glennjamin48

I really love my car but am starting to worry about safety as I get older. I would love to keep it but I just no longer feel safe in it when i see the bumper of a truck staring at me at eye level. I was wondering how much safer it would make my car if i added a 8 point roll bar. I would get the slide out bars so it would make it easier to get in and out of since it is my daily driver. My real question other than how much will it improve safety is how safe will i be driving my car with a roll bar and no helment. Is there any chance in an accident that my head could roll way far back and it the bar or roll to the left conner and hit the bar there. I dont want to kill myself while trying not to kill myself. Thanks for any help.

niceroc

iTrader: (2)

grow a sack... ud have to do somehtign really wrong to get the rear bumper of the truck to **** you up, maybe you should just move into a bigger truck if u cant handle it

glennjamin48

Wow thanks for the help *SS maybe you should grow a brain

joshh44

lets keep the language down.
you could always put in a rollcage in there if you want. try it out or maybe if you have a friend who has one in there car and try it out and see if you like it and or if you feel safer with it.
i would think these cars are pretty safe if you do get into a crash. you could always buy another bigger car and use the camaro or which ever car you are driving during the summer times?
just some options.

i would do some searching around tho to see how bad these cars are for crashes. i would think they are fairly save.

glennjamin48

yea sturcturally they seem really safe. I want to basically put in the cage though and some racing seats and a harness. My seats right now are shot and i dont believe my seat belts are working properly they never stop even when you pull them hard. Still if i put all of this in i dont want to be knocking my head into a steal beam. Does anyone who has a roll cage know how close it is to your head.

blyth18md

Daily driver + cage + no helmet = not safe. Might help the car survive but it isnt going to do you much good.

Perhaps if you can manage to design the cage in a manner where you can safely run a 4/5 point harness, while keeping the main hoop far enough away from your head...then maybe. But typically its not reccomended.

Sink that money into some good brakes and some high performance/ defensive driving lessons. Or buy a volvo wagen

glennjamin48

yea thats what i was thinking steal bars near your head cant be safe. I love this car though. I think i might just have to get a second car. Im in my senior year of college "go seminoles" and will soon have to be driving my car alot. I was able to keep the miles down because i live near campus but soon ill have a job that will require alot of driving. Maybe i can wait and save up for an 09 camaro that would be nice and 89 formula and an 09 camaro. Are there any other parts that i could put on for safety. I have SFC. Would a wonderbar help. Im looking for passive safety, not brakes. There are too many idots driving here in tally for me to avoid all of them.

joshh44

yeah its not overly save. one smack in the bar wouldnt be to much fun.
i probably wouldnt put a rollcage in. get some good breaks and proper tires would hellp alot in avoiding crashes.

joshh44

if you did get a crash. im sure the car would be more damaged then you would be. if you got the bars then it could be the otherway around. i just bought a second car yesterday.

glennjamin48

yea second car is starting to be the only option

AlkyIROC

My car isn't street legal but needs to have a full cage because of the speeds I'm going. My full cage also has a halo bar and a-pillar bars.

Assuming you're only talking about a roll bar without a halo bar then it doesn't matter if you have a 5, 6 or 8 point, it's still just a roll bar and not a roll cage. There's nothing wrong with using a swing out door bar and even many race cars use them.

In my car, even though I need to wear a helmet, I also need roll bar padding on the tubes anywhere that my head can hit although the only tube my head could hit is the side and front of the halo bar. If you want to run any sort of roll bar in a street car without that padding, they you deserve to hit your head. Roll bar padding isn't your standard water pipe insulation padding. It's specially designed to compress and absorb the force of an impact.

Yes, hitting your bare head on it will probably still hurt like hell but it's still better than an unprotected tube.

I feel safer in my car going down the track at 140 MPH than I do driving on the highway at 60 MPH.

glennjamin48

If i did do the roll bar idea i would take out my back seats, would this allow me to move my bars further back and away from the front seats or would this cause other problems, such as being too far away to put a harness onto or messing up the symetry of the roll bars.

BobItzaboy

I know the feeling about wanting a cage. I just went through one heck of an accident in a vehicle of mine last March (Not the Camaro though, my truck- its lowered). I was fortunate in only one way, it was a motorcylcle that hit me headon and not a car so I came out fairly unscaved with $10,300 damage to my truck- He died. Bastard.(felt like adding that- I am still pissed and could kick him)

Anyways, had that been a car that caught me on my front left fender/ a-pillar head on (I was approaching a corner in the outside of the curve) A roll cage support bar near the a-pilar and door would have protected me much better with one more layer of reinforcement before colapsing onto my legs and body and such.

Stuff happens to the best of us, you never know. Some call it paraniod, I call it erring on the safe side if you have the money and resourse then do it. I always talked about have one in my daily drivers far before I was ever in an accident- I am not going to risk a second time not doing it. I put a cage in my truck-albeit, not a full cage. It is clear enough for head room with the seatbelts and seats I have, It is very hard to make contact with the bar as long as you are harnesses in, I have to strech up and tilt my head back angled to the left rear to barely touch it with my head hard against the soft headrest- and I am 6'4". Anyways, since it is a daily driver, I opted not to put door bars in!!!! SO egress is not a problem. I have the front and rear loops + halo- good enough and far better than nothing.the dside to side distance of those front and rear loops (aka width of the door) is far narrower than the front of any car from a direct side impact-sooo- chances are real good it would hit one, the other or both loop bars. I do not feel a door ar is manditory. The loop bars are plated to the floorboard of the cab as well as the frame. That gives me adequate front to rear support and boxing( SFC's on a 3rd gen will in essence do the same thing.)


Again, its not a full cage, but the added protection is far better than nothing and it is easy still to get in and out of. Pic of cage in truck- http://www.fullsizechevy.com/gallery...hp?photo=26774

glennjamin48

Nice cage the roll bars i want to put in are these...are they any good.. http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1106

blyth18md

Im concerned about how much wiggle room you are going to have to place the bars far enough away from your head with a prebent setup, your likely better off having someone fab at least the mainhoop to tuck as close to the interior panels of the car as possible.

And as I stated before youre going to want a seat/belt stepup that wont let your head slap off of any bars. The problem with that is that if you get in a rollover situation, youre toast because you wont have the mobility to bend that you would with a standard 3-point belt.

8-point cage really isn't your best solution on the street.

BobItzaboy

I wold personally opt for what I did doing a S&W 10pt cage without the sidebars, but use SFC's underneath for the for and aft bracing. S&W rollbatrs are identical to what Spohn sells in the 8pt. You can get an S&W 10pt cage in ERS tubing is $250.

Part number: 11-1513


10 Point Roll Cage 1982-1992 Camaro & Firebird, 1-5/8" x .134" wall EWS tubing, Photo is for clarification purpose only. Actual part may vary. Price : US$249.95

5th one down on this page- http://www.swracecars.com/shopdispla...cts.asp?page=2

19doug90

S&w puts together some nice kits. If you put in a cage you should be wearing a harness and strapped in tight enough that youre not going to move enough that you would hit your head on the bars in a crash.

as far aas these cars being safe these cars are EXTREMELY safe in my books. Take a new honda that can claim to be as safe as they like, but if you get smoked in a 2200 pound car i dont care if theres two dozen air bags youre still in a lot of trouble. In a 3600 pound car....well lets just say that a user on this board posted pictures of getting hit square in the drivers side door by a dump truck goign like 30. I dont think he even stayed overnight in the hospital, was back out real quick with only a couple scratches and bruises. I feel very safe in my car sheerly for the amount of metal i have to protect me.

Shagwell

a few things to be said here;
one - unless you're main hopp is poorly designed(doesn't fit the car properly) then your kneck would be broke before your head ever went back far enough to contact it(provided you're not riding ghetto sytle, laying in the back seat, which in itself is severly unsafe)
two - if you have a cage, you are required to have a harness by all sanctioning bodies. Although a harness may sound like a good idea, climb in and out a few times a day while going through the hassle of buckling/unbuckling/adjusting, it gets very old, very fast, and deffinitley isn't popular on a date.
three - a swing out door bar requires a cage. You have to have pillar pipes to have a solid attachment point for the "hinge". There's nothing else there with much strength to tie to. Plus, this is yet another object to get annoying while getting in/out of the car.
four(lastly) - yes, you might as well remove the rear seat. If safety is your concern, then you should never have a passenger in the back seat of a car with a roll bar. The cross pipe or main hoop can easily be the stopping point of a passenger's head in the event of a collision, thus if not killed on impact, possibly a worse life than simply having died.

Bottom line, the front end is going to contact that trucks' tires long before you're going to see the rear bumper, and if the front folds enough to allow the windshield to contact said bumper the motor is already in you lap, which a roll bar can't do much to stop. To negate this, you would need a full cage w/ pillar pipes and a cross bar behind the dash, thus kiss you a/c and several other accessories goodbye w/o some major custom fabrication and $. Again, if you hit that hard, you're well past a normal street/highway collision.

BobItzaboy

Shagwell, to a point I agree. Where that stops is most accidents are the result of some idiot breaching normal hwy speeds. I my case alone, I missed the first idiot and was off on my own dirt turnout when the next idiot completely overshot the entire road and came across the double yellow/my entire lane/ and ioff into my dirt turnout where he nailed me in a headon manor on my left front fender and into my a-pillar 10 feet off into the dirt already- He was doing an estimate 60 - 80mph still when he collided with me.


Now I'll say again- had that been some punk in a car? I would have been dead also. I want the cage.


As for the seatbeats and harness issue, technology has come a ways where even date night can still be a breeze clicking into 4 point harness. I installed Corbeau 2" retactor 4pt harnesses that allow you to simply slip you arms through each loop and buckle the lap belt. The shoulder points are on a retractor so they do not need to be cinched down. They also allow you to lean forward and adjust the radio, etc, but will lock up just like a standard shoulder belt on a sudden stop. They are much more comfortable also than a shoulder belt going from left to right across your chest or even a shorter persons neck.

19doug90

someone should also mention that in most places if not all using a harness is illegal. If youre not wearing the FACTORY seatbelt you can get ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt even though you are harnessed in.

you are not allowed to modify or alter factory safety equipment in any way what so ever.

this being said im still running a cage and harness in my car, just be aware of the risk youre taking

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i know there is a pic on here somewhere of this guys car who lost it flying down the highway, hit the median or something went airborn, hit a dump truck, got run over by the same, or another truck, totally destroying the car and he walked away. I think the thread name was "my t-tops saved my life" or something like that, ill try and find it.

glennjamin48

Thanks for all the help for now i think im just going to leave the car as is. You guys difinetly gave me many ideas though, now time to save up for them.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'm more concerned about any glancing blows that may send the car into a roll. you cant control the actions of other drivers out there so if they hit you and cause you to go offroad or anything of that sort that sends the car onto its roof, a roll bar would be great to have.

Or if you get sandwiched between two trucks. seen that happen many times and a roll cage/bar setup could give you a little room for safety

Rare accidents/incidents i know, but you gotta look at all possibilities

emory 4-4-2

in a one car rollover or when pinned between two vehicles, a roll cage would be good. in all other cases, are they? i am not "mr factory suckup" but they build newer cars to crumple on impact to absorb energy. that's why unibody cars don't have subframe connectors stock.

the cages we are discussing are for drag racing. in that context, how many errant minivans are gonna t-bone you or hit you head on at 60 mph? people like to talk about nascar drivers racing at 200 mph door to door. yeah, and they are all highly trained drivers going in the same direction doing the same thing. there are no idiots on cell phones or turned around talking to their kids.

yes, there are rare accidents, but they happen in racing too. that's how rule changes happen. the initial response to this thread was obviously callous, but we do need to simply build cars that handle better, learn to drive better, and be more observant of other drivers. being a little more pious can't hurt either.

i had been considering a cage for my car after a coworker was killed by a drunk driver. he had just pulled into the intersection and was t-boned at 60-80 mph on his side of the car. he died instantly. would a cage have saved him? i believe there are worse things than death.

BobItzaboy

Easy to think till you've been there. A friend of mine is very good friends with Sam Schmit Former Indy driver and now quadriplegic from a terrible crash with the wall. I have met him and know alot about him. I can tell you I have never ween a more greatful person to be alive from what Cliff has told me about him. His daily quests and business ventures are remarkable and he trives on them in thankfulness to be alive. Dead? Or still alive and experiencing life- watching you children grow, them knowing you, you still having a chance to function yes in limited capacity?, but you are here. you can always be dead, you can not always be alive. I would take Sams condition and state of mind over death any day. I have sat and chatted with his daughters Savana and Spencer and his wife and I can tell you they are very happy people, His daughters love him. Matter of fact, his oldest which is a think about 10 yrs old just amazed me how articulate a 10 year old can be. I could see right away the time they spend with their children so obviously his life is not so debilitating that his family is neglected. What a role model.


http://www.samschmidtmotorsports.com...hp?click=about

a1990camarors

Well i guess its time too tell my story < i hate this story lol. When i was 16 with my first camaro i had a 8 point cage in it was sliding around corners one day bc it was wet outside and i thought it was cool well lets just say i got t-boned by a telephone poll in my opinion the cage saved the car from the junkyard and i did hit my head on the bar but it was padded it did hurt not going too lie but nothing life threating I was probably more in threat from wiplash then the bar. I would suggest the cage ive always liked them just extra foam anywhere u could hit it are just custom make ur cage where its out of the way.

s10man04

I got a uni-body car that I have been racing circle track with for 3 years. It has a full cage along with 5pt harness, racing seat, and window net. I have had a car drive up my quarter, onto my roof, back down the a-pillar and down off the fender. Another time I got t-bone by a car that lost it in the corner and came down the track and nailed me. If you look down the window line of my car, the b-post and doors are clearly bent inward. I have never even gotten sore from having a car bounce off of me. I have already designed a cage for my TA in my 3-d modeling program, I’m just waiting till spring to get it bent up and installed.

Another thing I felt I should mention is that when mounting the shoulder belt in a 4 or 5 point harness, make should they come through the seat and mount parallel or slightly higher. If they come through the seat and go downward towards the floor to mount, upon impact, the harness will put a compression type force on your spine.

Shagwell