What is stronger/better? Considering that a CE 8-pt roll bar is cheaper than SFCs, why shouldn't I go with a 8-pt roll bar instead?

Sure, with a harness bar on them, it restricts rear seat access & basically a danger to rear seat passengers. But lets say there is no rear seat. How many of us use it anyways? Not many, unless we REALLY need to.

With a roll bar, you get a harness mount (for those that want them...Chassis stiffening....And rollover/impact protection.

I'm not sure I see any downside to getting a roll bar instead of SFCs. Someone tell me if I'm wrong here & there is something I haven't thought of.

 

I've thought about the same thing - I'm ultimately going to go with both, but as with most things, price is usually king - I honestly didn't know the cages were cheaper than the SFCs.

 

SFC first I say, but a cage completes it.

 

paying to install the cage/bar will bring the cost much higher than the SFC would be, installed as well.

suck it up and buy a set of SFC's already

 

Show a link where a cage would be cheaper than a set of SFC?

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CEE-3130-K/

price is close, but still has to be installed

 

That kit looks pretty good, although I'd probably delete the 2 points inward of the main hoop. Installation aside ('cause you're gonna have it on both), its impressive that you can buy a complete, pre-bent cage for the same (or less) than what you can buy SFCs for. Seems a little odd, huh...

BTW: That main hoop in that kit is quite ugly.

 

And that is just the basic 8-pt cage. I found a way to buy it even cheaper & get the door bars as the easier access ones (not track legal, but i don't run tracks so no worries) & using rear seat saver bars (if a person wanted to save their rear seat). For that matter.....I could still piece it together cheaper & use standard rear bars since they are simply straight tubing & could be sourced locally. Just gotta know what to buy when you do.

Yes, a bar will SFCs is the best all-around option, but not REALLY required to be done. But it is hard to spend more $ for less material(SFCs).

 

if i ever put a bar/cage in a car thats street driven, SCREW door bars, easyier access style or not, they both suck. I would go this route


costs more, but makes access much easier, is plently strong, anda door bar can still be added after if needed. (this is the Polly motorsports 86 Trans Am)

 

I can say the Alston SFC I got from Doug Herbert Racing was worth $190 shipped. They have some real design to them, not just two straight bars.

 

The Jeg's 8-pt cage is $30 cheaper, for the same sized tubing & wall thickness. 1 3/4" x .134 wall

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/940303K/10002/-1
And I'd install SFCs or the cage myself, since I'm certified to weld. Well, technically I'm not anymore, since the license has expired, but that it really just a piece of paper.

This these are the door bars I was talking about. No way I'd do the standard bar on the street. I'd add a short piece of tubing under that door bar, to the corner where it meets the mounting plate for the main hoop.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/940008/10002/-1

 

Jegster 943303K - Jegster ''GM'' Roll Cage Kits Details
GM 1955-57 Chevy

 

Still would like one of these myself, as it would work better with my notch. Even though all folks can do is bitch that its not race ready and it has to be unsafe.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...e-4-point.html

 

what Gumby said, that cage you linked to Stephen is for a tri-five chevy.

 

A rollbar/cage is firstly designed to protect the driver. If all you're after is a basic 6 or 8 point roll bar, you need the SFC. The basic roll bar doesn't tie the front and rear sub frames together like the SFC will do. Although the rollbar will add some stiffness to the car, the floor will still bend and flex.

Going to a full cage, you'll need more than the basic cage before you can eliminate the SFC. Until the cage is designed to completely replace the factory frame structure, you'll still need SFC. If you're following this thread, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...ast-8-off.html you'll see that even with a full cage, something still ties the front and rear subframes together to provide the body with an underside framework.

I still have the original custom made SFC installed in my car. Although I may finally change them to a design similar to the above thread, I won't run without them even though I have a full cage.

 

I posted the wrong link, but same price. Here is the correct link.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/940303K/10002/-1


I had no intention of "eliminating the SFC" from the build. But I do believe that the cage would more than suffice & work quite well, without SFCs, in a pure street car.

For a real race car like yours? Sure. You need both. But for a 99% street car? Chassis twist is not exactly a big concern, otherwise GM woulda put SFCs (even just using the convertible stamped sheet metal ones) on at the factory.

Kinda wondering how 2 flat steel bars can cost more than multiple bend tubing can too. Is it the powdercoating on SFCs, that raises their price? Since some has to be ground away for welding, then spray paint put on anyways.....Why not offer SFCs as bare steel & just let the customer spray paint the whole 2 SFCs?

 

I want to know the same - I always found that dumb - Why have something powdercoated that has to be ground down/off in some areas to be welded, then spray painted back over?? I'd prefer bare steel ones, at a discounted rate, and then I'll spray 'em myself so all the paint matches.

 

People like to bitch about things not fitting for certain things (like full-on drag race rules) but they forget that not everyone needs their stuff to fit certain rules. That B4C style would be perfectly in in a street car.

 

Ha! Yeah right. Tell that to first and second gen owners who have more of a real frame than our third gens have. SFC is the first thing to install in a car that uses sheet metal to join the front and rear clips.

Factories build cars to suit a wide range of driving styles however the third gens were never factory made for aggressive driving styles that require SFC. It also comes down to a cost figure. Think about how much better a wiring harness would work if it had an inch more wire. 1 inch of wire in 500,000 cars is a lot more wire to buy. Adding in extras such as SFC increase the cost of the vehicle production considerably so if they can build it cheaper, they will. If third gens were assembly line built for all out performance, they sure wouldn't have received the 7.5" 10 bolt under them. No true performance means SFC are not a major priority to a production car.

That doesn't mean they don't need them. Anyone who wants to improve the performance or handling in their car needs to upgrade to better options. To reduce body flexing and twisting, SFC are the first thing that should be installed. They physically join the front and rear subframes.

A 6 point rollbar will add some rigidity however, it's welded to steel plates that are welded to sheetmetal that is nowhere near the subframes. A rollbar is designed to protect the driver, not improve the car's chassis/frame. At least not until you start getting close to a full tube chassis but by then, the car's original body has little to do with structural integrity.

 

And cheesy spot welds.......

 

Really? Then why were they selected for the IROC series? Sounds like a "aggressive driving style" to me.

I absolutely agree there.

While *WE* see SFCs as a "performance part", they also serve well as not just performance from a drag racing/autocross/road racing standpoint, but also in a cars ability to dodge dogs running across the road. Avoiding accidents. After all, the quicker a car will respond to driver input, the quicker it be able to avoid an accident. Not to mention that, in some regard, it does provide protection for the passengers, because it helps the passenger compartment resist crumpling.

Does that make a SFC+roll cage car almost a "semi" tube chassis car?

I fully agree that both are the best option. But I still have to question why SFCs cost more, considering that, like the 8-pt cage, is not only more material but even just the main hoop, has more work in bending to it. Argument was made that more roll bars/cages are sold than SFCs. I find that hard to swallow. There are a LOT of street cars with SFCs. How many race cars (drag/autocross/road race) even have roll bars/cages? I would love to see a manufacturer actually say "I sold X # of SFCs last year." & compare that to another that said "I sold X # of roll bars/cages last year." Even if 1 roll bar/cage fit multiple chassis's, I think we'd be surprised to see SFCs>roll bar/cages.

 

i dont see why you dont get this yet. Your average set of SFC's, from any manufacturer, require bending, cutting, welding, brackets being fabbed/bent/wedled, holes drilled, then cleaning and powdercoating. That takes much more time than just cutting a couple bars to length, and making 4 quick bends on 1 piece of tubing, which takes no time at all since its done with a CNC machine, and nothing is welded, cleaned or coated with anything. Is it that hard to see why SFC's cost what they do?

 

Ask as I asked before....Why not offer the powdercoating as an extra? Gotta grind some away anyways & spray paint that section, so why not just sell them bare & spray paint the whole thing?

I get it, sorta. Don't think I don't. But one thing is for certain. You are paying more $, to buy less material.

You think SFCs are bent by hand? And not all SFCs are even bent. Some are "stacked" pieces, just welded together. It would not surprise me one single bit, to find out the SFCs are machine welded too, not by hand.

Cat backs are very much the same. Computer controlled & automated to twist the pie to where it needs to bend, then bent...By the same machine. Operator puts in a X" piece of pipe & the machine does the rest.

 

im pretty sure the site sponsors, spohn UMI, BMR, dont have machines to weld their parts together, they are all dont by hand. could be wrong, buit i doubt it.

not all have the main tubes bent, but some do. Im sure if you called and asked nicely, you could get the SFC's without coating, i've managed to get a few custom details done with a simple PM or call. However, i would prefer the entire part to the coated, then just remove what i need to weld, since the powder is much tougher than paint and it will hold up better overall if the places you cant get to after they are installed are already coated with powder.

 

If you want cheap unpainted SFC, make your own. It's not hard to do. Mine were made the second week I owned the car. Some 2x2 square tubing is cheap.

 

Correct, all our welding is done by hand and I am sure the others are the same.

 

Just to put powder coating in perspective, I contacted UMI's Ryan Kirkwood, who was good enough to respond and who offered the following take:

"The cost is tough because it depends on a few things. For us for example we run black and red powder coat all day everyday so our cost to coat is less because it is production using the same color. Another thing to consider is the brand of powder, we use an expensive powder and a lot of others do not.

To coat a set of 3rd generation SFC's that we produce I would say the cost is $35+. We have about 10-15 minutes just in sand blasting them due to their length, then hanging and coating. After that they spend 20-30 minutes in the oven."

The cost of coating my 36mm and 24mm sway bars, including sandblasting, was $28 (by a shop that coated daily).

For the time and material involved, the cost doesn't sound exorbitant to me, but to each his own.

JamesC

 

CE SFC way cheaper than there own roll bars
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHASS...item20b2c82503

 

I've never seen those before. Interesting. I trust CE, but interesting to see one doesn't hung the passenger side floor like all the others I've seen. And no bracket of any kind on the front.

But honestly? I don't see how those could fit. If the c-brackets are for the rear...Why is there an angle right in front of them? Wouldn't the angle put those through a floor or hanging down with a gap between those & the floor?

 

I actually came across these after I purchased some from UMI during a sale they had( I must admit I like my UMI SFC). I to have been wanting a street friendly roll cage but I have kids that ride in the back occasionally so its kinda a now brainer for me not to right now. Definetly must have the drop down door bars though

 

i dont think thats the right picture, but im pretty sure they are the ones that require you to cut the floor up to install, thats why they are so cheap.

 

why not just get both...
lots of good info in this thread tho bookmarked a couple links..haha

 

I want both(eventually). I just have a hard time letting go of more money for less. Seems like they could be quite a bit cheaper, if the whole "about 10-15 minutes just in sand blasting them due to their length, then hanging and coating. After that they spend 20-30 minutes in the oven" step was eliminated & only offered as an option. I'd rather just spray paint/POR-15/undercoat the item myself.

I know companies do have to profit from their products, I just don't agree when some companies (just a general example) profit over 100%.

 

I have both

 

Nice work!

 

My Spohn sfc's were bare when I got them. I wish I had gotten them coated, hard to paint up and behind the backside of them after they're installed, so they get pretty rusty up there.