injdinjn

For those who dont read the SEMA newsletter - 2 items.

California Modified Vehicles: California state officials announced the first in a series of $5 million state grants targeting illegal street racing. The grants would pay for training to enable police officers to recognize automobiles that have been illegally modified for street racing; provide funds for officer overtime in connection with joint enforcement operations; and to establish illegal street racing education presentations to high school and college students. Most vehicle modifications are legal under California law. SEMA has been meeting with state and local officials to caution against profiling drivers and targeting accessorized vehicles. The SEMA-sponsored Racers Against Street Racing program is designed to take illegal drag racing off the streets, without unfairly targeting legally modified vehicles or harassing vehicle owners.

California Scrappage: The South Coast Air Quality Management District plans to use remote sensors and video cameras to measure air pollution from 1 million vehicles as they enter freeways and navigate roads in the counties of Los Angeles, Orange, San Bernardino and Riverside. Owners of the dirtiest cars and trucks would receive letters informing them that the government would pay to fix or scrap their vehicles. Eligible motorists whose vehicles are detected can now voluntarily scrap these vehicles and receive $1,000 based on funding increases. The South Coast district estimates that 10,000 to 20,000 of the dirtiest vehicles would be detected. Smog regulators lack the authority to order drivers to dump dirty cars, but they can offer incentives. Smog regulators are expected to give formal approval to the program next month, and enough sensors to scan a million cars. SEMA is working with regulators to mitigate the potential adverse effects to collector cars and parts.

injdinjn

Why can't those common sense challenged govt people use that money to build some tracks instead of harrassing the general public.


Remote sensers, the smog check stations profit should go up considerably with all the new testing they will get to do at our expense. Their test program had poor results in determining the right vehicle so again we are guilty until we spend the time and money to prove our innocence.
$50 smog check, $50 to $100 in lost wages, great.

2_point8_boy

First off...I'm not trying to start a war, this is just my

The Street racing thing is stupid. they are never gonna be able to enforce stuff on vehicles that have CARB approved, legal modifications. I mean, how do you tell if an approved mod is intended for street racing or track racing?

I think the remote sensor system is a great idea. There are a lot of cars that just spew crap into the atmosphere and had BARELY passed their last inspection.

I don't think $50 is too much to spend on making sure that your vehicle is porperly in tune and running properly. If you can't afford $50 over the course of 2 years, then maybe you shouldn't be driving it. Put it in the same catergory as maintaining your car.

I also hardly think that you can say that you'r losing wages over driving down to do it. The DMV send you the notice 60 days in advance, if you can't find 1 hour out of 60 days to take care of it...hmmm.

I do notice that the people who complain about the program are the ones that don't know much about it, just what they have experienced and what doesn't fit their wants.

Now, I'm not saying that everything is exactly fair, like exempting Diesels and not putting stiffer regulations on industry to compliment the vehicle programs, but welcome to life, it's not fair to everyone.

crazyjim

Hrmmm, my daily is a piece of **** and I'm getting ready to get rid of it. I don't think it passes smog, maybe I can get some $ for it

2_point8_boy

As long as it's not modified and it fails emissions, they'll give you $100 for it as long as it can be stripped for parts

JulieGTA

A clean environment is great! I'm not concerned because my car passes smog.
I really, really don't like having my picture taken and reviewed by total strangers. And, the fact that there's a law that will make it happen?

2_point8_boy

They aren't taking pictures of you, it's an infrared image of tailpipe emissions and a picture of your license plate, which is out there in public view anyway.

Russ-So Cal

One of our politicians made a speech at the Queen Mary last week promoting mag-lev for freight trains. He said it takes massive amounts of electricity to make mag lev work, BUT it is worth it because we can move trains with zero polution! Is there anything stupider than a politician?

kick Z tail out

That's not cool for pre-75 vehicles that are smog exempt... I wouldn't be surprised if they decided that some people's 67 Chevelles need to be scrapped.

bluethunder28

iTrader: (1)

Because you can build all the tracks you want and the people will still street race. Why? Because drivers can't drink, smoke pot or bet at a track and race at a drop of the hat.

injdinjn

To enlighten some of you young individuals who have not taken the time to review the whole picture.

Smog
As I have quoted the AQMD before, their web site states that over 70% of our air pollution is diesel and stationary produced. Read this as big trucks, trains and polluting refinerys and power plants (the ones who supply your electricity for your non polluting electric vehicle).
Between 1996 and 2001 the LA & LB harbor doubled is container
traffic and plans on doubling that again between now and 2010. That means the number of trains and trucks in and out of the harbor doubled and will double again.
WHY GO AFTER 1% OF THE CARS WHEN 70% OF THE AIR POLLUTION IS CAUSED BY DIESEL TRUCKS AND TRAINS.
Answer, because the general public is stupid and doesn't have the political power of the trucking and RR industry.

And anyone who thinks they can get a smog test done by only loosing one hour of work needs their watch repaired, or works next to a smog station.

Street racing
Just like drugs and underage drinking there will always be street racing, but the amout can be reduced by providing venues to race at. $5 million a year can support a lot of tracks.

2_point8_boy

I totally agree with you on stricter rules on industry and trucking...see my first post. I've read all the publications too, that's how I knew about that...plus the fact that I myself am a Smog Tech. There's a lot of thing that I don't agree with that the State does when it comes to the program, but there are some things that should be done that will make it better.

You don't have to take off of work to get a smog done, go on a day off. A test takes all of 15 minutes to perform on 90% of vehicles, so even if there are 3 other people ahead of you, you can be in and out in about an hour.

BrandenCali

So pretty much after they install all these sensors, and the program is started.. Your driving down the freeway in a vehicle that is polluting the percentage category of the program where you fail.. There going to send you something in order of a fix it ticket smog deal? Will this fall under smog only station?

Well, Im unsure myself if this program is fully attended for Modifications and Street racing.. And considering smog is not the largest percentage coming from legal modified an illegal modified vehicles..

There is a game plan to this program.. And I don't believe it's fully going to point towards street racing and modified vehicles..

Street Racing is just a name to use for this program.. The Illegal word is always best to point towards when it comes down to a program like this.. Oh ya street racing is a big problem.. Spend the 5 million on this program.. It's going to clean the Air!

But then to review the story again..
The SEMA-sponsored Racers Against Street Racing program.. They agree with the program.. But then to consider the main problem is illegal Street Racing..

injdinjn

And these sensors will be placed on freeway on ramps.
So your(?) , or the car next ot you, exhaust will be read while under acceleration. Static tests are under steady throttle so how will the sensor determine if the vehicle is under part throttle or full throtte. Most every body I know considers freeway on ramps with lights short drag strips as you are put into a position by government idiots to either concede or beat the other lane to the freeway.
And how will the sensor determine if the vehicle is a 1.5liter 4 banger or a 6 liiter V8. It can't.

So the bottom line is, they dont care. If the sensor triggers the camera YOU have to prove that your vehicle is in compliance. How? by taking time off work for an unscheduled $50 smog test.

And the people 2point8boy toils for love it - MORE $$$$$$$$ for them. Of course 2point8boy won't get any of that since he works by the hour.

And lets not forget how they keep lowering the allowable emissions making it harder and harder for older cars to pass.

BrandenCali

Exactly.. The program is a waste of money! They should stay with a 800 number Vs 5 million dollars that are not going to tag there said Street Racing Program.. We the people are required by Law to Smog our vehicles.. No sense on a program that most likely is just a test.. They need a better program because the Air quality is no near where Modified vehicles are causing the poor air quality.. The problem is Unsafe conditions.. For sakes the accident the other day with the train running the same path as vehicles paying registration for that road to maintain safe conditions.. What where's the program for those people? We the people ask for more Tracks in California.. That's a program where it would protect us from these illegal street races.. That in no sense should be racing on public roads..

2_point8_boy

Actually, I also do general stuff, so I'm comission, so I wouldn't quite mind the extra work. lol. Anyway, what it comes down to is enforcment of information that they already have.

When a drivetrain first goes for emissions approval, they vehicle is subjected to WOT emissions testing, cruise testing, and idle tests. The Fed's have standards that cars must meet in order to get US approval and those are what the State would use to test with using the remote sensors. The standards are VERY simialr for ALL vehicles, no matter what engine is in them, be it a 4 banger, 6, 8 or even 10.

Here's the research notes from University of Denver
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/resnotes/notes/94-20.htm

BrandenCali

And let me guess if you don't go an smog they will what put a lien on your vehicle?

Russ-So Cal

Reread the original post. Right now all they will do is send a letter advising the owner that they will pay them $1000.00 to scrap their vehicle. As far as trains, industry, and ships are concerned, industry has a legal loophole that allows them to bribe their way out of compliance. If they buy enough cars to crush, they get credit for cleaning up the air to offset the pollution that they contribute. In addition, a company that is cleaner than required can sell pollution credits to a dirty company. As far as trains are concerned, AQMD is paying a $25 million grant to the Pacific Harbor Lines toward the replacement of their fleet of old diesel locomotives with cleaner new models. As far as the rest of the rail industry is concerned, they are exempt from smog laws. Some of the locomotive manufacturers are making cleaner locomotives, but the railroads don't need to buy them. When it comes to ships, America's policies have pretty much put all American shipping companies out of business. We are lucky to require safety issues to be met before a foriegn ship ties up to an American dock. We have no jurisdiction over how much they pollute, and you can bet the real sea going merchat powers such as Moravia, Panama, Greece, and Lybia don't care as long as they get their licensing fees (read bribes).

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

Hey ,i bought a 84 firebird for 100$.So will the govt buy it off me for 1000$

BrandenCali

Ah my bad.. I was totally lost.. 2 separate items.. I thought the intent was to try and use the sensor program for the Street Racing problem..

That was a lot of good interesting information Russ..
The crash I was talking about was the one where the tracks share several hundreds of feet with Cars.. Very sad thing to see.. Something should have been done about that a long time ago.. It's just not right.. Our Country is better than that..

JulieGTA

How would they be able to tell it was your car on the ramp making the smog? What if you drive thru a big cloud of smoke left by the vehicle ahead of you? What if it was a windy day...

Can an infrared image tell whether the stuff coming out of your car's exhaust is emissions or water vapor?

If you recieved a violation in the mail, could you prove that the data was not tampered with, and would it matter?
(yes, I'm still mad about my ticket! so!)

RWB____s

Camera's You know like the ones your familiar with at the intersections.

crazyjim

So who would I call to get my car scrapped hahaha... this thing has caused me so much grief, I wouldn't want any body else to own it either. *shudder*

2_point8_boy

They would aim the camera from a higher spot dowm and focus it cleanly within the confines of a single lane. This would ensure taht they are seeing only a small peice of area that your car has to pas through in order to enter the freeway. For instance, they would have 2 cameras on a 2 lane onramp, one for each lane, and it would be pointed down at such an angle that by the time your car passes though it's line of sight, the displaced air from your car would clear out anything worht seeing from a previous car, and then the image would be taken and the highest area(s) of concentration would be considered.

Every gas has it's own infrared signiture, so it can tell the difference between the gasses that exit a vehicle's tailpipe.

JulieGTA

Cool!
But it still doesn't seem right to me.

injdinjn

Every person has their own DNA, but you dont know who it is until you do comparison tests. And I really dont see the AQMD doing those kind of chemical analysis' of tailpipe emissions.

Sorry, but what you say the State should do verses what they will do are two different things. And bet your money on the fact that they will make it cheaper on them and put the cost of proof on the individual motorist.

This is strictly a political move. If they really wanted to clean up the air they wouldn't worry about 0.5% of the vehicles. They would go after the real culprits. But if they cleaned up the air they would no longer be eligable for Federal grants for more busses, light rail and other mass transit programs. So they keep coming up with these dumb ideas to look good to the Feds and keep that Federal money coming in, screw the public and, due to political contributions, ignore the real culprits.

sixtyV6

Note to self: Time to start using freeway onramps that are downhill only or ones that can be used uphill carrying lots of momentum ontop them with the car out of gear

Guest

My friends dad was involved with the group that developed the infared smog sensors. The use the state has planned was not the intended purpose. They were designed for single pass and controlled environment for emissions testing for a vehicle manufacturer. They wanted to test emissions under actual load and drive conditions, without outfitting the vehicle with a bunch of test equipment. I looked into this years back and some PHd at some university claimed rights to it, but he's full of it. I knew about the device before that guy says he invented it.

Anyway, its just another misuse of technology. My friends dad already had talked to people at the state about it (they were VERY interested) and told them its issues with what their intentions were, and that he said it would not be a good idea to use it for roadside testing. Well you already know whats happening. You cant argue with a politician headed for brownie points.

bluethunder28

iTrader: (1)

They had these before and they are still trying to work out the bugs. It seems like the fumes linger a bit and the next car can run thru it and be caught.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I could say "As long as your car is clean what do you have to worry about?" but then again I see it as just another one of our rights and freedoms being slowly taken away... I'm really surprised they let us modify our cars at all.

langss

Having just purchased a new-to-me 92 Camaro to replace my recently destroyed 86 TA. I had the pleasure of taking it for a Smog Check. From the time I called to make sure the place was open to the time I drove out of the shop was right at an hour and 45 minutes. Fifteen minutes of that was travel time so I'm not counting it. The actual test was a half hour. The Gas Cap alone was 5 minutes. The two people ahead of me each took a half hour. I know all this because I had a Locksmith waiting for me to get to his shop. The point is nothing is impossable to the person that does not have to do it. A Smog Check to you is no big deal because you are there and you deal with it every day. I'm sure you can bang one out in 15 minutes no problem. But I dont think thats close to the "Average" because last year I took my 2000 SS for its first check and it took way more than 15 minutes and at the time the car still didnt have a thousand miles on it yet. I have an 84 Camaro that I'll be taking in before the end of the year. I'll bet thats going to take just as long if not longer,and it has less than 12000 miles on it.

crazyjim

Thank *** someone else see's what's going on in the world. Past history has taught us that someone changing everything at once gets booted, and it's communistic. But in our country they take it slowly, BUT SURELY, and we just lay over for it.

2_point8_boy

Driving has never been a right or freedom, it's a privlege. If you can find driving anywhere in the constitution, then it'll be a right, but until then, there are laws that make it something that you allowed to do with permission from the state. If it were a right, then they wouldn't have to test you on your ability to do so, give you a license that says you have permission to do it, or be able to take it away when you are otherwise unable to drive.

Everytime something smog related comes up, someone makes it about "losing your rights." I'm a very un-political person and I think it's funny how people complain about things like this, but never do anything about it.

Here's what I suggest. Since there is such an overwhelming population, just on this site, against smog checks and other limits on driving/modifying our vehicles, then we should all get together and refuse to get smog checks. Then when they refuse to register your vehicle, get everyone together and file a lawsuit against the state, stating that they are infringing on your rights by requiring you to pass smog.

What I'm saying is that, sure, it's easy to complain about it, but no body wants to take the time out of their day to actually do something about it, or understand what's really going on. Everyone in this state has to get their post '75 vehicle inspected every 2 years, don't tell me that's not enough of an economic pull to get something done if people really cared about it like they say they do. An estimated population of 35 million people can't be ignored.

Now, it seems that I am the only one that is kind of "pro" on this subject, you guys need to understand that I don't always agree with how this stuff is implemented. A lot of stuff that the state does is crap when it comes to this program. For example, unable to go to true-dual exhaust with dual cats. It makes no difference in emissions. For the most part, it doesn't even really make emissions go down anymore. There are a lot of things that would work if they were implemented correctly, but most people don't thin it should be revamped, but that it should be completly removed.

Again, I'm not trying to get into a bitch-fest, but that's my opinion on the subject.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so "rights and freedoms" wasnt the best choice of words to use, but I hope it was understood what my point was...

If it was up to some people, we'd all be walking to work and play.

Randy82WS7

all the nice old vehicles out there and alot that get wasted

its too bad

all the crazy laws and restrictions

insane..

i wont ever go to cali

forget that

seeing stuff liek this going on makes you jusrt wanna ask yourself why you evne stil mess with vehicles anymore

makes me feel like giving up totally just by imagining all the vehicles that get wasted due to crap like this

its crazy,,

good luck

injdinjn

Just finished reading Hot Rods Street legal drag fest.

I bet none of the top ten cars could get thru Tustin without a long talk, and invitation to contest or pay, with the local tax collectors.

Guest

You could sit here and wave the clean air banner all day long and tout its accomplishments or argue other stupid points like rights and priveledges, but the fact remains that the laws are made by politicians and not the people that actually have the knowledge on the subject. I've had enough return correspondence from the EPA and SCAQMD to know that even they know this. Thats partly the reason I strayed from environmental engineering in school and stuck with structural, when you are an environmental engineer your conclusions mean exactly nothing no matter how good they are, you dont make the laws and never will. That priveledge falls on those who know nothing about it.

There are many things we can do to clean the air and the reason people get mad about the stupid things going on is because none of what they are implementing or proposing can make any significant difference. The things that would make a significant difference are totally ignored... and therefore the pollution level will remain basically the same as it does today no matter how many stupid laws they pass that frustrate anyone with a little common sense.

cali92RS

Fine with me.
We know how to form sentences and paragraphs in this state.

BretD 88GTA

Just as an FYI, as far as getting industry to comply, good luck. The Bush admin. did away with imposing fines on factories that pollute. They now offer "incentives" to companies instead.

If a company complies, it gets a tax break. If it doesn't, no big deal.

It's far easier and cheaper to make the general public comply. You either comply with the rules or loose the priviledge of driving your car. Pretty easy.

I don't see why they can't offer us "smog incentives" on our cars. If your car meets the standards, you get a discounted registration fee. If you don't, you pay the higher reg. fee.

BrandenCali

I never cared for the program from the start.. Even with a lil misunderstanding.. They say 10k 20,000 cars will be detected.. 5 million.. It just seems like a program that can basically get those number of cars off the street and offer the people money but. Who wants to keep paying for this in the future.. Get the plan for everything and then let's talk.. All this for some junk cars..

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

i passed smog finally with the white CFI

now time to do the blue car and the v6