This is the current setup that I have and I am not as happy with it as I thought I would be.

89 T/A
36mm hollow/24mm solid sway bars
Bilstein shocks/struts
Eibach Sportlines
Spohn SFC's
LCA's, Relocation brackets
Adjustable Panhard Bar, Wonder Bar
Poly control arm bushings, sway bar end links & bushings
245/50/16 Ultra Z tires.

I am not happy with the performance. I am not complaining about the ride quality, which is actually pretty good. So guys that know suspensions just looking at the combo, what would you change about it?

thanks.

 

What specificly are you not happy about? Balance, grip, transistions, turn in? With suspension things are very complex, and there are a lot of things to consider, a real soid definition of what aspect of perfomance, is needed. This is part of why I really suggest everyone start reading, and tinkering with this stuff if it interests you. Because so much of this is subjective, and driver prefrence, it becomes hard to norrow down what to "change".

 

My main complaint is the rear end feels to light. The car feels great going into a corner, it stays level, but right when you hit the apex of a corner and start to come out the rear end snaps out. Right when you think the car should grap and pull out of the corner it kicks out. I didn't know if the rear is to stiff or the springs/shocks aren't putting enough pressure on the tires. I don't know that much about suspensions, I have spent all of my time on engines.

 

To prevent the rear from kicking out, a smaller rear sway bar would be the easiest change. Bring it back to a 23mm or even a 21 mm rear.

More rubber on the rear tires would help, but that means buying a whole new set of wheels and tires.

 

It may not be so easy. It sounds like you are describing some snap oversteer. have a lower car (2" drop from sportlines) coupled with Poly LCA's it could be that you are hitting your bump stops, or binding up the LCA bushings. Either condition can cause some snap oversteer.

Does this happen just as you start to apply power? or just as the car gets settled? When you are looking at this stuff, you need to pay attention to what you as a driver are doing and also the car, when the oversteer occures.

Check your rear axle pads, and see if it looks like there is bump-stop contact, you might also put just a little bit of clay or something there, and then go take a few corners, and check and see if there was contact.

You can also try putting on some stock LCA's, that will take the poly bushings out as a factor.

One last thign to look at, is the angle your LCA's have, it could be that you are getting some roll steer, and just not sure of what that feels like. Roll steer is a bit hard to describe from a feel. Basicly the thing you will likely notice, is that you will turn in, as the car settles, you will have to start taking some steering angle away. This is because as the car rolls over in a turn, the rear axle steers just a hair, enough that you have make a small correction in the wheel. This can cause you to start "sawing" the wheel mid corner, trying to balance the car on the line. It will feel like the car is going to lose rear traction, and you have to make a minor counter-steer move.

if that is the sensation your are feeling, move your LCA's up a hole in the bracket, try to get the LCA parralell to the ground, then see if the car feels more stable.

 

Dewey,

Thats a very good description of whats happening. The snap oversteer. Actually I had an old thread talking about it thats how I described it.

The car is on jack stands right now, I had different tires put on it today. Same type of tires but are new, the old ones were getting a little low.

The car will snap even if you don't accelarate(SP?)out of a corner. But if you do get on the gas it gets bad. The front of the car feels good, atleast it does to me. The rear of the car literally makes me nervous. I won't drive the car hard because I am scared it's going to kick out. And when I go to correct it coming around it just gets worse.

I will check the bump stops to see if's made contact or not.

Have I put together a bad combonation? I also have a set of stock LCA's I can put on.

 

I don't know that I would say it is a bad combo, you may just have a few kinks to work out. If your hitting the stops, that will for sure be the issue, then you jsut need to find a diffrent bump stop solution, that will allow you to corner without hitting them.

 

I checked the bump stops and they were hitting. You could see where the rear end housing was shinny. I cut about 1 inch off the bump stop. The car drives a lot better. I guess some of it probably is the tires but the car doesn't snap out like it did. I keep expecting it to. I will drive a little harder to see.

I will also check the LCA angle, I forgot to look to see what hole it was in on the relocation bracket.

Would I benefit going to a poly/spherical LCA?

 

I think you would. You will have a little more rear roll with them, since you won't be binding the bushing as the car rolls, I prefer to have a free range of motion, and let the springs, shocks, and sway bars do their jobs. It may or may not be an isssue, but several years ago, I broke a pair of poly/poly LCA's because my car put so much force in a twisting motion, on the LCA's. After that, I suggest people get 1 rod-end on LCA's.

It sounds like you cured the major issue, so now you can tune to your driving style. I think you will find that now that you aren't hitting the stops, even if the tail does want to step out a bit as you start to power out of corners, it will at least be pridictable. If you want a bit more rear grip, go down 1 step in the sway bars, and go to a rod-end LCA.

Hope that helps. Glad it was a easy, and FREE fix!

 

So a poly/spherical would be ok? I have heard they are noisy, which really doesn't bother me. What does dropping sway sizes do? Let the rear roll a little more and let the tires bite more?

 

You got it.

Also, if you put the poly bushing on the body side, and the spherical side on the axle side, it is a bit quiter.

 

Also, which hole should the LCA relocation bracket be in?

 

The hole that makes them parallel to the ground or slighly higher. Not pointing down.

Also, do you have tubular controls arms, or just stock arms and poly bushings in them? Tubular arms are largley unnecessary more most people unless they have a high powered drag car and use slicks.

Stock arms and polybushings is a better street combo, since the stock arm can still flex, preventing bind.

 

When I installed my LCA's, I used poly/spherical rod end with the rod end on the axle. I am very happy with the results although kind of noisy at low speeds but so what I love the way it handles. No snap steer. Rod ends allow the rearend to articulate instead of trying to bind like poly allows to happen. The stock rubber bushed stamped steel LCA flexes as matt_p said but I believe poly/spherical tubular LCA's can help any street application if you want better handling.

 

I have sphons tubular LCA with the poly bushings. Looks like my next purchase for the car will be different LCA's. I will check to see what angle the LCA's are on the car to see if I need to move them. I drove the car a little harder tonight on the way to work and there's a HUGE improvement. It's going to take me a while to get use to the car not kicking out. I appreciate everyones input. I am a lot happier with the car now.

 

Well, if you are no longer getting snap oversteer, you can keep the spohns. Tubular LCA's only bind when the axle rotates alot and your 24mm sway bar seems to be doing a good job preventing this.

 

Glad you fixed your problem and it didn't cost you anything which is also good.

Off topic:
Matt_P what color is that on your camaro, cause that is the exact color i want mine repainted.

 

GM Bright Red I think. Looks exactly the same as my bros 94 cavalier with mint original paint.

 

Well I am alot happier with the car. One thing I have noticed is the rear of the car bottoms out really easy. I didn't realize before it was the bump stops keeping it from doing it. Is it the springs or shocks that control that? Is the bilstein shock a good match for the sportline spring. I don't know anything about spring rates v. shock dampening.

I understand that if you drop a car two inches, it limits suspension travel and it's going to bottom out, just wondering if I can help it any at all.

 

If you want to keep the car lowered you can remove the bump stop and part of the area that it bolts to. You don't want to bottom out the shocks or have the driveshaft hitting the tunnel though. If you decide to remove the bump stops you should block the car, remove the springs and check for clearance by jacking the axle up until something hits. I didn't do that after removing the stops and had no problems until installing a 3" d.s. the driveshaft then rubbed on the e-brake bracket so it was pretty expensive to have the alum. d.s. repaired. Lesson learned, or so you would think... about six months later the upper shock mount broke and the rear shock was bouncing through into the backseat area. I reinforced it with some thicker plate, whether the mount busted from bottoming out or not.. I don't know. I will have to cycle the suspension or mark the shock with some crayon or grease I suppose to find out.