i am what i hated 45 years ago when i was only 15 and building cars, an old man with money.
not only do i have money, i have a 1990 camaro that i have owned since it was new, just like the other 6 i bought new. ok, one was a firebird with a chevy engine.
now my last camaro is on its last legs and i intend to rebuild it all. im going to have it taken down to bare metal and repainted. im going to drop in a crate 383 which i intend to put a blower on as well as a few other things. the 700 trany will get a little work and the interior will get every electronic toy i can find, including heads up displays and camera's.
now for the suspension, which is the purpose of my topic. i have heard that there are complete front and rear suspension systems that are aftermarket for the camaro. i would want a system good road running and would handle and be safe at 150 mph.
so anyone know of any after market systems that i can bolt on? full systems, not parts for a rebuild of a system. ok the breaks will be add on, unless the systems comes with good ones, as well as a rear end that can handle 600+ hp.
this is my dream car and has been since i first saw one, and i intend to spend on it what i would spend on a new car, if i bought one. i figure that this will be the last car i ever drive, so i want it perfect.
any suggestions on places to purchase the suspension systems?

 

for the rear, aftermarket torque arm(remote mount), control arms, control arm relocate brackets, and panhard bar.

for the front, aftermarket tubular k-member and tubular control arms, otherwise Moog ball joints and steering components.

SUBFRAME CONNECTORS are a must. Also, good shocks/struts, good springs, sway bars and good bushings.

brands...well, thats personal preference. Spohn, BMR, alston, UMI, AJE, lakewood, and more..... - do a search on here, there's pros and cons to all. Usually you'll find someone else has tried it and you can get others' feed back before you make a purchase. I'm not sure of any complete kits available, but most manufacturers/dealers will work you a package deal if you're buying a lot at once.

 

thank you for the info. my camaro has treated me and my wife very well over the years and i want to do what ever i can to put her back into new condition.
do you think the tubular k-member with the control arms, etc, will replace everything that is old in the front. lets face it, the body is so sexy, but they were not made to last 16 years much less the additional 10+ years i want to be able to drive her? i had someone tell me that hydro steering was pretty nice too and that it would eliminate some clutter from the engine compartment - any comments?
and as for the read end, i do want to replace it and but on something that will handle 600+ hp so that means a ford rear end - but what about getting rid of the leaf springs and going to a good substitute.
before i pull it apart i want to have everything maped out and purchased, so i am making a list, and checking it twice - if you get my meaning.
i ahve heard good things about spohn and even got some info back, but this place is the well of knowledge about f-bodies and i wanted to get all the info i could.
thanks for the information.
tony

 

just real quick off the top of my head....

i know Hotchkis makes a complete suspension setup

called the "TVS" or Total Vehicle system,

i searched real quick, but couldnt find it... maybe they dont offer it anymore?



also check out this site for some stuff: F-Body Motorsports 82-02 Camaro Parts, Z28 Parts, Camaro SS Parts, Firebird Parts, Trans AM Parts, GTA Parts, Iroc Parts, Formula Parts and Firehawk Parts - 82-92 Catalog Table of Contents

 

that Hotchkis "Total Vehcile System" is load of crap. The only thing it includes is lca's, an adjustable panhard, springs and sway bars. I belive sfc's are an option, but that's still not even half of what's involved.

- a 9" is a great idea, what you'll want is to get one from Moser or another manufacturer that builds them for a 3rdgen f-body. Then it will have the tabs and mounts to bolt-in to your factory type suspension(tq arm, lca's, springs, etc) They build a bracket that ties to the housing that enables you to run your tq arm suspension. Plus you can get the proper bolt pattern on the axle flanges, etc.
- Yes, if you put in a good tubular k-member and tube a-arms, along with new steering components, ball joints, etc you're front-end will be better than new. - I wouldn't go to hyd steering in a street vehicle of any sort. Full hyd systems are known for being extremely sensitive, and over time become worse. One slight wiggle of the wheel at 70mph and your 3 lanes over, not the kind of thing you want for safety or driveability. A new/rebuilt steering box might be in order, which means you can upgrade to a close ratio unit.

I fully agree on these car's body lines and sexyness. I love my bird. You can't kill beauty, you just have to down it sometimes and give her a little make-over. - Mine's apart, largely cut-up, going back together on a full tube chassis, completly custom......

 

I want to think you for your comments. i have a general idea that a new 9" rear end will be necessary and i will get on it. since i am going to completely rebuild the rear suspension system i am not too concerned about keeping stock mounts. Spohn Performance at tech@spohn.net has advised me that they can do the same thing about complete suspension systems.
i have gotten a lot of advice on and off line and i think i will dump the hydro steering idea.
i am still making a list with prices so that i can start ordering parts within the next year. i want to make sure i have everything before i start tearing my car apart.
again - thanks to all for your help.

 

does that old man want to share his wealth with the other 15 year olds buliding cars?

 

3rd gens don't have leaf springs.
The springs and shocks in the rear work pretty well, but it sounds like you want to go all out. You can use a coilover kit, since you seem like you've got too much money or air bags might be worth it. Don't want you "old butt" to get sore with a stiff suspension eh?

Ford 9" or Chevy 12 bolt would both work, many places can make it for you to fit in the 3rd gen (ie, so it fits with stock style rear suspension)... Spohn comes to mind as the main guy, which it seems like you've found out.

I'd also think about an aluminum drive shaft, and a safety loop.
Consider polyurethane bushings all around, or 1LE high durometer rubber, or rod ends, for the rear suspension. Obviously rod ends will give best corner carving performance, at the price of ...well, price... but I was thinking ride quality. poly is a nice substitute. Just something to consider.

 

here's a list front to back:

FRONT
wonder bar
36mm (or bigger) sway bar
greasable poly sway bar bushings
tube K-member
tube a-arms (spohn's have moog ball joints already installed)
eibach pro-kit springs (unless you're fond of the factory ride height)

get all the above stuff from spohn. the front sway bar comes as a set with the rear one, and are the biggest sway bars you can get, and they are chrome-moly.

rebuilt gearbox (get one from a car with F41 suspension. order one from a parts store for like say, a 90 Z-28 with the f41 susp. option)
iner and outer tie rods
centerlink
idler arm
poly motor mounts
you can get just about all of this stuff at a good parts store. I prefer moog, which is a napa brand, though if you check different parts stores, i know other chains carry moog as well. the poly bushings and mounts get prothane.... energy suspension is fine, I'm just biased.

REAR

Strange 9" or 12 bolt rear with c-clips eliminators
adjustable Lower control arms
adjustable panhard bar
24mm or bigger sway bar (comes as a set)
greasable bushings and a sway bar mount kit for your rear
Lower control arm relocation brackets
Sub-frame connectors
spohn high strength driveshaft (don't remember his brand name)
adjustable torque arm with integral driveshaft loop
KYB AGX shocks all 4 corners

Get everything from spohn, and get it with greasable polyurethane bushings. poly lasts longer than the car probably will. You may also want to consider a coil-over kit, but this will negate the need for springs and shocks, obviously. spohn makes a good kit for this also. you can probably do everything for under $6k.

 

Tony,

I am in the process of setting up my camaro to do almost exactly what you are wanting to do with yours. The main difference I am shooting to average about 160 to 170 range.

I do not think that any one company has a complete set up that will work for what we are doing. Your are going to have to peice some of it together. While I did put a 9" in my car there are pro's and cons to it.
The 12 bolt will handle the power but the c-clips suck and have very small axle bearings which will over heat in a sustained high speed car. In my 67 camaro I cut the 12 bolt housing ends and put Olds housing ends on it and it uses a bolt in axle with a bigger axle bearing. Basically it has axle the strength of the 9" axle but a housing that fits the car better. It does require custom axles but the the specialty rear ends for our cars are not cheep anyway. The 12 bolts fits better in our cars due to it size. The 9" is a bit of a shoe in these cars. Especially if you have a spohn torque arm. I needed to box in for clearance around the torque arm at the rear end in my car. Not sure if other people have had this issue or not? My car is lowered.
The 9" is a great rear end and I would have not used a 12 bolt just do to the fact that I will be changing gears quite often (for different applications) and this way I'll just be able to pull out another third member and drop it in.

Most of the tubular k-members that I have seen have always been for drag racing just to take some weight off the front end. I do not know how they would work for a road car. I am sure lots of people can better answer this one then me. I will be using quite a bit of the Spohn front suspension (still to be purchased) for my car. I am still trying to figure out big front brakes and how to put a larger & beefier spindle on my car. I'll probably end up making billet hubs and brake hats.

Subframe connectors, some sort of roll cage, aluminum drive shaft, and a safety loop are all most for what your doing. The aluminum drive shaft should be used so that the rotating mass is less at high speed and also use big u-joints. I would say that spicer 1350 u-joints and yokes are a must. Use a qualtity drive shaft. Not a reworked factory one. It should probably be 3 1/2" in dia. When you oder your rear end tell them a 1350 yoke for a u-joint. In regards to a drive shaft safety loop get a good one and make sure that if you do loos a u-joint that it is properly secured. The drive shaft has a lot of leverage when it is spinning fast.

I am making quite a few (ok more then quite a few parts) for my car. While I am using the stock front frame I have already started on most of the fabrication. If you see my thread in fabrication called 1982 silver state project you will see as things progress.

I have not been on here too long but already made some great new friends. I hope that once my car is complete I can get out and see some of the members that I chat with. If you have any questions you can always pm me.

Best of luck and thanks to a great board here!

Brett

 

WOW! that was one heck of a good suggestion. im starting to price them out now. that is fantastic. thank you.

 

Another fantastic reply. thanks again.
im going to try to get a complete parts list, buy eveything, and then do it all at once. engine and suspension. then i will have to pull it all out again for the painting and interior but what the heck.

 

well - if i had to guess i would probably think that the old lady would be a little pissed about that.
but you can be proud you asked.

 

As long as you are getting a custom rear end built I would get one that is made for a 4th gen. All of the suspension points are in the same place but they are set up for the 50mm back space wheels that are easy to find. Then you can more easily fit massive rear tires. With the 600 hp 315's will be wanted.

 

I understand that a 4th generation is actually wider than the 3rd gen. how will that effect the use of tires? i was considering going to 17 inch 9.5 with 275/40's and i thought that was as big as i could go? how will the extended length effect the tire fitting in the rear and will the same size work on the front?
good call on the use of a 4th gen rear end - im looking for one now. i can get a new one from chevy - i get parts at employee prices so it cuts down on costs.
once again, thank you.
tony

 

i have been looking around on the net and who the heck makes 315's? 275 seems to be the largest i can find. and do you know a good mfg of billet wheels for the camaro? after i did this i found some, but they appear to need 17/11.00 wheels. are they going to fit the rear. i see that some 4th gen have problems with that much wheel including having to lift the car and then lift the rear end a few inches to get them on. sincve i will be driving this a lot if i get a flat that seems like a lot of problems. if i go with the 9.5 inch wheel width it will fit ok, but that was the research i did for a standard width rear end.

 

a factory 4th gen rear is still a 7.5" 10-bolt and will still grenade under the power you're talking about. If you are going to have a 9" or 12-bolt built, then you could use one spec'ed for a 4th gen, then run more comonly found offsets for the rear wheels. - Since you're looking into billet wheels, stick with the 3rd gen spec rear. Why run different offset wheels(2" difference in the front and rear lip) when you won't have issues getting wheels that fit for the factory width rear diff?
I run 17x11 rear, 315/35/17 tires. - This is a common tire size, I know of 2 places near me that stock them or can have them within a few days. They fit fine with my eibach sportline(approx 2" drop) springs. If I had the car any lower, they would probably rub the wheel well lip during suspension cycle. My wheels are Boyd Coddington billets. Intro, Billet Specialties both also make very nice billet wheels, as well as a few other brands. - do a search under my name, I have several pics on these boards.
As for poly vs spherical ends on the lca/panhard/front a-arms/etc, spherical stuff is technically more ridgid, thus better control at higher speeds, but because it is more ridgid, it transfers A LOT more into the vehicle. Much time on the road and you start realizing just how many pebbles there are on the highway. Poly or derulum(spelling?) are better suited for street/perf.
Moog is not a Napa brand. Moog is Moog, napa just happens to sell their stuff. - I do agree that they make/sell a better product.

 

are you saying that you can get 315/35's up front too? it would always be best to have the same tires on all 4 wheels.
and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

no, you won't fit a 315 on the front.
explain?????

 

i think he means to be able to rotate, but it seems this is kinda a drag racing application with 600 hp ( didnt read what hes doing with it so )