Ok, since I have a busted shock and my springs are sagging, I've decided to put my engine plans on hold and do suspension before. So far what I've decided on is this....

KYB gas-a-just shocks
KYB GR2 struts
Eibach pro kit
new GM spring isolators (anyone know the pn#?)

and

I have a set of spohn sfcs waiting to be installed

I'm debating whether or not to get a polyurethane bushing kit while I'm at it, as well as if it would be worth the money to upgrade the sway bars. I have the F41 suspension package now, so I believe I have the 34 mm swaybar, which from my understanding is decent.

Anyone have any comments or ideas on things I should upgrade while I have the car apart?

 

Don't know how many miles are on your ride, but... if the springs are out, you may consider replacing the a-arm bushings. If that option is chosen, I would also plan to replace the ball joints. P-S-T has a kit of that.

Once I got started on mine, I just kept going until everything was replaced (bushings, ball joints all steering linkage springs, struts etc.) Fortunately I have a second vehicle, so down time was not an issue.

I bought Hellwig sways for my car (via Summit Racing). Their sway mounting hardware (included) puts a lot of their competitors to shame (particuarly PST). Very solid and reasonable price. Be sure to note if your front bushing mounts have in-line or offset holes.

I also used the oppourtunity to put on a homemade "wonder-bar".

Really all depends on the condition of the car and your future plans.

Best-
S-D

The photo shows the new sway bar clearly. I didn't know it at the time, but I had the sway bar on upside down! D'oh! Long story.

 

I dont know what kinda budget you're on but KYB is good (from what Ive been told) BUT Bilstein/Koni is better. I too am in the mist of a suspension rebuild. As for the isolators...search through the posts. I think Dutchbird is in the mist of getting isolators. One thing that swerve-driver didnt mention is changing out the motor mounts. When the coil springs are out the motor mounts will be easier to change. If you opt for poly motor mounts just know that they will raise your motor up. Poly mounts are stronger so with the weight of the engine ON the mounts the motor doesnt drop down as much. So if you have/plan on having a strut tower brace installed poly motor mounts could "limit" you from putting one on WITHOUT modification. Hopefully my suspension "surgery" will be going underway in the next couple weeks. Stay tuned for progress and of course...pictures!

Later..

 

I recently did a rebuild on my 60K mile Iroc. My list of parts include:

Eibach Pro-Kit
New GM front spring isolators, reused the rear isolators for correct ride height
KYB: GR2 struts/ Gas a Just rears
Moog susp. parts: center link, tie rods, ball joints
Energy Suspension bushings:motor mounts, tie rods, ball joints, A-arm bushings, tranny mount and torque arm, end links and sway bars
BMR: LCAs and panhard rod

Definitely do the motor mounts while it's apart, and they aren't that expensive. Yes, the 34mm bar is good to have. About the only thing better is the 36 mm if you can get one.

Click on the link in my sig for pics of it all.

HTH...Ed

 

EB, to do the motor mounts - don't you need an engine lift to raise it up a little?..or did you jack it up fron under the car somehow?

 

Swerve: Did you coat the insides of your wheelwells...they look amazingly clean and black. I'd be interested in hearing what you did?

Thanks,
- Joel

 

Yes-
I see you are from Palos Hill (or Heights?), IL. I am north of Chicago. Regardless, you are familiar with the salt (particularly bad this winter, isn't it!).

The first thing I did when I bought the car was to slam it with undercoating everywhere and this is the reason the car is still in good shape. I had to drive it for 3 winters.

I recently re-painted and restored the car and one of the things I did was undercoat the wheel wells again with a product called "Rust-Fre" or something similar. I will 2x check when I get home tonite.

Best-
S-D

 

Yeah I'm a south sider....salt sucks huh? While my car's been on jack stands for the past couple years for a new rear, Baer brakes, new suspension, engine etc...I spent months sanding the entire undercarriage of the car and coating it all with POR 15. I didn't do anything with the wheelwells, but seeing your picture makes me want to. Did you strip them down to bare metal first and then coat them? Is there a certain process like with POR 15?

Thanks,
- Joel

 

I had included a bit on the motor mounts in my original message, but deleted it at the last minute- felt like the post was getting kind of long..... you are right, though- it is an important point.

I learned (hindsight) that removing and replacing motor mount bolts is a complete bee-otch if the a-arms are on. I wound up using a product called nut-serts to install the mounts. It is basically a big steel rivet that is threaded on the inside. I was fortunate enough to be able to find the ones I needed (10mm x1.5, I think).

I drilled out the holes in the frame a bit, tapped them in and then expanded them. They feel solid as hell and I do not anticipate a problem unless something weird happens (like the bolt holes in the frame crack and break out. The only reason I think of this is because the washers on the bottom of two of the motor mounts bolts are huge (2" in diameter or so). Must be taht way for a reason. But other than that I think they will do fine.

I promise to post if they come loose or fail- wouldn't want anyone to take my advice and then have a failure.

Will post a pic of the setup when I get home.

Best luck on your upgrades-
S-D

 

Steve, yeah, I had to jack it up a bit. The trick is to do them one side at a time. It's a cinch to do while the A-arms and springs are out. Loosen up the motor mount bolt and take the nut off. Then put a jack under the balancer. Jack it up ever so slowly until you can get the bolt out. Then loosen the 3 nuts/bolts that hold the mount shells to the K-member, and SLOWLY jack the motor up until you can pull the mount out. Replace the bushing and reinstall. Same for the other side.

Check the engine frequently as you jack the thing up so you don't break the distributer cap against the firewall.

Ed

 

Loosen one side and jack the motor while the other mount is still fully tightened and untouched? Is this right?

 

No stripping was needed. This stuff is more like liquid tar than anything else. If it gets near anything, it is gonna stick to it.

There are a few different kinds of undercoatings, the ones that are the most effective are the smelly, sticky ones that smell and look like they have a lot of oil in them. They are the most effective ones I've found, not the most pleasant to work with!
The first time I undercoated my car, it dripped for over 3 days.

I've used a couple different brands (my laptop just crapped out so won't be able to post brand names until tomorrow) each with their own characteristics.

They are all industrial use only- pretty nasty stuff, but like I said, very effective over the long run. Since the camaro was my only vehicle for a while, I wanted to preserve it and this stuff didn;t let me down.

Will post brands and general characterisitics tomorrow-
S-D

How does the POR-15 work? I've never dealt with it.

 

The stuff is awesome. All of my suspension on my Iroc is coated with the stuff.

Yes.

Ed

 

Thanks EB, you're always a great help!

 

Hey Swerve:
That stuff sounds pretty damn good. I heard about POR 15 from a friend about 3 or 4 years ago. Check out their website POR 15 They show a step-by-step procedure. What I liked most about it is that it prevents rust. First you strip to the bare metal, spray "Metal Ready" on the metal which etches the metal and I think it adds a zinc coating for a better adhesion. Then you brush (or spray) on the POR 15 and it seals the metal...the bond is so good...even if your coating over rust it prevents the rust from ever spreading. Then you can leave it like that or coat it with "chassis coat black" which is what I did because the POR 15 itself will discolor a bit from UV rays.

- Joel

 

I remembered the name of the undercoating-
It is called Rubberized Undercoating and is made by a company named "Kent".

EB-
Does the POR-15 require much cleaning before application? Is it more like a paint than an undercoating?
Pls disregard- Z-Mans post just came up!


After reading- the POR sounds pretty good. I just wish we didn't have to muck around with any of this stuff. But, the salt + water + time = rust-ola, so muck we must.

thanks,
S-D

 

Talking from first hand experience??? =) Seriously though you really can crack the cap?? I never knew that. Also I thought the best way to do mounts was support the motor.. undo the mounts..take the mounts out..put new mounts in ect ect.

Later..

Dan

 

No experience with that here. I just heard it through the grapevine. If you go crazy and jack it way up, you "may" hit the little lip in the wall right above the cap. I had about an inch to go.

I just did them one at a time and it was easy. You do have to jack it up more once you get the bolt loose to get the mount and shell assembly out.

Ed

 

Pic of the nutserts installed.

 

The vertical grooves keep the nutsert from ever turning in the hold. The crushed shoulder keeps it from moving up or down.

 

What is the point of the item above?
If I decide to do the motor mounts, is it possible to do without removing the a-arms?
How hard is it to remove the a-arms anyways? I had to cut my rear LCA's off cause the bolts had seized in the bushing and I really don't want to go through that again...

 

The point of the item above is simple:

It takes a long time to re-install the motor mounts using the stock nut, bolt and washer setup, unless the a-arms are off. Even then it takes some doing.

It takes much, much less time to remove/replace motor mounts when using the nut serts which are shown installed in the first picture. The second picture merely shows how the nut sert works.

It is possible to replace the motor mounts without removing the a-arms, but it is difficult. More difficult for some than others, but difficult. period.

Nut serts are only an option if the engine is out and the a-arms are on. That is my status right now and that is why I used them.

Removal of the a-arms take work, just like anything else. Like you, I had to physically destroy my trailing arms to get them off. The a-arms were not that tough, but were no picinic either. If you are replacing the springs and bushings, take them off. While they are off you will have an easier time replacing your motor mounts using the stock fasteners. That will require jacking the motor up per EB's earlier posts.

I rebuilt my entire front end before I pulled my motor. After I found out how tough it was to get the mounts off with the a-arms on, I wished that I had had replaced the mounts while the a-arms were off. It didn't work out that way, so I went with the nut-serts.
S-D

 

WOW! I havent' seen Nutserts for a while. Great idea! Those would work great! I just question how much torque you can put on them.

Ed

 

EB-
I just recieved a fax from the nut sert supplier concerning nut-sert test data and specs.

Torque out is listed at 58.8 N-m or about 40 ft-lbs. However, a footnote at the bottom of the page mentions that this info was supplied by the manufacturer of the bolts. The bolts that were used are metric 8.8 class- the equivalent of grade 5. I imagine the bolts used for mounting the mounts are the harder ones -10.9 class.

So they should be able to take a bit more. At any rate, I torqued mine to 50 ft.lbs and they felt solid.

The force required to pull the nutsert out once it is installed is 20 kN or 20*1000 =20,000 N which is ~4496 lbs. per nutsert.

I believe these will do the job, but like I said in an earlier post, I will post if they fail- don't want to cause anyone trouble.

It sure as hell did make putting the mounts in alot easier, though.

Best-
S-D

 

I recently had a chance to check out the nut-serts that I used to bolt my engine mounts to the K member. They have been in there for the full summer now and just wanted to let you guys know that they are holding up well as there was some concern (on my part and others) as to their durability.

This car is a manual with a vortec 350 (TBI) and has seen its share of stomping this summer. The nut-serts are holding up well.

The major benefit of the nut-serts should be obvious to anyone that has gone through the work of replacing motor mounts with the a-arms still in.

Pictures just above this post show the nut-sert idea and mounted in the K-member.

Thanks,
S-D

 

Basically you clean off the scaley rust and clean it and then use their rust neutralizer and apply the por. It is humidity activated so the more humid it is, the better it works. But don't get it on your hands, id don't come off. Por actually recommends you put it on over rust, well not heavy scaley rust, but they say it bonds better but can use it on bare metal too. This stuff is kick a** and I am gonna do my whole underside with it when I restore my maro.

 

POR 15 is some great stuff, my uncle and a friend of his sell it at the local shows. it literally bonds to rust. its actually moisture curing, so when you put it on it draws the moisture out of the rust and seals it all at the same time, stopping it right where it is.