Synapsis

Gas just hit $3.06/gal here in Tucson. Time to start walking to work.

84L69TA

LOL...and it was you that was wondering why I wanted a 305 instead of a 350!

Synapsis

My Iroc is fine, it's running on 1.90/gal ethanol... it's my 4 banger Toyota truck that's expensive to drive.

Everything I need (including work) is within 3 miles of me, I feel sorry for people who have to commute to Phoenix/across Phoenix every day. Sheesh.

90_WS6_Formula

don't feel sorry for them... it's their own fault

CraZ-28

Hey, I do! I still have the good ol Iron Duke in my garage with a busted shifter cable. oh well, driving the Z is much more fun.

90_WS6_Formula

synapsis... where did you get the info for your E85 conversion?

Synapsis

http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports...5019_final.htm
http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports...55032final.htm
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/index.html

Well, the fuel pump I got from Holley that's "compatible with any fuel", wasn't. Time to switch to external.

90RS305

Gas just hit $3.29 up here in Tempe, I WISH it was $3.06

All I have is a 5.0L and 7.4L V8, looks like I'm getting me a motorcycle here soon....

Synapsis

3.06 was yesterday, now it's 3.18.

Cpt. Blasto

All those people I laughed at because their cars are missing four cylinders are now laughing at me
Reminds me of the time all the people I passed on the freeway were laughing at me after they saw me hitchhiking to benson when my car broke down...

Cpt. Blasto

Hell yeah synapsis, thanks for the links. You just provided the impetus for a packed weekend.
E85 seems to be the way to go
**** opec
****profiteers
and **** gougers
to tell you the truth, i think synapsis just brought the subject up to remind everybody about his alchohol burning machine.

Synapsis

It doesn't burn anything right now other than a hole in my wallet. 300$ for a fuel pump.

fast86z28

I'm kind of enjoying the prelude right now

However I do drive 64 miles round trip to and from work :/

Duck

Conversion to E85 completed -- Any chance that you'll be summarizing the conversion process in a "how-to" article? I'd like to get ready for when gas hits $6 a gallon...

Cpt. Blasto

Second that

Synapsis

Here's a quick and dirty version, I was going to do a more in-depth how to once I got the chip tuned so I could describe the differences.

- Any rubber seals: Change it to Viton. Nitrile seals will dry out and crack in a alcohol environment and will leak.
- Any rubber hoses: Switch to braided line or Viton hoses.
- Any aluminum parts (fuel rails): Get them hard anodized. Ions in the alcohol act as a battery using the aluminum as a ground and will corrode (galvanic corrosion).
- Fuel pressure regulator: Get an alcohol compatible version. They use a rubber diaphragm that will dry out.
- Fuel filter: Get a stainless element filter. The paper will disintegrate and a finer element is better anyway since there is a bit of corrosion present in the fuel from holding tanks, pumps at the station, etc.
- Fuel pump: You need an electrically isolated in-tank pump or an alcohol compatible external pump. Gasoline fumes in the tank don't have enough oxygen to ignite, but alcohol fumes are more flammable. This will be the most expensive component, around $300.
- Fuel tank: You really should have a spark arrestor in the neck, I don't. But I do keep a fire extinguisher in the car.
- Tuning: Alcohol lets you run more timing and more compression than regular fuel since the combustion is cooler. You will need to run 25-35% more rich than gasoline. Alcohol tends to be hard to start in the winter, especially in northern areas, a main reason why the fuel is 85% ethanol and not 100%. Mileage may suffer a bit, but it *is* possible to tune it to the same and better mileage than regular fuel.

If you need cheaper parts (most alcohol-compatible parts in the aftermarket are for 1000 hp drag cars), you can get some parts (filters, pumps) from 2001+ Chevy S-10's, some Silverados, and some 2004+ Impalas from your local parts store. The filter is much cheaper this way, the Chevy S-10 fuel pump is just as much as an Aeromotive pump. MSD stocks Viton fuel injector seals.

This is your rough how-to.

Duck

Thanks! Great info!

I've not seen similar research for ThirdGens elsewhere, and this will serve as a basis for how I'll approach the forthcoming "Mad Max" era when I move to Kingman.

IMHO, if you have known, trusted methods and parts, selling a few kits would be worth a few bucks...

What about changing TPI injector sizes? Not required?

What is the estimated cost-per-mile compared to 100% gas?

bowtienick

iTrader: (1)

are all sensors compatible with alcohol, ie the oxygen sensor?
would any efi computer work?

Cpt. Blasto

You should totally make your own distiller. Especially because in Az there are only 3 places that distribute E85, and the only two open to the public are in pima county.

On a side note, I am currently constructing a thunderdome, Preseason tickets go on sale soon.

kinda_low

*hugs the 2.3l in my truck*

ChrisFormula355

60+ mpg, you get the best parking spaces, you can park it in your house and it won't get anything dirty, its a chick magnet, and oh yeah, it runs 10s in the 1/4 mile and goes 0-60 in a little over 2 seconds flat. What more could ya ask for??


EDIT: and yeah, the dog IS dead in that picture

Duck

Ummm, let me see ... oh, a trunk to hold a few cases of beer ... an enclosure to keep me warm and dry in the winter ... and windows that fog-up when I'm parked somewhere listening to "Jimmie's Chicken Shack" and watching the submarine races. Also, a back seat to haul around a live pit bull...

Synapsis

When I saw the reply was from "ChrisFormula" I knew what it was before I got to work to read it.

Regardless of what it goes into, you're still paying 3$+ a gallon for gas, like the rest of us. And parking a motorcycle in your living room.


Submarine races.

CraZ-28

I just about fell out of my chair when I saw that post.

Cpt. Blasto

I'm totally parking my car in my living room from now on.

ChrisFormula355

Well, for those days I leave the bike parked next to the computer and cruise my air-conditioned/heated beer carrying capable hatchback car

Ask any bike person...the best part about owning a sport bike...is owning a car too!

SchwarzCamaroRS

in cali its cheaper!!! haha, still sucks... im thinkin about getting a smaller car, keepin Schwarzy reserved for the weekends...

Synapsis

Almost forgot the questions.

I don't know about the stock TPI injectors since I have 24# SVOs. All I have is an intake and exhaust on the engine right now, and the 24# injectors have room to go. (From what I saw in the short time before the pump died, I haven't done much WOT. Just idling and cruising.)

Cost per mile would naturally be lower since the fuel is lower, but if you count everything else *scribble, calculate*... ok. If I drove my thirdgen every day (10 miles), 7 days a week that'd be 3650 miles. At $3/gallon with my average mpg (20.5) that'd be around $550 in gasoline or $350 in E85. You'd save $200 the first year, not including any registration and tax breaks you might get. Not including the price of parts. You'd get that back in 4 years, less if you drive more miles than I do. You'd get it back in a year if you drove ~40 miles a day.

I have not seen anything that says it'd be bad for the stock style O2 sensor. E85 doesn't contain lead like race gas which is usually what damages sensors. I have a wideband to watch just in case.

Any EFI computer would work as long as you can get it to add fuel and modify the spark values somehow. I'm using a stock ECM with a custom burned chip. So far the only changes are fuel values and some code to read the wideband into the ALDL data stream.

EDIT: Fubared my math.

Synapsis

Oh, another thing. You may think, "$200 a year doesn't seem like much to save." But the calculations are for 87 octane gasoline, E85 is 102 octane. That's all kinds of happiness for power adder folks. Another $50/year savings.

Duck

This is outrageously good and exactly the direction I'd like to go with my '87 IROC, especially when I get to Kingman. For the past few years I've averaged 10-12K miles yearly in a area only 40x60 miles, Just imagine how the mileage will jump when the dog is let off the leash, heh.

Are there enough places around AZ to buy E85?

Other than added cost of fuel, are there any changes in tuning when running gasoline, if on a trip and E85 isn't available?

BTW, if you have enough photos and text, I can design, layout and produce a PDF How-To booklet on the conversion.

Synapsis

There are two in Tucson, I don't know about anywhere else in Az.

If you have EFI, you can just put your gasoline chip back in as long as you haven't changed any hardware parameters between chips. I'm going to wire up a switch to my ECM and store a second set of tables for this purpose.

Cpt. Blasto

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infr...e/locator.html

One of the links synapsis provided however, details a way to make your own E85. Moonshine until you get a license from the atf though.

Duck

Yeah, I archived content from the links and the distiller is cool ... but several thousand bucks investment pushes the break-even point pretty far in the future, especially since it appears gas will be stabilizing between 3-4 bucks for now. Only a couple of E85 fueling stations in AZ? Sigh, that's a disappointment...

Synapsis

More people that convert, more demand, more stations. The local Chevy dealership here advertises the E85 capability of their cars on the radio.

Cpt. Blasto

I definitely don't want to discourage you. First of all, there are benefits beyond just the cost of fuel. Imagine never failing emissions. Imagine being able to run insane compression and spark timing. Imagine being able to tell the gas gougers, oil companies, and arabs who supply the crap, that they have bean boning us in the *** for far too long. Anyone care to take a guess what the net gains haliburton has made in light of huricane disaster?
And just because it appears to be stabilizing at 3-4 bucks, what will we be saying in 10/2006? "Did you hear? Gas has dropped 4 cents to 6.27!!"
I hate to be overly pedantic, but we should take this opprotunity to blaze the road for changing what is now alternative fuel, into standard fuel . I mean, no one wants to give up driving a car with a v8 because there is no fuel for it, and no one has to.

And plus, before everyone else catches on, when people bitch about the cost of gas, you can say stuff like, "your car still runs on gasoline? Hmmm, how quaint."

SchwarzCamaroRS

LOL!!!! we could all start runnin that stuff willie nelson makes out of sunflowers... haha