a Holley carb on it, it makes about 375-400 at the crank. BY FAR the best bang for the buck at GM.

NOW we're getting closer to "A Good Idea".
just putting simple things like an aftermarket intake manifold, headers, and good flowing exhaust on those mid 70's smogger motors and then doing some basic tuning really wakes them up. they won't cause the rotation of the earth to be altered when you get on it, but a 350 from the 70's is better than any 305 from the 80's and early 90's.
Old 10-09-2012, 07:53 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by johnw999
2- We offer a performance package for an additional $180.00 that includes an RV cam, matching springs, Double row chain, and Flattop pistons.
Any time you ever hear anyone say "RV Cam", "3/4 Race Cam", "30-30 Cam", or just a single 3 digit number from 400-500 cam, or anything like that, you run the other way. That stuff is OLD and outdated and horrible. We've come a long way since the early 60s when that stuff was all you could get. You want part numbers, a card with measurements, and a brand name. Cams are very, very important and the vast majority of them are awful technology.
Old 10-09-2012, 08:05 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by novaderrik
just putting simple things like an aftermarket intake manifold, headers, and good flowing exhaust on those mid 70's smogger motors and then doing some basic tuning really wakes them up. they won't cause the rotation of the earth to be altered when you get on it, but a 350 from the 70's is better than any 305 from the 80's and early 90's.
Better than an LG4, maybe, which it should be considering the LG4 is a 70s 305. An LU5 woudl have a hard time too. But the LB9 and L69 would probably walk the vast majority of the 70s 350s, even if you left stock manifolds on the 305s compared to a bolt on 70s 350. The L03 and LU5 Im not too confident about, but I'd rather have a roller L03 engine than a 70s 350.

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 10-09-2012 at 08:08 AM.
Old 10-09-2012, 08:09 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Ummm there is this nifty little invention called a fuel pressure regulator. Hook one up to the feed and return lines. Send 5-7 PSI of fuel pressure to the carb and have the pump come on with the key. Drive away without dropping the tank and spending a fortune.
Old 10-09-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

The L69 would DRILL a 70s 350 so hard and deep it wasn't funny.

I traded in a 79 Z28 4-speed on my 83. I also owned a 78 Z28 at the same time. I KNOW what it was like, because I WAS THERE.

I had put double-hump heads, a Comp HE268 (yeah I know, but remember, this WAS 30-some years ago, and that's the BEST there was back then) and a 4.10 gear in the 79, to try to de-snail it somewhat; the 83 L69 would still WALK OFF AND LEAVE IT like it was standing still. The 78 was an auto so it was even worse. I could start my 83 out behind that 78 in traffic (w one of my little bro's driving it), take off from a light, pull out and pass it, and be back in front of it before the 83 was out of 2nd gear. In spite of being a 305, it was THAT MUCH faster than those old ridiculous embarrassing smogger turds.

Don't bother with the "260 HP" or "290 HP" motors for THAT EXACT REASON. They are the same trash that basically put an end (temporarily, fortunately) to "fast" cars coming off the showroom floor. Garbage.
Old 10-10-2012, 12:44 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by sofakingdom
The L69 would DRILL a 70s 350 so hard and deep it wasn't funny.

I traded in a 79 Z28 4-speed on my 83. I also owned a 78 Z28 at the same time. I KNOW what it was like, because I WAS THERE.

I had put double-hump heads, a Comp HE268 (yeah I know, but remember, this WAS 30-some years ago, and that's the BEST there was back then) and a 4.10 gear in the 79, to try to de-snail it somewhat; the 83 L69 would still WALK OFF AND LEAVE IT like it was standing still. The 78 was an auto so it was even worse. I could start my 83 out behind that 78 in traffic (w one of my little bro's driving it), take off from a light, pull out and pass it, and be back in front of it before the 83 was out of 2nd gear. In spite of being a 305, it was THAT MUCH faster than those old ridiculous embarrassing smogger turds.

Don't bother with the "260 HP" or "290 HP" motors for THAT EXACT REASON. They are the same trash that basically put an end (temporarily, fortunately) to "fast" cars coming off the showroom floor. Garbage.
there's your problem right there... i'll take a set of craptastical 882 smogger heads over the legendary "camel hump" heads in anything that doesn't have 11:1 compression and a solid cam. those heads are not only wasted on something like that, but also probably a bottleneck on a 9:1 motor and they are totally wasted if you still have the stock intake and exhaust manifolds no matter what other parts you throw in it.
Old 10-10-2012, 05:47 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

i'll take a set of craptastical 882 smogger heads over the legendary "camel hump" heads
I like that!! Spoken truly like someone who WASN'T THERE at the time, has no experience with cars from that era as they came from the factory, and doesn't understand the constraints that we had to work with (no such thing as AFR, TF, Dart, "Patriot", not even Edelbrock street heads ....). You're the kind of guy I always liked to see in the other lane next to me back then, because I knew they didn't stand a chance.

It was AMAZING how much of an improvement changing to the better stock heads was to those smogger motors. That took the compression from the usual 8.2:1 or thereabouts that yerbasic 882 type motor had, and raised it to right around 9:1. PLUS, improved the flow.

But that's beside the point, except to illustrate how BAD those old smogger motors (or their modern-day duplicates) are. Nobody is telling the OP to use double-humps on his motor; after all, this is 2012, not 1980. There are plenty of other options nowadays. It's EVEN LESS worthwhile to PAY for that old 70s garbage now than it was then.

Last edited by sofakingdom; 10-10-2012 at 05:51 AM.
Old 10-11-2012, 05:08 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

I'm going to compare the price of a rebuilt 350 with vortex and 1-piece rear seal to the 305 "hate me" build. I'm trying to get some prices from enginequest.
Old 10-11-2012, 11:25 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Vortec 350 L31 crate motor:

http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...13788/10002/-1

This is a STEAL for what you get. A 350 roller block with good heads, factory warranty, roller cam. Less than $2k. For less than $1k extra you can add another 100 hp.

Despite the alleged numbers (255hp), it will spank the 260 and 290hp Goodwrench 350s like they are iron dukes.
Old 10-12-2012, 07:46 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

That is basically the engine I have in my 85 now other than I have an LT1 cam in it. Which is basically the same cam with a tad more duration and lift, and it is a fun strong little motor. Nothing crazy power wise but more than enough to roast the tires and pull the car hard when compared to the 305 that came out of it.
Old 10-20-2012, 09:36 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex
Vortec 350 L31 crate motor:

http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...13788/10002/-1

This is a STEAL for what you get. A 350 roller block with good heads, factory warranty, roller cam. Less than $2k. For less than $1k extra you can add another 100 hp.

Despite the alleged numbers (255hp), it will spank the 260 and 290hp Goodwrench 350s like they are iron dukes.
Now it's starting to click! That is a good deal. Also, I think I can use the instruction manual from the discontinued ZZ4 kit to serve as my guide. This is what I'm looking at now:
350 L31-R long block engine (1 piece seal and 4 bolt main) $2053
Edelbrock 21163 vortec intake manifold to connect to the quadrajet - $286
Hooker Headers 2055 - $470
New electric fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, waterpump, thermostat, spark plugs and wires, distributor rebuild kit, knock sensor, metering rods, spark control - about $800
total - $3609
Old 10-20-2012, 09:40 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

question, though. Will my original distributor work with this vortec engine?
Old 10-20-2012, 10:08 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by johnw999
question, though. Will my original distributor work with this vortec engine?
The distributor you need depends on what intake manifold/EFI/Carb setup you use. It will use any distributor any other sbc will take. Just be aware you need to get a Vortec pattern intake due to changes in the port shapes. Distributor is interchangable with whatever else.

If you run a TPI, use TPI distributor, if you run an aftermarket carb, run a '75ish HEI distributor. If you run a q-jet, use the qjet distributor, etc.
Old 10-20-2012, 10:40 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Right: generally, the dist you want, will be dictated by the induction system. More specifically, whether it's electronically controlled or not.

But, any of them will work on that motor. Including the one off your existing motor, if you re-use that carb, computer, etc. on it ... all of which is completely compatible with it.

For the money especially, that's the best deal at GM IMO, hands down. We just can't emphasize that enough.
Old 11-15-2012, 08:42 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Ok - I'm getting closer to choosing my engine. I'm just refining my goal and plan. A local engine builder sells and engine that I like. It's a vortec 350 with a once piece seal and a hydraulic roller cam. It can also support a mechanical fuel pump. I can also buy it with a distributor and a quick fuel 680 cfm carb if a I want.

I bought the ZZ4 install guide. It has good info on re-using the quadrate carb and original distributor. I would have to install a stronger electric fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator.

If I go with the quick fuel carb, I have questions about the ECM. Obviously, it won't control timing and fuel metering anymore. I have a manual transmission, so computer shifting isn't an issue for me. Will the ECM still turn on the helper electric pump in the tank? Any other considerations? Feel free to share your opinions. Thanks
Old 11-15-2012, 09:17 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Someone may correct me but I don't think you would have an in tank pump in an 84 TA. All you should need is a mechanical pump and you are done.

But in any case if you did have an in tank pump controlled by the ECM then no it would not run the fuel pump as it would need a signal from the ignition system to know the engine is running in order to run the pump.
Old 08-31-2014, 09:55 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

So whats the deal with the deluxe style's carb, whats wrong with vacuum secondaires and such, because i may be swapping to carb when i do this depending on when my 305 bites the dust. Because that seems like a killer deal, then i couldsave up for the valve springs, rockers cam etc.
I see jasonC is running the deluxe... Are you using all the parts it came with? or did you swap them out? My apologies for bring up and old thread and kind of thread jacking this.
Old 02-11-2018, 10:36 PM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

I was looking back at this old thread of mine, and I have to laugh. I was so naive and worried about dropping the fuel tank. I ended up doing the LS swap. It took me 4 years to accomplish, and I paid an installer to do the tough stuff (I obviously took some breaks from the project). I got to know that fuel tank real well. I read through countless threads to find solutions to integration problems. There were a lot of them! I know now what I didn't know then. Either keep the original air/fuel/emission system, or be prepared to work with the fuel pump, ecm, and ignition. I almost went with a 350 crate engine. If I had gone that route, I would still replace the quadrajet with a quick fuel carb or efi. I like the cleaner engine bay. For those still around, thanks for patiently answer my questions.


Before:














After:








Last edited by johnw999; 02-11-2018 at 10:41 PM.
Old 02-12-2018, 12:08 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by johnw999

Hard to believe, but somewhere under all this mess is a SB Chevy.
Old 02-15-2018, 09:43 AM
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Re: what to get with gm performance crate engine

Originally Posted by NoEmissions84TA
Hard to believe, but somewhere under all this mess is a SB Chevy.
And this is why people choose to delete the SMOG system. Thanks, treehuggers! It's not like our cars even have that big of an impact on the environment anyway!
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