uneven fender heights
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
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From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
uneven fender heights
I've noticed that my front end is uneven from drive to passenger side. I noticed this last year but being I was going to rebuild the front end I figure it would correct the issue. Well I just finished replacing the steering inner,outer,and center links. I also installed Founders strut mounts,KYB Struts and UMI A-arms. I reused my Hotchkis #1903 1" lowering springs with new spring isolators. I checked them when they were out of the car and they were both the same height.
So before I rebuilt the front end from the ground to top center of the fender opening was 26.5" on the drivers side and 27" on the passenger side(rear of the car is about 28 1/4" on both sides). After the front end rebuild I get the same measurements. I took a look under the car and the UMI a-arm bump stop is just touching the K-member on the drivers side but is about 1/2" away on the passengers side. I just have one old 2 1/4" sleeved end link in on the passenger side..It looks to be having the sway bar running uphill slightly with a bit of what looks to be a load on the end link. I will be removing it and replacing it with ES 2" endlinks to correct the angle and remove the pressure...( don't think the end link is causing the issue but figured I'd fill in all the details)
Any idea whats causing the 1/2" driver to passenger ride height difference????
So before I rebuilt the front end from the ground to top center of the fender opening was 26.5" on the drivers side and 27" on the passenger side(rear of the car is about 28 1/4" on both sides). After the front end rebuild I get the same measurements. I took a look under the car and the UMI a-arm bump stop is just touching the K-member on the drivers side but is about 1/2" away on the passengers side. I just have one old 2 1/4" sleeved end link in on the passenger side..It looks to be having the sway bar running uphill slightly with a bit of what looks to be a load on the end link. I will be removing it and replacing it with ES 2" endlinks to correct the angle and remove the pressure...( don't think the end link is causing the issue but figured I'd fill in all the details)
Any idea whats causing the 1/2" driver to passenger ride height difference????
Last edited by TPI-Formula350-; Jan 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM.
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From: East Bay Area
Car: 1984 Z28
Engine: L31
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.73
Re: uneven fender heights
I wouldnt worry at all about a 1/2" difference.
After 25 years and the addition of 460hp is bound to fatigue the chassis a bit.
If it really bothers yo that much, slightly trim the passenger spring unit your height is at 26.5". Really not worth the effort in my opinion.
Do you have SFC's?
After 25 years and the addition of 460hp is bound to fatigue the chassis a bit.
If it really bothers yo that much, slightly trim the passenger spring unit your height is at 26.5". Really not worth the effort in my opinion.
Do you have SFC's?
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Re: uneven fender heights
I wouldnt worry at all about a 1/2" difference.
After 25 years and the addition of 460hp is bound to fatigue the chassis a bit.
If it really bothers yo that much, slightly trim the passenger spring unit your height is at 26.5". Really not worth the effort in my opinion.
Do you have SFC's?
After 25 years and the addition of 460hp is bound to fatigue the chassis a bit.
If it really bothers yo that much, slightly trim the passenger spring unit your height is at 26.5". Really not worth the effort in my opinion.
Do you have SFC's?
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Danville, IN
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Engine: LS1
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: Strange 12 Bolt, 3.42
Re: uneven fender heights
Are both front springs indexed correctly and the same? Or maybe one strut is bad?
Joined: Sep 2005
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Re: uneven fender heights
I'd suggest not worrying about FENDER height just yet, and instead worry about THE CAR height.
The fender is nothing but a piece of trim. It's not "the CAR".
Make sure THE CAR sits level by measuring from a part of THE ACTUAL CAR ITSELF, such as the "frame" or the K-member. Then if the fenders aren't even, move em around by bending em and with shims and such, to align them to THE CAR.
The fender is nothing but a piece of trim. It's not "the CAR".
Make sure THE CAR sits level by measuring from a part of THE ACTUAL CAR ITSELF, such as the "frame" or the K-member. Then if the fenders aren't even, move em around by bending em and with shims and such, to align them to THE CAR.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Re: uneven fender heights
I'd suggest not worrying about FENDER height just yet, and instead worry about THE CAR height.
The fender is nothing but a piece of trim. It's not "the CAR".
Make sure THE CAR sits level by measuring from a part of THE ACTUAL CAR ITSELF, such as the "frame" or the K-member. Then if the fenders aren't even, move em around by bending em and with shims and such, to align them to THE CAR.
The fender is nothing but a piece of trim. It's not "the CAR".
Make sure THE CAR sits level by measuring from a part of THE ACTUAL CAR ITSELF, such as the "frame" or the K-member. Then if the fenders aren't even, move em around by bending em and with shims and such, to align them to THE CAR.
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Re: uneven fender heights
First thing you need to do is to remove the swaybar end links entirely and check the height with the swaybar detached. you could be getting a little preload holding the passenger side up a little bit.
With that said and suggested- to go to the next step if that does not change things- you will then have a chassis that has been welded into that position because the chassis was not squared and was loaded improperly when the SFC's were welded on.
What is puzzling to me is that the rear specs are currently equal but the front specs are different. any front changes are more powerful of changes than the rear of the car is subjected to so the rear will in fact naturally want to remain more constant since its less spring rates as well as less chassis weight back there- however it will not remain equal entirely if the front is equaled in height using preload. If you preload the swaybar to get equal fronts but inducing a 1/2" droop in the RF, the diagonal RR will drop about aprox 1/8-1/4" and then not be equal. It will not drop equivilant, nor will the diagonal LR go up a 1/2" The LR will probably remain the same 28 1/4" and the RR go to about 28-28 1/8" range because of the heavier and dominating RF wheel rate decreasing and saging that side of the chassis in droop as a result in preload change settings of the swaybar.
The other possible senerio is that the SS machine SFC's you have are not holding the chassis in place rigid enough and possibly the sway bar is putting in preload and bending the chassis still. Hopefully that is the case, and not the case of the chassis perminately welded in a tweaked position.
If it IS in fact welded in a tweaked position, then this is a perfect example why I preach to everyone NOT TO weld SFC's into a car with the suspension loaded as most aftermarket vendors suggest people to do- this is what exactly can happen and cause problems when a suspension loaded is not symmetrical prior to welding in SFC's. I always preach to everyone to set the chassis flat on the suspension pickup points without the chassis loaded by the suspension. If those 4 pickup points do not sit flat on the leveled jack stands, then one must weight the chassis with extra artificial weight until the chassis is flat - and then and only then should SFC's be welded perminately in place.
Good luck to you.
Dean
With that said and suggested- to go to the next step if that does not change things- you will then have a chassis that has been welded into that position because the chassis was not squared and was loaded improperly when the SFC's were welded on.
What is puzzling to me is that the rear specs are currently equal but the front specs are different. any front changes are more powerful of changes than the rear of the car is subjected to so the rear will in fact naturally want to remain more constant since its less spring rates as well as less chassis weight back there- however it will not remain equal entirely if the front is equaled in height using preload. If you preload the swaybar to get equal fronts but inducing a 1/2" droop in the RF, the diagonal RR will drop about aprox 1/8-1/4" and then not be equal. It will not drop equivilant, nor will the diagonal LR go up a 1/2" The LR will probably remain the same 28 1/4" and the RR go to about 28-28 1/8" range because of the heavier and dominating RF wheel rate decreasing and saging that side of the chassis in droop as a result in preload change settings of the swaybar.
The other possible senerio is that the SS machine SFC's you have are not holding the chassis in place rigid enough and possibly the sway bar is putting in preload and bending the chassis still. Hopefully that is the case, and not the case of the chassis perminately welded in a tweaked position.
If it IS in fact welded in a tweaked position, then this is a perfect example why I preach to everyone NOT TO weld SFC's into a car with the suspension loaded as most aftermarket vendors suggest people to do- this is what exactly can happen and cause problems when a suspension loaded is not symmetrical prior to welding in SFC's. I always preach to everyone to set the chassis flat on the suspension pickup points without the chassis loaded by the suspension. If those 4 pickup points do not sit flat on the leveled jack stands, then one must weight the chassis with extra artificial weight until the chassis is flat - and then and only then should SFC's be welded perminately in place.
Good luck to you.
Dean
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; Jan 28, 2013 at 02:36 AM.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Re: uneven fender heights
First thing you need to do is to remove the swaybar end links entirely and check the height with the swaybar detached. you could be getting a little preload holding the passenger side up a little bit.
With that said and suggested- to go to the next step if that does not change things- you will then have a chassis that has been welded into that position because the chassis was not squared and was loaded improperly when the SFC's were welded on.
What is puzzling to me is that the rear specs are currently equal but the front specs are different. any front changes are more powerful of changes than the rear of the car is subjected to so the rear will in fact naturally want to remain more constant since its less spring rates as well as less chassis weight back there- however it will not remain equal entirely if the front is equaled in height using preload. If you preload the swaybar to get equal fronts but inducing a 1/2" droop in the RF, the diagonal RR will drop about aprox 1/8-1/4" and then not be equal. It will not drop equivilant, nor will the diagonal LR go up a 1/2" The LR will probably remain the same 28 1/4" and the RR go to about 28-28 1/8" range because of the heavier and dominating RF wheel rate decreasing and saging that side of the chassis in droop as a result in preload change settings of the swaybar.
The other possible senerio is that the SS machine SFC's you have are not holding the chassis in place rigid enough and possibly the sway bar is putting in preload and bending the chassis still. Hopefully that is the case, and not the case of the chassis perminately welded in a tweaked position.
If it IS in fact welded in a tweaked position, then this is a perfect example why I preach to everyone NOT TO weld SFC's into a car with the suspension loaded as most aftermarket vendors suggest people to do- this is what exactly can happen and cause problems when a suspension loaded is not symmetrical prior to welding in SFC's. I always preach to everyone to set the chassis flat on the suspension pickup points without the chassis loaded by the suspension. If those 4 pickup points do not sit flat on the leveled jack stands, then one must weight the chassis with extra artificial weight until the chassis is flat - and then and only then should SFC's be welded perminately in place.
Good luck to you.
Dean
With that said and suggested- to go to the next step if that does not change things- you will then have a chassis that has been welded into that position because the chassis was not squared and was loaded improperly when the SFC's were welded on.
What is puzzling to me is that the rear specs are currently equal but the front specs are different. any front changes are more powerful of changes than the rear of the car is subjected to so the rear will in fact naturally want to remain more constant since its less spring rates as well as less chassis weight back there- however it will not remain equal entirely if the front is equaled in height using preload. If you preload the swaybar to get equal fronts but inducing a 1/2" droop in the RF, the diagonal RR will drop about aprox 1/8-1/4" and then not be equal. It will not drop equivilant, nor will the diagonal LR go up a 1/2" The LR will probably remain the same 28 1/4" and the RR go to about 28-28 1/8" range because of the heavier and dominating RF wheel rate decreasing and saging that side of the chassis in droop as a result in preload change settings of the swaybar.
The other possible senerio is that the SS machine SFC's you have are not holding the chassis in place rigid enough and possibly the sway bar is putting in preload and bending the chassis still. Hopefully that is the case, and not the case of the chassis perminately welded in a tweaked position.
If it IS in fact welded in a tweaked position, then this is a perfect example why I preach to everyone NOT TO weld SFC's into a car with the suspension loaded as most aftermarket vendors suggest people to do- this is what exactly can happen and cause problems when a suspension loaded is not symmetrical prior to welding in SFC's. I always preach to everyone to set the chassis flat on the suspension pickup points without the chassis loaded by the suspension. If those 4 pickup points do not sit flat on the leveled jack stands, then one must weight the chassis with extra artificial weight until the chassis is flat - and then and only then should SFC's be welded perminately in place.
Good luck to you.
Dean
Last edited by TPI-Formula350-; Jan 28, 2013 at 12:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 4
From: Long Island New York
Car: 89 Formula 350
Engine: Forged 385 H/C/I
Transmission: 700R4-4300 Stall-lockup
Axle/Gears: BW 9 Bolt 3:70
Re: uneven fender heights
I seem to be getting lucky. I installed 2.375" ES poly end links and the car is sitting better. My garage floor isn't perfectly level but now my front fenders height different is only 1/4"-5/16"(27" passenger 26 3/4" drivers)..... It was 1/2"-5/8"(27 1/8" passenger 26 1/2" drivers) before I installed the end links.
My rear wheel center wheel well is now 28" on both sides.
When it stops raining I'll drive it around and check measurements on the most level ground I can find. As of now I'm happy things are looking better.
My rear wheel center wheel well is now 28" on both sides.
When it stops raining I'll drive it around and check measurements on the most level ground I can find. As of now I'm happy things are looking better.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,996
Likes: 2,485
Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
Re: uneven fender heights
I had my SFCs welded on while bolted to a race car jig.
Gotta be about the best way to ensure the chassis was STRAIGHT.
Although I'm sure you could tram the car and support it a little bit here and there to square it up, and it would be just as good.
Gotta be about the best way to ensure the chassis was STRAIGHT.
Although I'm sure you could tram the car and support it a little bit here and there to square it up, and it would be just as good.
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