Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Well this is my first contributuion to this forum. I recently had my chassis done at a place called Precision Chassis. Everything turned out very good and I have to get some better pics but here's what I have for now. Hopefully this will stiffen up my chassis for now. Notice how the ground clearence wasn't effected. There actually way above the exhaust. Let me know what you think.

Phase 1 is the cage and SF connectors. Phase 2 will be Drag bar, LCA's, panhard, Drive shaft and new 9 inch.

I have some more pictures of the cage comming.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Tied into the seat frame structure and added tabs for the 5 point harness mounted on the frame connector.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

first pic, what is the bar welded to? a piece of tube welded to the sfc? Doesnt that need to be on a 6x6 plate, since its a unibody car?

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Looks like it's directly welded to part of the SFC so no it doesn't have to be welded to a base plate like you'd use on a sheet metal part. This looks like a very clean and well thought out install and having the SFCs tie into the floor structure like that makes them even more effective.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

The main hoop, rear deck bars and front kicker down bars need to be on plates.

I have added frame down the two sides of the car so the tunnel bars are welded directly to the new frame connectors for 100% strength.

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Wow that is some really nice work. I would say your car is in good hands with thoes guys.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

ahh, that makes sense, didnt think of that, looks good!

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

would you be willing to measure the height of your roll bar for me? I'm installing my cage now and don't have a headliner to mock up, so I don't know how high to make the roll bar. thanks in advanced

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

I will take a measurement when I get home for you. My car is a hardtop. If yours is a T-top I believe it will be higher in mine. You also need to know if you will be mounting it to the same location on the floor as me.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Interesting build. I'd like to see full underbody pictures of the SFC's. As well as some bigger interior overhead shots. Subscribed.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Mine is a hardtop also. We cut the rear seat mounts out and I'm putting my roll bar on the raised hump where the rear seats used to mount. It's kinda hard to tell where your is based on the pictures. Either way if you can measure it from the floor and tell me where your measurement was taken in reference to. I can use that to get a better idea as to where to install mine.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Okay, N/P. I am also going to post up the rest of the pics this weekend. We're looking at 12-20 inches of snow so I don't if I can get good ones. I am gonna crank up the heat and try to get it painted as well.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

This is the only overhead shot I have right now.




Here is another preliminary shot. Everything looks real bad right now because it's unpainted and the interior is dissasembled.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

welds look great, bars look good. the front connection tie to the SFC is a good thing to do. i too did my own thru floor subframes like urs but i didnt set it up to be tied into my roll bar that i have now, bc i didnt think i would do a 8pt roll bar.

the rear bars are mounted at the correct spot, i see too many ppl mounting hem farther back and really the strongest spot is where yours are and that where i put mine. the only negative thing i have to say is that i hate the rear bars. i think they are retarded ugly. otherwise everything else is nice.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Fast 383 I notice your rear bars come a bit passed their mounting point and slightly angle towards their mounting point whereas customblackbird's setup has the bars straight. How does this reflect towards strength and bracing. I understand he has no rear seats and you do, but why the angle towards its mounting point? Unless its camera trickery?

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Well, The guy who put the cage in is a well know chassis builder from a company called Precission Chassis. He did the work on Jeff M's cars (RadialTireKing) and thats why I ended up there. His shop was full of Top Alcohole Dragsters and pro mod cars and all kinds of wild stuff. Probably a little to qualified for my car to be honest.

I have to agree that I don't care for the agressive bends in the rear bars. IT doesn't look as good as them being straight. However, They were pro street bars from the S+W kit which were meant to run into the trunk well. We both agreed that they should be re-bent to better suit the structure. HE said that this would be the best way because it would have maximum backseat clearence for passengers heads and the bars would be closest to the shocks.

There is a secret reason they are like that as well.

I am possibly planning to mini tub the car in the future.

So they don't look great but there is a few differnet reason they are like that. they serve a lot of purpose lets say.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

before



after mini tub and rear seat still fits in.

kens86

Your in good hands at pricision. That's probaly where i'm going to take mine to convert my 8pt bar to a cage. Jeff has had his cage for a while now.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thats fine that u have secret agendas and planned that into the mods uve done. but MAX back seat clearance is NOT something that i would be planning into a roll bar build. you shouldnt EVER have anyone in the back seat of a car with a roll bar. even a minor accident means death. a roll bar covered in roll bar padding will still shatter bones/skulls easily.

not to mention that your cross bar is pretty far back in the pics and even with a 5pt racing harness they ppl would still prob hit that and die that way. 2 things that shouldnt ever be considered in a roll bar installation would be back seat room for passengers and room in general lol. its a pain in the A$$ to get into the back of my car with my roll bar to get anything. not to mention you trying to get ppl back there is just plane stupid.

i would tear them out and run straight bars for maximum integrity and forget the idea of passengers unless u like playing with other ppls lives, just a thought.

otherwise the rest of the car looks good. they seem to do some quality work, and well thought out (except the rear bars)

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Wow, it sure is a good thing I posted this here. Just think, I spoke to S+W about this. They sold me the "pro street" rear bars to keep use of the back seat and then had it built by a talented true professional chassis builder and neither of them thought to mention that the set up could kill people. Good thing I ran into a "guy on the message board" to offer a real opionin.....maybe your just more qualified than they are? is that it?



Keeping the back seat in my car is a high priority of mine. Mainly for appearence.

Thanks for your opinions. All are welcome. However, at this time, I am going to side with my Chassis builder on this one and assume the car will work just fine.

I'll make sure to PM you for some more tips on how not to kill people

MotorMouth

All it takes is that one time being in the wrong place. I would agree that your setup would not be safe for passengers. The crossbar behind the seat is just asking for trouble if someone is back there and a collision from behind happens. As far as saying no passengers should ride in a vehicle with roll bars I don't know. The last time I looked and road in a Jeep they have roll bars. But the important factor that needs to be taken into account is the easy access to the rear with them inplace. People need to be able to exit the vehicle as fast as possible.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

S and W will sell you what ever they can. It's not up to them to decide what you do with your car and that roll cage wasn't designed for passengers unless NHRA the 8.50 cert accepts 4 people in the car. It's meant for your safety only. I have the back seat in my car for athestics too. I just wouldn't put anyone back there. How would they get back there anyways since the front seat needs to be bolted to the crossbar to be NHRA legal. I guess they could climb in from the hatch.

Nice car btw.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

first off u never stated that u WERENT going to run rear passenders and when most ppl refer to keeping the back seat for max clearance is so passengers can ride, you wouldnt believe how many ppl try to do this. I like how i recieved the email notification about what YOU originally wrote and im glad u edited your original post... u PU$$Y!

original post
"Your a complete idiot. I never said I was putting people in the back of it at any point. I just want to keep the back seat in the car because it belongs there.

My cage was built by a true professional and a very well known name in the racing industry. This job was just a break from building Pro Mod cars and dragsters for the builder. I'm sure this cage will be highly effective and serve it's purpose.

Thanks for your opinion but i will pass on all your advise. I have been racing and building cars for 15 years. This is my forth car that I have built from scratch. All of which have had roll bars and been at least 10 second cars. This summer I hope to be out with the 8 seconed S-10 that my friend and I are building with an 18* 429 on a 2 stage.

I'll make sure I PM you for some advise on how not to kill people. "

maybe you should kill yourself?

your sarcasm is not needed on the site nore are you even remotely funny. your posts are vague so instead of flipping out on someone maybe u should have been clear in the first place. im no more qualified than you are, and i dnt care how many cars uve built and how fast they are... ur still a ****!. and id gladly take your life.

and for the record i dnt care who u are or what u think you kno, a BENT BAR IS NOT AS STRONG OR RIGID AS A STRAIGHT BAR! so maybe u should go back to school. instead of pushing on the HOOP like the rear bars should, some of the force is wasted in the bend bc the force wants to continue straight up.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

CBB, I doubt he's doing 10's with passengers. Its so he can still cruise with friends and family or if someone needs a ride like some hot chick or like Kim Kardashian's car broke down, now his buddy gets in the back and he gets nice big butt up front. See

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Okay so you come on here with the opinion of a Nascar Chassis builder and say my rear bars are "retarded ugly."

I agree with you that I don't love them. But list 5 different reason that we purposely bent them that way.

That wasn't good enough. Then you post a whole bunch more of your non experienced opinions about how you would tear the bars out and run them differently because there is no integrity in them and someone is also going to die back there. You made it a point to basicly call me a killer in 4 different setences. Well, trust me, no ones dying. lol

I'm glad you posted that origanal response. Thats what I was thinking at first. But than I cooled down and realized that the internet is full of know-it-all D-bags who get there hands on a $350 mig welder and than become the Chassis authority after there first and only cage. Thats when it dawned on me that if S+W's off the shelf kit and Precision Chassis's quality build didn't come with any disclosers about people dying than I shouldn't be concerned.

Now, I ask you a question. How exactly are you gonna give me grief about a bend in my bars when....YOU HAVE A BEND IN YOURS! Are you telling me that your bend is okay? but mine is not?

What do you think every car that isn't a hatch back runs? 90% of G-bodys, Chevelles, Novas, and all other Pre 1980's cars have curved bars that run through the rear speaker deck. Would you like me to post up a whole bunch of pictures? Would you like me to post up the link to the Chassis companys webites where you can see that they go out the door with bends in the rear bars?

Are you honestly that serious about a straight bar being stronger than a curved one? Are you telling me that my Chassis is going to twist, launch funny or not certify with SFI to 8.50?

What are you trying to tell me?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

no this is what im talking about, a simple drive down the street with 3 ppl in the car and suddenly BAM he gets hit from the side from an old lady who ran a stop sign. even a 30mph hit will most likely kill the person in the back seat. putting someone in the back of the car while driving on the street is the most dangerous situation, theres too many variables to consider.

a 30mph crash can be fatal, a 25mph crash can be fatal, it only takes one time at the right speed and to be at the right angle to push someones skull into that hoop/rear bar, to to mention there chest hitting the cross bar. its really not that hard to understand, why risk it when something minimal can cause serious injury. Instead its safer to say, roll bar means no back seat occupants.

Fast 383, calling the rear bars ugly does not mean they are ineffective. I KNO those bars work, its a matter of preference about the looks. but also creating SHARP bends in a tube will affect integrity. my 15 degree bend is nothing compared to your 90+ degree bend.

I wasnt calling u a killer i was stating that no one should be in the back with a roll bar, if u did decide to let ppl in in the back then i stated that u would be playing with there lives. U never stated that u WERENT gona run rear passengers therefore i STATED a saftey PRECAUTION and why not to run ppl in the back.

Did S&W and precision state that its safe to run rear passengers in the back with there roll bar setups? thats the ONLY thing im trying to get at! if your not gona run rear passengers then fine, end of discussion. my point was to quickly dissmiss any ideas of rear passengers in a roll bar setup, bc ppl WILL try to run rear passengers with one. so its easier to dismiss the idea completely before they get the idea that it might be okay.

the rear bars are fine, ive seen them on many cars. i kno they will do there job. im not saying that the bend in your bars has ruined the roll bars integrity, but there is a slight loss in the rigidy of the bar with a bend in it, the strength suffers further with more radical of a bend. Point being that the bend in your bar isnt enough to affect the bars integrity enough to cause any issues with the roll bars strength, and your chassis will not twist... i never said your car was gona twist. SFC is sufficent enough for most cars running 11s and the added leverage of a roll bar adds greater strength to the chassis.

all im saying is that i didnt like the way your rear bars looked, they will work fine but just not the best looking setup. i then stated that running rear passengers is a nono, now that uve stated your not running rear passengers then the subject is mute, but it will serve others who will search and find this thread and will realize that rear passengers is not a good idea. bc most of the ppl out there are the ones with the 350$ mig welder.

now i didnt read 5 reasons for the rear bars, i read,(1.) max clearance for the rear passengers from the guys at precision (which is scary that they would even consider it) (2.) car might be mini tubbed, (3.) there is a secret reason... thats all i got. You even stated that you both agreed that the bars will be "REBENT TO BETTER SUIT THE STRUCTURE"... assuming what exactly? that the design of the bar (bend) is not the greatest and that u want a better looking bar as far as appearances, or that rebent bar with less of a bend would better suit the structure and be stronger?

the fact that u both agreed on rebending the rear bars has already proven my point in both of my reasons 1. better looking than a aggressive 90degree bend, 2.) a rebent bar with less of a bend will better suit the structure and be stronger. applying a force to a straight bar in the direction of the straight bar will provide the strongest design. no bend means no place for deflection. so when u compare your 90degree bend to a straight bar... then yes your bar is weaker, as mine would be also but not as much as yours due to the aggressive bend yours has. its simple geometry. pushing at the base of your bar upwards would push the part that connects to the hoop into the hoop. with your bend (due to how much of a bend it is) as the force is increased the bar will be weaker at the bend due to the angles in which the forces will be applied. this will cause the bend to defect causing the 2 mount points to move in on eachother causing the bend to push outward (therefore increasing the bend, same act as the 2 mounting points folding in on eachother)

the main hoop is the main structure as the door bars, trans tunnel bars, rear bars attach to it, this creates a triangle structure using the hoop as the neutral point, as the chassis flexes the bars push and pull on the main hoop, these forces will compress or expand out depending on the force causing the door bars/rear bars to push on the hoop or pull on the hoop. the Triangle design is the one of the strongest geometric forms. now you throw a large sharp bend into the picture under the same forces as stated before. this creates the weak point in which i was describing before.

look at 1RBADZ28s rear bars, they are straight. in a drag racing situation u stomp the gas, u lift the front tires and the rear squats. what forces are being applied onto the rear bars? they would be pushing against the hoop, a bend in this bar is not as effective as a straight bar.

and by nascar chassis builder opinion u mean... "i would tear them out and run straight bars for maximum integrity" thats the only post i made about the structual integrity of your roll bar. u my friend need to relax since 98% of my post was regarding the saftey factor of rear passengers with a roll bar. this was before you stated you werent going to run rear passengers, now that ur not i have nothing else to say on that matter.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

Whew, thank god. lol


Okay, lets let it rest. I'm not going to diagnose 6 paragraphs of how a triangle works. lol

Here it is. Your bars are better than mine.








But I still gotta back seat.....and you dont!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

again your sarcasm is better suited for chucky cheese as it reflects your intellegence. u might have back seats but ur rear bars look like they have downsyndrome and your seats add 15lbs that i dnt have and they will never be used. something about a roll bar and back seats just screammssss BAD A$$$$$$$ to me!! ha

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

My bars are straight, I am minitubbed and I have a back seat.

kens86

Wow where is this thread going. It was a good start.

RED_DRAGON_85

too many internet experts