I have lowered 92 RS with an adjustable Lakewood Panhard Bar. I have no issues with the bar. I am concerned it was the wrong choice for my applicatiion.

Is it better to stick with this bar or swap out to a non-adjustable bar with relocation brackets made for the lowered car. I saw a setup at BMR fabrication.

When my rear suspension travels there is a rub on the drivers side. Of course there has to be a lot of travel for this to occur. I have Tokico Illumnia Adjustable shocks on the rear, but I am trying to avoid making them stiffer.

What are your thoughts?

 

I have my car lowered as well and I use the adjustable panhard bar but I am also going to get the relocation brackets for the control arms as well as the bracket for the panhard bar itself. I would stay with adjustable bar if I were you so that you can fine tune the rear. JMOP though but that's what I am going to do.

 

If you are looking at lowering the PHB check out this thread. There is a lot to read but you will be better off for it.
http://frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=6124&

 

Your rub may be due to a non centerd rear end.

How did you adjust the bar to center the rear?

The method that I use is to driver the car up on several 2 x 12 boards so that I can crawl under the car to adjust the bar.

I drop a plumb bob from each fender lip and measure to the flat part of the wheel with rule.

I adjust the bar until the spacing is the same on both sides.

 

Then why are concerned if it's the wrong choice if you never adjusted it correctly? Get it centered and you'll be fine.

 

honestly, I'm suprised that you haven't broken that one yet... doesn't look anywhere near as beefy as you'd expect it to have to be.

 

I am not putting down enough power or driving the car hard at all.

Have you an experience or no someone that broke one?

 

BTW, stress is put on the panhard rod when you turn, very minimal force when you accelerate or launch.

 

Good to know... That would be why I have no issues. I do not push car that hard.

 

i tend to do alot of drifting and cornering at 50mph, would the stock bar be stronger than the adjustable??

 

Now I do know the stock bar is weak. It is a u channel style. It is real flimsy though. You can feel the it in a lane change on the highway when the rear wobles

 

I do noy know of any mfgs that make an aftermarket PHB weaker than the stock one but I buy from good quality mfgs.

The stregth of the PHB is not as important as it's location. If you want I can try to explain how roll-centers work but it's difficult. Basically you want the rear-end in the middle of the car. AND You want the axle side of the bar to be as low as possible. The angle of the PHB has a jacking effect on the rear-end. If the bar if flat, that's bad, if the bar is diagonal, that's good and the more the better.

Note: I just noticed you said you go drifting, in this case, I was under the impression that you want the rear-end to be as loose as possible. I'd leave the PHB stock, it's perfect for that. Strength should not be an issue, but if something does brake down there I'll bet the brackets will break off before the bar snaps.

 

well thats good new....ah sort of.. but still is the adjustable stronger than the stock?

 

I'd say replace it. I'm into drifting and its one of the first mods I did, makes a big difference in the feel of the car when weight transfer transitions. I agree you'd want the car "loose" to some extent, but more in regards to the suspension tune, not the chassis or suspension components themselves, you want that as tight and strong as possible.

I kind of wish Deans post wasnt deleted. I wanted to ask for some info on that relocation bracket he's using.

 

CH is probably right, I'm not a drifter so I really wouldn't know but it makes sense, the PHB is huge when it comes to weight transfer. It does seem like it's easier to kick out my rear-end with out the PHB mods which I thought was a good thing for you guys but I guess not. If you guys set up your drifters like race cars, your back tires are gonna last about a day or two. Do you guys use cheap tires?

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...=jegs+AND+dean

theres the link to his PHR relocation brackets. alot of info there...as well as on the fraxx board

 

Hey thanks for the link. I'm no pro or anything so I cant say I know the best way to tune a car. But for me personally I've found its better to make changes to the suspension tune than it is to change parts on the car. I first learned this lesson when I tried to use different size tires to "tune" the car. It would work to some extent but overall nowhere near as effective as sticking with a consistent baseline tire setup and changing the suspension tune to affect the handling characteristics (sway bars, spring rates, tire pressures, etc). I guess if you compared this to the topic here, it would be better to have the ability to adjust the placement of the PHB then it would be to change the PHB itself. As for rear tires, I use whatever tires I can get for free, most are used. I prefer the good stuff, A or AA rated but I'll settle for less if I have to. I also prefer smaller sidewall tires for bigger wheels, they provide a smoother transition between traction and a loss of traction. I go through between 3 to 6 sets of rear tires per event (about 5 hours). I buy fronts new, only the good stuff AA.

 

No, but I have broken the body side mount autoxing, and although made of thinner steel, it has more of a contour to it and the brace mounts right up next to the pivot, where the jegs one doesn’t have any bracing.

Also Jason (unbalance engineering) claims that in his testing they PHR relocation brackets don’t live without bracing.

 

i'm still on my first set of tires and they still have about 50% left, thats after countless burnouts and drifts. Also i prefer to drift after a good rain storm, its more fun that way..... especially when your sideways at 50! But i do quite a bit of drifting on dry pavment too.

 

CrazyHawaiian Quote:

"it would be better to have the ability to adjust the placement of the PHB then it would be to change the PHB itself"

That's what I was attempting to say ealier.

"I use whatever tires I can get for free, most are used"
"I go through between 3 to 6 sets of rear tires per event (about 5 hours)"

Okay, that sounds realistic. Where do you get free used tires? Other 3rd genners take offs? I always wondered how drifters could afford to do that to tires. Makes sense though. I couldn't see a properly set-up race suspension go through tires any slower with the way you guys drive. Looks like a lot of fun...

92transam16 Quote:
"i'm still on my first set of tires and they still have about 50% left, thats after countless burnouts and drifts."



How many is "countless" and what kind of tires are you using?
My last set of tires were on my car for less than 9 months. I do launch off 1 out of 10 lights but I don't let the tires spin, they slip a little and that's it. I do a lot of canyon cruising but I don't get sideways, I just let em slip a little. I've heard guys say drifting isn't that hard on tires but I just wonder if buying tires every 6 months is normal for some guys.

 

Thats freakin scarry!! I'm surprised no company makes a weldon brace thats already pre-bent n everything.

 

ive used these tires since November of last year when i bought the car, and i put about 7000 miles on these tires. Who knows how many miles the previos owner put on the tires. I do occasional burn outs, but peelouts at probably 1/5 lights and drift a corner on average 5-6 times a week.

 

Okay, that makes more sense. Is your suspension mostly stock?
The question that brought this about was weather a PHB and bracket were a good idea for a car that spends the majority of it's time drifting. Not a street car that spends a 1/4 of it's time drifting.

I surmized that a well tuned race suspension would wear tires faster than stock one when drifitng and that it would be too expensive to race that way. Crazy Hawaiian explained that it was more important to have the race suspension and use cheap used tires which is exactly what I wanted to know.

Ben
BTW, if the PHB mounting bracket came broke off what's left to hold the rear? I don't think the control arms or torque arm can handle any lateral force. Shocks are the only left? Yikes is right...

 

completly stock... But i am running in an autocross event in january

 

I get my tires from the tire trash bins at my local tire shops. I go at least twice a week after midnight and cycle through about 10 sets of tires a month (well, when the drift car is working). You'd be supprised how many people buy 4 brand new tires when something bad happens to one, its those 3 left overs that are perfectly fine that I use. But you know, this isn't really the best way to do it, I'm just cheap. The best for drifting is to have good quality and consistent sizes front and rear, its just that most cant afford it, only the sponsored guys have that luxury. Better rear tires will allow you to hold more speed while sliding, you'll have more "grip" so to speak than you would with the cheaper tires I use. The brand new good tires are also alot more consistent in both the sizes and performance, where as I'm always using different sizes and brands, sometimes kind of junk. Good to experiment but bad for consistency. Front tires on a drift car always wear faster than they would on a race car, we usually run excessive ammounts of negative camber on the fronts (something that hurts a camaro drifter as we have limited camber possibilities). The reasoning is that the excessive negative camber results in more contact patch with the wheels at full lock (considering how the camber angles change at full lock, and that drifters spend most of their time near full lock). Very different ideas and stuff compared to actual racing, drifting is definately not racing. But they do share similar theory in that either car benifits from a strong chassis and tunable suspension.

 

well said!

 

I've had the Lakewood bar previously and I'd say replace it with one that can be adjusted on the car without having to take one end loose. My biggest complaint of the Lakewood piece is that I could never get the rear centered exactly due to having to take loose the axle end of the bar. I switched to a Spohn bar and it did the job. The axle sits perfectly centered and I have no rubbing issues like I had with the Lakewood. As for relocater brackets They're a good call for lowered cars. I had a constant shuddering at highway speeds which was cured with the brackets.

 

Just FYI, a PHR bracket will have the same effect regardless of weather or not the car is lowered.

 

I realized that after the purchase. Pissed me off that I have to remove to adjust. So your suggestion is the Spohn bar and the lowering brackets...

thanks