fbody4me

Well I just completed a rebuild of the entire front end on my 1983 T/A.Bilstein HD's,Moog springs(front and rear),poly a-arm bushings,and all Moog steering components.I put the tires on and get the car off the jack stands and then I notice it My T/A sits like my truck!!!I have 4" of gap between the tires and the fenders and quarters.Even all the way around.Used the old spring isolators(still good).Springs are indexed and installed correctly.WTF!!!Has anyone experienced this with these springs(5662&5665)?BTW tires are 245/50/16.I read somewhere that these springs are a IROC replacement spring.Is there something that could be different from a early T/A to a mid to late IROC?Weight,subframe,a arms?

Apeiron

How long have they been on the car?

thirdgen88

its normal to have a slightly larger gap in the front right when you drop the car back down (especially if it is on a rough surface).. Try rolling the car back and forth and the front end should settle down (dunno bout the rear though )...

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

Did you tighten all the bolts to the control arms without the weight on the wheels? If so, then you may have some binding in the bushings that is preventing the body from settling all the way. Try putting it back on jack stands the way you had it, loosening the control arm bolts, and letting it down with the weight on the wheels, then re-tightening everything. Obviously you will need something under the wheels (such as ramps) so that you can get under the car while the weight is on the wheels. Also, you probably already did this, but make sure that the springs are seated correctly in their mounts.

Randy82WS7

good point on the bushings bolts, may have gotten carried away tightening them up!

good luck

fbody4me

The springs have been on for three days now.I have tried pushing down on the car many times to see if the height changes and it doesn't.Also I did put the tires on the front and set it down on car ramps when I torqued the a-arms and had to put it back on jack stands to finish doing my brakes.I do know that the camber is out and that might help a little with the gap but not much.The car did sit kinda high before the new springs but not a 4" gap .I did however change the front a-arms.The original ones were rusted pretty bad and the hole for the end links was worn out.The ones I put on the car came from a 1988 GTA.The GTA was not wrecked,just no motor or tranny.No damage to the a-arms at all and they looked identical to the ones from my car.I read somewhere that you should drive the car for awhile to allow the springs to "set in" but even if it drops another inch that still wont be enough.I also got the front springs from the GTA and they look totally different than the Moog springs.Not as tall,One less coil,and more space between the coils.Still have the gm tag with the number on them.I think I might try these.What do you guys think?

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

Im glad you posted this...

I have been debating getting the MOOG springs. Do you have a pic of what the car looks like with the 4" lift? hehehe

rx7speed

so wait let me get this straight

it sits like a stock mustang does?

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

You got me curious so I just went out to the garage to check on mine. I have the same moog springs as you got, all 4. Not installed yet, but will be going on as part of the suspension rebuild. I have the old ones out, so I put them side by side, and they are exactly like the stock 85 TA springs that I took out, in appearance at least. Same height, material diameter, & number of coils. My old springs were not sagging and seemed fine, but I wanted to do a complete rebuild, so I decided to replace the springs with Moogs since they are so reasonably priced. Given that they are physically the same, I do not expect to see a major difference in ride height after installing.

Have you been driving it over the past 3 days? It may make a difference. How do your old springs compare to the new moog springs side by side before installing?

I read a lot of threads here when researching these springs, and I did not see anything about the moogs making that kind of difference. A little higher initially, but not the difference you are describing.

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

Is it possible that you got the wrong part? Mabey your supplier sent you the wrong stuff?

And I still want to see a pic!

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

I really hate to say it, but this is way I cut a whole coil off my fronts. I tried rolling them around for three months. I just couldn't take it anymore.

fbody4me

I havn't drove the car at all.Still sitting in the garage.I'm not going to even try to drive it with these springs because they will never lower the car enough when "broke in"and also because my windows arn't tinted yet You can see the yellow on the Bilsteins plan as day.I was a little off on the quarter gap.Its 3&3/4" not 4".The Moog springs looked like the ones that came out of the car but didn't measure them.I had to compress the crap out of them with a spring compressor to even get them started in my a-arms(a-arms loose,just hanging there)and then used a floor jack to compress them enough to tighten the ball joint.Does this sound right I'm positive they are seated right.Also was wondering if Moog springs come in a plain white box?The Moog name was nowhere to be found but it had their part #5662&5665 on the box?Either way I'm going to try to send these back.I'll try to borrow a camera and post some pics before I take the springs back out.I think I'm going to put the old ones back in the rear and the GTA springs in the front.BTW I measured the original front springs,witch looked like the Moog springs,and measured the GTA front springs.What a difference!!!

Original srings - 8 1/2 coils 15 1/2" tall .675 coil dia.

1988 GTA springs - 6 1/4 coils 14" tall .675 coil dia. also had the tag on them- BZX 14029398

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

Sounds like you might have gotten the wrong springs. Mine were in a blue (IIRC) and white box with moog printing all over it. A company as big as moog, I would expect them to use something more than a plain white box. Sounds more like the box a cheap foreign replacement would come in. Where did you purchase them?

I'll try to get measurements of my moogs tonight and post them.

Also, I remember reading a post or 2 on here that there were 2 different moog spring available, and that second set would make the car sit considerably higher. You have the correct PNs, but it could be possible that the wrong springs are in the wrong box???

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

Got the measurements from my new, uninstalled moog springs:
Fronts - 13 3/8" tall, 7 coils, 3\4" dia
Rears - 15 1/2" tall, 8 coils, 1\2" dia

Diameters might be just a tad big as I had them powder coated. fbody4me, if your springs are bigger than that when you take them out, then you probably have the wrong ones.

fbody4me

Thanks for the info Wilyk9.Do you still have or remember the part numbers?Mine are 5662 and 5665.I know that the front springs were alot taller than the extra GTA springs I have because I compared the two and the GTA springs are 14" tall.Were your springs in a plane white box with just the part number and smaller print that said made in USA?The name Moog was nowhere to be found(thought that was kinda strange).I ordered them from Spohn and have not read any bad things about them here so I didn't give a second thought.Also where did you buy your springs from?I do know these suckers are coming back out Hopefully there was a mix up and I'll be able to exchange them for the right springs.If not the used GTA springs are going in.Thanks for any info.

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

No longer have the boxes, but the part numbers are the same, checked my receipt to be sure. And I do remember that the part numbers were on the box as well. My boxes were far from plain white boxes though, they were printed with moog name/logo and other text/graphics all the way around. I got my springs from Summit Racing in the Akron area, Tallmadge to be exact, since I am close enough to drive there and had to get some other stuff there at the time.

I have ordered parts from Spohn also, have some stuff from him right now to go into my suspension rebuild. I have nothing but praise for the quality of his parts and the service I have received from him. Granted I have not had to return anything yet though. Get the springs out, measure them, then call Spohn with the info you have, I would guess that exchanging them would not be a problem, especially if they do measure out to be longer.

Give him a link to this thread, he is one of the mods of the Suspension / Chassis / Brakes forum.

91GTAHoss

The same exact thing happened to me, while rebuilding the front end and replacing the shocks and struts I figured I'd replace the old springs as well. It raised the car, and it looks terrible. I had always just figured that the old ones were sagging alot, but as I think about it I have a hard time believing that a stock GTA would sit this high. I bought the springs from Spohn, and recieved the springs in an all white package, it didn't say moog anywhere. It was next to impossible to compress them enough to install; we had to make up special shackles just to compress them enough to fit. I have had them on for several months and have noticed no drop or settling in them. Im curious to find out if there was a mix-up somewhere.

DeWynter

I replaced all 4 springs in my car with Moog springs for the lvl 3 suspention. My car sat low on the back before now sits just right. I also opted for the cargo version of the rear springs. way thicker than the stock ones, also about 4 " longer than the ones that came out. My formula retains the exact hieght that pontiac specified the car to be from factory. I have heard that If you install the lvl 3 suspention springs in a car that was equiped with lvl 1 or two springs then the rid hight of the car will go up. I personally have not seen it. I do know that befor I did up the bolts from the sway bar that my car did sit higher. Not sure if the bigger sway bars in GTA and formula will affect rid hieght.

wilyk9

iTrader: (13)

In all the reading I did before starting on my suspension rebuild, I did not run across anything referring to suspension as lvl 1 or 3 or anything like that. DeWynter, could you shed some light on the differences, or post a link that explains more?

fbody4me, you have any luck resolving this spring issue? I am curious to find out how things came out for you.

MrDude_1

you know, years and years ago, when 3rdgens were new... there was this thing called fender gap.




no one payed attention to it.





welcome to your new, stock height third gen... while in modern eyes it looks tall, in 80s eyes, it looks normal. look at other restored older cars.


what you're used to seeing is a saggy springed 3rdgen that sits lower...... because its springs are old and saggy. ever notice the low milage 3rdgens are either lowered or they're "jacked up"?




this is normal.
dont act shocked. lol.

if you're wondering, this is also the same reason why a dropspring kit didnt lower your car. they measure the drop from "stock height". meaning anywhere from where your car sits now with new moogs, to where most cars sag to over time.. depending upon when they measured the drop.

if you want to run the moog springs, and have it sit low, you need to cut the coils.

kretos

yeah alot of people fail to realise that these cars can be anywhere from 12 to 22 years old

so things that look "stock" right now are actually worn out

rx7speed

yup
even in the world of rx7 I have seen ppl talk about putting lowering springs on their car and it gets higher
when you take a car from 1987 and put springs on in that are new vs some springs are are saggy and worn out it can change things quite a bit

laiky

i got the moogs, they came in blue boxes. They raised the car back to stock ride height, i called it my SUV for months. perhaps you got some cheapo replacments that correspond to the moog part numbers? my car is higher than i would like but it appears stock not absurd

JerseyMark

iTrader: (2)

I NEED PICS!!!...

I am about to get new springs for my 91 RS Convertable. I dont know which to get. Moogs or Eibachs. Someone post pics of there cars looked like after installing new springs!!

kaupca

I recently put a set of the MOOG 5662 on a 1992 Camaro RS. They were shorter than the ones that came off the car. The directions even said they would be. They came in a box marked MOOG. Had to use an impact wrench on the spring compressor to compress then enough to put them in. The ride height hardly changed at all but the car handles better and never bottoms out. Sound like you might have the wrong springs. I got mine from O'Reilly Auto Parts for $59.99 with a lifetime warranty.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

I'm kind of curious as to what the fender gap should be on these cars stock. I have an '88 WS6 (I know some of the WS6 springs are a bit different). Actually the springs off the GTA were probably WS6 springs, making them look different. In any case, I've noticed my rear sits a bit lower than my front..not really noticeable though. Is 4" stock, for even the later models that had a bit smaller ground clearance (88-92, I thought)?

I'd like to replace springs soon as well, and I'm just kind of curious as to how much of a difference lowering springs will make in ride height. I really don't want to drop my car much at all (if any) from where it is now, I just want new springs, so I'm trying to figure out how far from stock my worn springs are.

DeWynter

With Brand new spring my car sits 2.785" Inches on the front and 3.48" on the back (used my digital caliper)

camaro_junkie

I would guess that you got the wrong parts in the box. I put some moog steering components on recently and I got a right-hand threaded tie rod end in a left-hand threaded box. I put energy lowering springs on my car a few months ago and I did notice that it is lower than with my old saggy springs (fronts done, rears not done yet). Granted I have a V6, but our springs have a smaller spring constant anyways.

85firebird

My car is an '85 with V6 and no air. I have 215/75R15 tires on all 4 corners. The front coils are Moog 5608 and the rear coils are cheapo CC635. According to Moog's website, the front is a heavy duty option, and the rear is the variable rate "cargo coil" version.

The front gap between the top of the tire to the highest point of the wheel well cut-out is close to 4"! Way too high.... imagine if I had my stock size tires on (195/75R14). In back, the gap is about 2", which is about right.

Why on earth would there be a heavy duty option on the front of an F-body? It's not like I may want to go off-roading in my Firebird. And it's not like I'll be carrying more cargo in my engine bay. So WTF? Searching through Moog's database, the 5608 coil appears as a heavy duty option on 90-91 V8 Firebirds. This does not make any sense! How can the same coils springs be used on a V6 car with no air and on a V8 car with air? I seriously think there is an error in their database. Go here Moog and check it out for yourself.

Buddy

No mistakes guys. My sagging car got a suspension overhaul around '96. I used Moog springs as replacements. I got STOCK height. My car sat like a truck until this past summer, went to Eibach's. I can say that the Moogs were good quality, they never dropped a mm after all these years. I called Moog last winter, they were the springs for my car, but the backs were the cargo coils, something I think was a mistake. You could tell the rear of the car road rougher than the front. In corners, my back end would actually step out slightly with the slightest bump, something the old wornout originals didn't even do. On rough roads, I swear the backend came off the ground with every bump. I hated the ride of it. Love the Eibachs I got in now, plus the height is just right.

doc76239

Did I read your post right, your replacement springs are for an iroc? If so there is a differance in the factory iroc to firebird springs. I just replaced my firebird formula springs in the rear. They are differant than iroc springs. Firebird has 1 less coil and is shorter overall, but the coils are spaced out father. Irocs are longer and have 1 more coil, and are closer to gether. Fire bird springs are stiffer? Hope this helps.

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
I ran Moog spring on my 82 bird from 1986 till 2002. The car was way too stiff. If you are replacing spring go with the Ebach Pros. Yes they will lower the car, a bit, but we talking about 1 inch or less over OEM. The only other componalnt that you have to change is the Panrod in the back. A front end alignment is required for the Ebach springs. The ride will be better with the Eback then with the Moog.