Ok, I picked out all this stuff for my suspension upgrade, since I got a new rearend (bw 9 bolt w/ 3.27's) and I'm getting all Baer all around...so, let me know what you think (or, if I don't need some things, or I need to add some things. Stuff like that...)

SPOHN PARTS
Adjustable Torque Arm - 700R4/T-5 Trans.
Torque Arm Rear Mounting Hardware Kit
Lower Control Arms - Tubular with Poly Bushings
Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets
LCA Mounting Hardware Kit
Upper Strut Mount Package
Eibach Pro - Performance Lowering Springs
Panhard Bar - Adjustable Spherical/Poly Combo

PST PARTS
Polygraphite Front End Kits
High Performance Sway Bar Kit
Center link
KYB GR-2 Gas Struts
KYB Gas-A-Just Shocks

Thanks for the help guys!!

 

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, this is basically going to be a street car. I just want a nice ride, no wheel hop, and that can handle lots of power once I get to my engine swap/mods...I heard Polygraphite is preferred over Polyurethane...So, if I'm going overkill, please let me know. If I can use stock parts, and just swap out bushings, etc...info would help a lot.

Thanks again!

 

C'mon, some of you guys gotta know about suspension stuff!!

 

i would suggest poly/sherical combo LCA's. you will be much happier with them. also, i am not a fan of the PST front end kit.

check out this thread for info on front end rebuilds.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=197895

i am also not a fan of the KYB shock stuff, in my mind, if you are going to spend the money for upgrading all of that, don't skimp where it counts. spend the money and get good shocks/struts

 

whats the question??

 

MrDude: I was asking if all that stuff I listed were good choices for suspension upgrades.

Dewey: As far as PST, I thought Polygraphite was better than the others? I havn't read the post yet, but am will right now. And for shocks/struts...what do you think of the Koni special Reds?

 

as for polygraphite vs polyurothane, i dunno, i have yet to see any real proof that one is better than the other, the only advantage i see to polygraphite is that as i understand it, you don't need to lube it all.

and koni makes a great product, lots of people here have had alot of success with the yellows in the auto-x/hillclimb cars, they are a pretty firm ride though.

 

Should I get a Front End kit from Spohn then? Also, I'm not doing any Auto-x/Rock Climbing...lol...just a somewhat daily driver/cruiser. How stiff of a ride are they? Any other recommendations? I don't want to be so stiff that it bounces all over...I want SOME cushion at least, but still the "performance" edge of a stiffer suspension (if that's possible)

 

the bounching thing is really a misconseption, with GOOD struts/shocks, although frim, your ride is well, firm. you aren't bounching all over, instead your suspension is working like it should.

did you read the thread? price everything out, compare it to the spohn kit, figure out which route you like better. also many of the parts listed there are nicer than the moog pieces. what kit you go with is up to you, you need to determine that line you want between price and quality. that link is the the 'kit' i peiced together to get what i wanted for a front end rebuild, not everyone wants to spend $30+ per ball joint, but for me the quality of it outweighted its cost.

 

Yes, I read the thread. Well, I don't want to spend $1800+ as well on the suspension. All I really notice now is that I need new springs in the back (probably as well in the front) and new shocks (might as well get struts too)...My steering seems fine. I was piecing together things to see what it would cost. Well, just w/ what I had picked, it was around $1700. Now, what would be the MAJOR things to get that would be a big difference? I know the Torque Arm and LCA's would be a big benefit for traction. As it stands now, I DO get big wheel hop on take off. I don't necessarily NEED the front end stuff (sway bars, balljoints, etc.) as mine seem OK. Just want to know what is a must, that would give the most benefit.

Thanks!

 

the parts you pick really depend on the use of the car, if you are only concerned about hooking up off the line, and don't care about handling, the setup will be diffrent. if you want an all around performer (won't be great and anything but good at everything) you will go with a diffrent setup. if you wan tthe best handling you can get, a third setup. i am not sure what you are asking... if you have a budget and want to know how to spend it, post you budget, and tell us your goals, we will point you in the right direction. you initial quesiton was about parts selection, so i thought i would point out some parts that i thought would be an improvement over the list you posted.

 

Yes, you did point me in the right direction w/ the LCA's, and also w/ the shocks/struts. Well, I can really spend any price I want, I just want to keep it limited. Basically, the main goal of the car will be the BEST traction I could get. As far as handling, I think stock seems good (except for body roll). So, a setup w/ superb traction and great handling would be great to have.
This car is essentially a cruiser. Also, the occassional road races, etc. Nothing too fancy. It would rarely see the track (if at all). So, what would your recommendations be in THAT respect?
Oh yeah, one more thing, Autozone has Bilstein Sport Ride shocks for like $89. What makes the Koni's almost $600 for the set? I probably wouldn't be doing so much "adjusting", so, if it's just for that, is there an alternate product w/ same performance/cheaper price?

 

koni's are not $600 for just the shocks you can get all 4 corners for less than $600 if you do you shopping around, the bulk of the price is in the front sturts, price those with bilsteins.

 

Well I have to say that it all looks pretty good except the spherical stuff. If you are looking "a nice ride" for the street, only go as far as poly bushings. They are plenty for a street car. I use my car for auto-x and street performance, and the poly's do fine. Don't get me wrong, the spherical rod ends would be better, but I drive my car daily on the street too. You said that you won't do any auto-x or any thing like that, so my advice, from experience with all types of bushings in all types of cars, is go with poly (graphite or urathane) bushings everywhere. I agree with Dewy316 on the PST kit, I was extremely turned off by their products and their service. I'd just go into NAPA and buy all of the parts there. They stock all kinds of performance parts, and can get you just about anything that you can get through Summit as well. My set-up is:

FRONT
Energy Suspension Polyurathane bushings (sway bar and a-arms)
NAPA (I think they are built by Moog) super heavy duty ball joints, tie-rod ends, center link, idler arm and coil springs. <-- those were a chore to get in!!
Bell-tech 2" lowering spindles
Edelbrock strut tower brace
as soon as they ship, a TDS wonder bar

REAR
Hotchkis poly/poly fixed length control arms
Spohn poly/poly adjustable panhard rod
Spohn control arm relocation kit
Cut NAPA super heavy duty springs
and soon a Spohn adjustable torque arm

My car also has South Side Machine sub frames in it, and maybe one day soon (if all goes right) a 6-point Roll-bar.

With all that, my car hooks up and handles great. The ride, however is a bit, well...positive and connected to the road and all it's imperfections. As for your shock/strut choice, for the street they are great, not so much on the track. I have the GR-2's on all 4 corners and am pretty happy with them over all (pretty nice ride), but am replacing them with KYP or Koni adjustables. The one thing not to forget is sub-frame connectors. If you leave them out, any suspension upgrade you do will suffer as a result. The more grip you give your car the mor it will want to flex and twist. Do NOT even think about a strut tower bar until you have subframes in there, it will do little, if anything, without SFC's.
Just for reference, I have roughly $1000 give or take a few bucks invested total in the suspension. To answer the question about what first, and foremost, ANYTHING that is worn out. More than likely the steering parts nedd replaced and the ball joints are probably ready too. Then just do things as they come up. Get things in new condition, and see where you are at. If you need rear control arm bushings, buy the control arms you want. If you don't really plan to race your car (auto-x or actual road racing) stay away from adjustable parts, you don't need them. The exception to that is the panhard bar (if you lower the car at all) and the torque arm. That is my 2 cents. keep in mind, I don't know everything, but I have spent alot of money on mistake parts, and then had to re-spend money to get out of those mistakes. One last thing, when you have the car aligned, make sure you have it done to the performance specs listed in the tech (or maybe it's in the FAQ) section on this site. Not just for the added performance, but it actuall is better for tire wear etc...

 

http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1345

I was going by that.

Anyway, could you provide me w/ a list that you would think would be adequate for what the use of the car will be?

 

As I am just starting to get into my suspension. I will offer that I just got the KYB-GY2 shocks/struts, and they are STIFF. It is quite rough for a daily driver, and only other thing changed so far is swaybars and bushings for them.

If you want nice ride, I dont think KYB is way to go.

 

Thanks GTA! Only thing w/ the SFC's, is that I don't have access to a lift...and/or welder to put them in...and knowing my dad, he'd say I'm nuts for doing THAT...lol...So, w/ all these suspension upgrades, and holding off on SFC's, what would be the outcome? Still no traction, etc.?

 

GTA: My balljoints and steering parts seem fine. I keep 'em greased, etc...Like I said, only thing I notice is the springs, and shocks/struts. I really want it to hook. I guess that's the main goal. To get the traction, Torque Arm, LCA's, Panhard, Springs, Schocks/Struts, and I'm good to go? From what you said w/ the SFC's, it's like, if I do all that, I still won't benefit from it. I'm not sure.

 

You'd get some improvement definetly, but not the full benefit, and if you think about what is going on, it could cause other problems. These cars are very flexible, even more so with t-tops, and if the front end suddenly has more grip, the car will flex that much more. The same thing in the rear, if you look right behind the windows on pretty much any V-8 car, there will be a hairline crack in the metal (now you see why they didn't like to put the 350 in t-top cars), that is from chassis flex, and mostly from launches. You dont need access to a welder or a lift. Take your car to an exhaust shop and have them install them. The SSM ones are pretty cheap, and strong. Any subframe connector could (they all say they won't, but they could) cause a little issue with the exhust anyway, so if they install them, they can solve the little issues all at the same time. Mine slid right in with no problems, until I got my cut-out, so now I've got a little work to do down there. Whether your dad thinks you are crazy or not is his deal, just tell him that it is the right thing to do and do it. I have found that a lot of dads, mine included, don't really understand that if the car is flexing like crazy, not only is it going to twist to pieces, but it is just eating up the power that you have. The more power you can get to the pavement, the better.

 

Sounds like a good idea then...which brings up my other concern...I HATE leaving my car to anyone...or, have someone else do work on it. I'm very paranoid w/ guys doing stuff to it, or even leaving it in a parking lot. But that's another issue, lol

So, would the things I listed give me good traction to the ground then WITH the SFC's in there too?

I'm planning on putting in a TPI 350 from sdpc, or a ZZ4, and I want as less drivetrain power loss to the rear wheels as possible.

 

http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1309

How about those SFC's?

It wouldn't get in the way of anything, right? It says it connects to the transmission crossmember w/ a "Y". Now, I have a 3.1 6 now, and if/when I do my 350 swap, I know I'll need another 700R4 (which, I'm guessing uses the same Crossmember), so it wouldn't be a problem? Or, am I looking at it wrong? I can still remove the crossmember if I needed to, the "Y" just connects to where the member mounts, correct?

 

Like I said before, it sounds like a good parts list, but stay away from spherical ends for the street. Spohns subframes are cool as hell and tough, and you can definetly drop the tranny cross member and all that stuff, see the as installed pics on that same page. ANYTHING that Steve Spohn makes is awesome, but for what you are indending to do with your car, it may be overkill. Make sure you look around and compare different parts. Like I said, I'm running the South Side SFC's, and I love them, and they were very cheap (like $140).
For your subframes, my suggestion is take your car to a reputable shop, not Mineke, Midas or a sh!thole like that, but a good exhaust shop. They are out there and they are usually a "custom exhaust" shop or something like that. Call around, get a few prices and make an educated chioce, it's ok to pay a little more and get quality, than to take the cheapest quote and get a hack job. Subframe connectors are a "better get it right the first time" kind of thing. The most important thing to remember is to start with the worn out parts and go from there. We all will tell you that you need all of this and that, when simply rebuilding the suspension could get your car right where you want it to be. Don't go further than YOU want, just because we have all this other crap on our cars. There is no one right way to do things (except mine ). Just kidding.

 

lol, thanks a lot man. Seems like I've been pushed in the right direction. Also, what is your take on Eibach lowering springs? The one at Spohn is like a 1.25" all around lowering kit. I heard it screws up everything when you lower your car. Pinion Angle, etc. etc...I know I could correct the angle w/ the Adjustable Torque Arm...but what else should I keep in mind when doing this? I want to get some 17x9.5's rims, and also some wide tires (although not coming out of the fender wells)...I don't wan it to rub, etc. etc...Or, should I just go w/ Moog Stock Replacements and be done w/ it?

 

Eibach springs are great, actually the best as far as I'm concerned. Just stay the hell away from Drop Zone springs, they suck. With the 1.25" drop springs, you'll actually get between 1.00" & 1.50" of drop which is great. You had said that you were looking at going with Baer brakes on your car. when you do that, for $50 more (or maybe it's $150) you can have them build the system on a set of Belltech spindles. When you lower a car with springs it does change the suspension geometry, which is correctable but it is harder. I got lucky and found my spindles on Ebay for cheap about 2 years ago. The springs that I have in my car would probably raise your car by about 0.50" which would be bad. That is why I used them, I figured that the height was ok as low as it sat with the OEM WS6 springs in it (only about 1.5 fingers from the tire to the fender lip), but if it raised it a little I wouldn't be too upset. It went up to a little over 2 fingers and it doesn't rub on bumps anymore, it does still rub a little in reverse at full steering lock. If you don't want rub, don't lower your car or put 17's on it. That by the way was a joke, the 275/40/17 (on a 17X9 or 9.5) will rub a little, but it's nothing to worry about. Attached is a pic of a 17x9.5 with 27540ZR17 on my brothers car, which is about 0.5" lower than mine and he has very little rub issues.

 

What would be the advantage of having the lowered springs? I could get the dropped spindles up front, and the regular 12" rotor kit out back...but, wouldn't it be wise to say if I stuck w/ stock springs (moog from spohn), then I wouldn't have to mess w/ anything else? I want to get Cragar SS rims...17x9...and not sure on what size rubber to put on there that would be the widest, but not exceed the fender wells...but anyway, I really don't want any rubbing at all. I would guess that it would be more of an issue w/ a lowered car. Is it really worth getting 1.25" drop, and then getting dropped spindles, etc?

 

The dropped spindles are VERY hard to find anymore since Belltech doesn't make them any more. If you like the way the car looks at stock height, leave it. Personally, I think 17 + stock height = not good. Also, lowering a car improves handling by lowering the center of gravity. If the spindles are no longer available, the easiest way to lower the car is with lowering springs. You could also cut the stockers, or heat 'em up, but those are less than easy, and if you do too much (it's a very fine line) the car will be sitting on the bump stops.
A little tip on your rear brakes, don't buy them from Baer. The Baer kit is awesome, but it is basically EXACTLY the same as every stock rear disc set-up 89-92. Find a 89 or newer rear disc diff, and be done. The 12" rear kint is like $795, a complete rear axle with a decent gear and posi will only set you back about $450 tops. About the only tire size in 17" that will not rub ever, is a 235/45(?)17, not near wide enough for grip. 275's only rub a little at full lock. You will NEVER go to full lock at speed (if you do a rubbing tire is the least of your concern) so the only time that they'll rub will be backing/pulling out of parking spots and the like, mostly slow tight maneuvering. If you ask me, any drop is worth it, the cars looks so much better, and the handling improves as well.

 

Thanks for the info on the wheels...sounds like 275/45/17 would be the right rubber for just about any 17, correct? As far as your suggestion for the rear brakes, I already BOUGHT a rear differential...b/w 9 bolt posi w/ 3.27 gears. It was from an 87. So, I don't want to scrap it, b/c it has much potential from what I've read/heard. Any other suggestions on what "kit" to get for the rear? I kind of want to keep the same brakes all around...I was going to go w/ the Baer Front and Back kits from Thunder Racing. I know it's pricey, but seems the easiest. I know I could go w/ LS1 Brakes...but then I'd have to modify my own brackets, etc...w/ the kit, you get EVERYTHING. Maybe there is a better kit for the money??

 

Sorry I didn't realize that you bought the diff already. That still isn't a problem. All you need to do is source the caliper brackets, calipers, rotors and e-brake cables from an 89 or newer. That will save you some serious bucks (that is exactly what I did). The Baerkit is awesome, but a little advice on it. Spend the extra $100 and get the Track kit with the 13 inch rotors for the front. My brother has this kit (it replaced his 12" kit) and believe me, it is so worth it. Day to day stops are so much better, and those hard stops are effortless. By the way, did you check pricing through Baer directly? If I recall, they were a little bit cheaper than Thunder.

Sorry I forgot about the tire question. As long as you are running a 9 inch rim, a 275 is perfect. If you decide to go with a narrower rim, consider a 245 or 255. If it were my choice, I'd run a 17x9 or 17X9.5 front & rear with 275/40/17 all around.

 

Again, thanks a lot for the info GTA. One more thing about the rims, the 17x9's are the only ones that come w/ the right bolt pattern on the SS'...they have a 6" backspace...would that change anything w/ tires sizes/etc.? Would they stick out of the wells?

Also, the rear baer kit from Thunder was like $795...not sure what it is right from Baer...what type of price difference are we looking at from going w/ a stock setup from an 89+? That backing plate, do you have to weld that on the axle, or does it bolt on somehow? I havn't checked the yards around here lately, so, I don't know who'd have the equipment. Possibly Autozone? I'll go w/ the tip and get the 13" rotors...Would that setup clear the Cragar's effortlessly?

 

I can't rember for sure, but I think the MAX you can run on the front of a 82-92 is 5", and that is so close and the most on the rear is like 5.75". So if the best you can get is 6", you are going to need spacers from Vette Brakes or Skulte. Skulte's web site www.skulte.com has all the info you need about spacers. They shouldn't stick out, but they might just a little, which is not a bad thing.

Well, it shouldn't set you back even 200 bucks and it is exactly the same as Baer's rear Sport kit (12" rotors).

The caliper bracket (as long as we are talking 9-bolt to 9-bolt) just un-bolts. Any yard that has 3rd gens, might have the part. Also check Ebay and the net for online salvage yards. You can use www.car-part.com to find parts in salvage yards (maybe even a local one). Just look up rear axle assembly, and get a list of the yards that have those, and give a call or e-mail and ask for the parts you need. Autozone is probably only going to be a help for brake pads or calipers.

As long as they are 17's they should. Baer has templates on their web site to download and measure so you know for sure.

 

Thanks for the info man. That sucks that I'm going to have to get spacers w/ those Cragars. That's what I was trying to avoid. How would 17x8's look? Could I use those same size tires? Those Cragar's have 4.5 backspace. I want a wide tire, so, I don't know how wide that would be.

I'll take that advice about the brakes. I'll see if I could find anything.

Thanks!

 

You could run 17X8's, but a 275 is a touch too wide for them. About as wide as I'd go on a 17X8 is 255, that's not saying that you can't run 275's on a 17X8, that's just me saying I wouldn't. Call or e-mail Cragar and ask if they have them in 17x9 with 5" backspacing, they might. 17x8's would look just fine, it's just that the tire would be bulging a bit and that isn't good.

 

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Might not hold the bead that well...or for not long. Good idea, I'll give Cragar a call and see. Maybe they have them, just not listed on their site.

Thanks for all the help man. I think I have a really straight forward idea now w/ my suspension mods and also helped clear a lot w/ the rims. :hail:

 

On more than one occasion, it has taken two or three times to get the right combination of parts & settings for what I was after. If I could have gotten them right on the first try, my car would be painted and the 6-speed would be in, plus a whole list of other things would be done. I have spent more money to get things right than I even care to add up (not so much on my current GTA, but the Firebirds & T/A's before it). If I can help someone avoid the same pitfalls I have already fallen into, and they are willing to listen to advice from experience, I will. It doesn't matter to me if you take my advice, that is why it's called advice and not the rules, it just matters that you were willing to listen. My way is definetly not the only way, or even the right way for everyone, but it sounds like you are looking for exactly what I was on my first Firebird. I got mine there through a lot of trial & error, as well as listening to advice from people in the know. Now, it is my turn to try to help.

Pretty funny how it took a friggin' essay response to say "You're welcome, no problem man, anytime". :lala:

 

Stupid question, what would be the hardest and firmest shocks/struts and not ones that are really expensive. I got SFC and a STB with eibach 1.25" drop springs. What would benefit me the most on traction wise? I was thinking of starting off by getting the lower control arm relocation brackets since my car is lowered. I know hard shocks will hurt my launch but I want a all around handler and I love driving and fealling every bump. I am going to upgrade the rest of the suspention after winter but I was just wanted to get these parts now. Thanks.