ok im building a 350 for my 1984 firebird ta well after its all done engine alone with no nos or a turbo will be putting out 600 hp its also a t top i dont want to put a role cage in it i want to keep it stock as much as posable all i realy want to change is the trany rear end and motor and keep everything else this is also my daylie driveri was just wondering if there was a way around of hafting to put a role cage in so it dosnt flex and twist on me

 

"sfc's"

 

easy its being bored 40 over and everything oing into the motor is performance forged parts with a com energized came and a 3500rom stall

 

anyone know where i can get a set of subframe connectors for a 1984 firbird trans am t top

 

I seriously doubt you'll be making anywhere near 600 hp with a 350 and no power adder. 600 hp and daily driver are also 2 terms that can't be used together with what you want to do.

SFC are a big help even for a stock car but if you're making any sort of serious power, a minimum of a 6 point roll bar should be installed. You'll lose access to the back seat for passengers but can easily install swingout door bars to make getting in and out a lot easier.

My T-top car has had SFC from the day I bought it and only running 14's. I installed a 6 point bar when I was just about ready to dip into the 11 second range in the 1/4 mile. It now has a full cage because it's in the 9's.

Aftermarket SFC for a third gen will fit all models from 82-92. The chassis is the same no matter what engine it has or if it's a T-top or not. Click on the banners you see around the page for aftermarket third gen parts.

 

my next question is would my subframe connectors hold 600 hp or would i need them and a cage and i know alot of people who have 600 hp cars with no power adders it denpends on the parts you use as for me im not using stock parts at all so that will also help my hp but not my gas milage

 

I don't see a problem. I doubt that you will need any cage. After you get the motor built, only then would i begin to worry about the cage.

If the new motor destroys your rear end or trans don't worry you were going to replace them anyway. If they hold up you have saved money.

Good Luck

 

Are you serious? You are going about this whole thing backwards. A 350 CAN make 600hp, it's not going to be very good daily driver material. The valvetrain is going to be trashed in no time, I don't care what parts you throw into the engine. Build a 454 small block if you want "daily driver", 600hp, and no power adder in the same sentence. You could install more than one type of sfc into the car, which might save you from installing a roll cage if this is for a sleeper type car.

 

I too agree on the 600hp statement. You're not gonna see 600hp out of a small block na that's daily driveable. For those who say they have it, lets see dyno sheets(way too many 300hp car's claim 500+). My 355 ran 11.72 in a 4001lb tank, naturaly aspirated. Street weight of a t-top, you're looking at around 3400. - My cam is far from what most consider daily driveable. Vaccum brakes don't happen, and I'm somewhere around 500hp. You can make 600hp na out of a sbc, but not with a very streetable heads and cam combo. It would take constant maintenance and will need valve springs and other parts often.

- back to the point of this post -
Good subframe connectors will be just fine for any decent street car. The UMI's are about as HD as you'll find. Several other companies offer great sfc's as well(Spohn, BMR, Alston...etc) If you're run anything faster than the 12's, you need to seriously consider a roll cage for your own safety as well as the well being of your car. - You can be the greatest driver in the world and you can't fully control a car that twists. There's a reason NHRA requires a minimum of a 6-point in anything faster than 11.99 (13.99 for rag tops like me).

 

jesus the people on here keep getting dumber and dumber

 

Would you care to explain?

 

you're a mod lol. i'm sure you see it way more then i do. this post is a perfect example

 

An example of what? How does this thread mean that someone is dumb? Someone asks a question, and is most likely new to being an automotive enthusiast, and not knowlegeable about a certain attainable engine power output, does not mean they are dumb. If you can not reply any worthwhile information, besides calling someone a name, then don't reply at all.

 

brutalform: I couldn't have said it better myslef.

Now I want to poke in here for a sec. For the 600HP thing. I personally have a 500 HP (FLYWHEEL) 385. It is far from quiet. IT is all roller, all forged and all very well built. With aluminum heads, roller rockers, and 4130 forged everything. Thats not the issue. The issue is how it will treat you. The way I looked at my project that I have been building for a good 3.5 years is that I am going to build, petty much a race car, borderline.... and tune it enough so that it is OK, for the street. I also didn't wanna use power adders. Maybe a little N20 here and there. So thats what I did. Now my cam has super long duration and some overlap. It is pretty crazy on the street right now. I wouldn't want to go any crazier. If I am in a straight line, maybe someday I will use my N20. Also yeah, if you like autos I guess it is more straigh tforward, but for a stick like me, you have to think about busting yout tranny. I also have a moser 12 bolt, so that is def not breaking (4.11s).

For streetable 600 HP you need a power adder. Hands down. If anyone says that you don't, you either A) in denial or B) have not read enough to learn what you need to know.

Thats all I gotta say about this, later.

-Dennis

 

its an example of a uneducated person, who is making exaggerated claims. yes they are most likely new to being a automotive enthusiast. yes, he has proven hes not knowledgeable about what the hell hes talking about. yes, hes asking stupid questions about things over his head.

while the person themselves may not be dumb, his actions in posting here certainly are. his grammar, and choice of spelling only help to perpetuate the notion that this person just isn't that bright.

that is why, this post is a great example.

all that said...



you need a cage for 600hp, because by the time you're making that without a power-adder, its going to be a track only car, and it should be too damn fast to go down any sanctioning body approved track without atleast a rollbar.

 

Exactly.

 

I've owned a 600+ horse N/A small block. No way that's a street motor(even if every gas station sold 110).

 

 

You read the same thing as everyone else, so you must be in the same boat as him if you cant see what's being debated.

 

 

Or a lot of cubic inches. It's easy to make a 540 BBC have 600 hp and run on pump gas. A 572 could do it on low octane pump gas. A 632 with very little effort could do it. A 350 even bored out any amount just isn't going to do it without a power adder.

I blame misinformation on TV shows and magazine articles showing high HP engines that are supposed to be streetable. Yes maybe a few of them are but making 600 hp at 7500 isn't a street engine. Street engines operate below 5000 the majority of the time. True, a 600 hp 7500 rpm engine will produce a lot more power in the low rpms than a 400 hp engine will but to make those high numbers, low rpm operation suffers. The TV shows and magazine articles also fail to inform you how much else is involved to have a high hp engine in a car. The entire chassis and driveline need to be upgraded to handle all that extra power. 500 hp won't run a 12 second 1/4 mile if it can't get the power to the pavement. On the other end of the scale, there are 300 hp cars that can easily run 12's because of weight distribution and weight transfer, torque multiplication and traction. Go watch a Stock Eliminator 305 or even V6 third gen run circles around some 5.7L TPI street car but the Stock Eliminator car may not be a good street car.

Back on topic:
Build the SBC engine you want. Put SFC in the car and drive it. I really doubt you'll be in any worse condition that 80% of the other third gen owners here. There are a few of us who need the legitimate upgrades. Upgrades are nice but many are not required or just plain overkill. ie: 40 spline axles and a Dana 60 behind a SBC etc. If you take it to the track and run quicker than 11.50, you'll be forced to install a roll bar or you won't be allowed back on the track.

 

Here, I'll help you see the obvious...

The boy is trying to play Mcdonald's parking lot badass with a wiffleball bat. He has no concept of what is being told to him and rather than ask pertinant questions, tries to come up with questions that he thinks would reflect the knowledge that he would like to portray as having.

He apparently thinks 'forged parts' make horsepower, is clueless with regard to the consequence (re: the rest of the car) of the power he dreams of, has no idea about suspension, rigidity, structure, etc. and honestly, probably thinks 2x4 t-top holders are cool.

His actions are akin to a six year old trying to converse to a 30 year old about driving and pretending he knows exactly what is going on in a conversation. It's apparent to all who read this thread. It is, imnsho, disrespectful to anyone who is trying to help him and wastes everyone's time.

Rather than jump on someone for stating their opinion bluntly (which in some instances is the only way to get through to some people) why not take the time and pm the newbie and explain to him his errors and guide him to some productive questions rather than expect everyone else to do it and then act haughtily disdainful when it doesn't happen?

Well, at least imnsho anyway...

 

Well thank you Red Devil, for your valuable input, and for helping me see the obvious. I'll keep all of that in mind.

Now, just in case you do not see the obvious, this kid asked a simple question on the susp/chassis board about a cage, and SFCs. In no way shape or form did he get smart, or cocky in his question. Some members told him that he will not attain a that power with what he has. Then, the thread turns into an engine discussion, and a member posts only to say the origional poster is dumb. No need to call names, now. We all now thats how arguments start out, and threads get locked.


Maybe a new member might be "clueless". So what! Did you ever think they came to TGO to learn, and not boast of how much they know. Not everyone here is a professional builder, tuner etc. If he thinks he can make that kind of power, let him go. He will find out sooner or later.

Asking not to post, as to posting a one liner name calling, is IMO, NOT jumping on someone. There was nothing wrong with this thread, until someone calls someone a name.

I have no problem coming down on a smart mouthed, punk, which, this clearly is not the case.

To the orgional poster, you will not make 600 hp without a power adder on a 350! Do a search on the SFCs. There are many topics on here if you use the search feature.

Thanks, and have a great day!