I am in the mood to replace my old, worn out shockers on my camaro 1991. I was thinking to get these ones Bilsteins. Here the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290910231443...S:1123&vxp=mtr

Does anyone know if they are good and what does "36MM" means ?
Are their any other brand that anyone recommends ?

/S

 

they are good shocks, the 36mm is the diameter of the shock tube

 

36mm is the diameter of the piston shaft, it's considerably thicker than on the stockers and anyh other non bilstein shock (even the konis)

 

If the piston shaft is thicker than the stock, will I have to modify the "hole" on the upper body in order to make it fit or is it just to install without any modifications ?

 

bolt in, the threads and 1st step on them are stock size

 

umm u sure about that 36mm is just shy of 1.5 inches 1.417 inches to be exact

im pretty sure thats the diam of the shock tube itself

 

what do you mean with shock tube?

Here's a pic of the fronts, they have a much larger shaft than stock.

You can see the thickness of the shaft here:

 

thats a front strut , rear shocks are nowere near that thick, i used to run them on all 4 corners till i swaped it out for a drag setup

 

I have 91 Camaro RS 3.1L

I found some others on the net and would like to get your opinion on these with some questions which I have no idea what they mean:

1. KYB "Damping Rate Adjustable Shock" Rear
-ADJUSTABLE
-AGX (What is AGX) ???

2. Lakewood "Street/Strip Drag Shocks"
-Street/Strip Drag Shocks
-50/50 Series (Meaning of 50/50) ???
-Rear w/0 in. Lift/Drop (Means what) ???


3. Koni "Externally Adjustable Sport; Twin Tube Shock Absorber; Low Pressure Gas; Rear w/0 in. Lift/Drop"

* Is it better to use same manufacturer on both front and on the rear or it does not matter?
* Is it "worth" to have adjustable shockers on the front/rear ?
* Which manufacture do you guys recommend ?
* What should one look for in a shock absorber ?

Thanks a lot !

 

Well, you're looking at two top-of-the-line shocks....Koni's and Bilsteins - I'd recommend either.. I wouldn't mix and match myself, go with the same brand on all 4 corners.

As far as adjustable struts/shocks go...I've never had them, and probably wouldn't use them anyway unless I auto-X'd or something like that occasionally, but that's just MO...you'll hear others. When it says "w/0 Lift/Drop, that means stock height springs.

 

This question comes up a lot...Search is your friend. But let me stab at this again.

Koni and Bilsteins are both the best your going to get next to going with full on AFCO's or Penske. Bilsteins are a single tube, Konis are a twin tube. Bilsteins are non-adjustable, Koni's adjust. Bilsteins are a little cheaper, can be custom valved to your exact application and are just as awesome as Koni's, albeit the adjustability. Bilsteins are also said to resist cavitation better than Koni's due to the single tube design. They are both designed as a heavier duty race shock/strut that will handle higher rate springs/lowering. If your car is stock, and drives on the street, then you won't be outdriving even a cheaper quality stock replacement kyb or tokiko and you can save the extra cash other more beneficial mods.. Beware any lower quality adjustable shocks as their accuracy of adjustment are not equivelent/accurate from shock to shock and you will get uneven dampening.

 

KYB has various product lines. Gas-adjust and GR2 are their lower end models. AGX is their higher end model. The AGX are adjustable. Their other ones are not.....As you would expect, their AGX is their most expensive choice.

Lakewood are more for the drag racers and less for the cornering people. Not too many use them here.

Koni are top of the line.

Adjustable for the front? Absolutely. Adjustable for the back? Maybe. I have Koni on front and rear and do adjust the fronts every so often. I've never adjusted the rears though. (They seem firm enough even in their full soft mode). I do however have concrete roads here with way too many potholes, divits, dividers etc. If I lived someplace with smoother blacktop roads, I'd probably adjust the rear a tiny bit firmer.

Koni and Bilstein are both lifetime warranty. Both will give you very good comfort and performance. Koni are the more aggressive of the two. They handle lowered cars better. But they also work very well on stock height (like me).

I would rank them as such (for comparison sake)
Corvette = AGX
Corvette Z51 = Bilstein
Corvette Z06 = Koni

I'm not saying that each Corvette comes with these. But rather that the difference between the shock brands is similar to the difference between Corvettes.

 

whatever you do don't buy them on ebay where you get no warranty, autozone can order you bilsteins with a lifetime warranty and just recently they can do the same with any kybs you might want to try, just my two cents

 

Not just eBay here also. The warranty is only for the original purchaser. Used shocks/struts are not covered by the warranty.

Well I am talking about Koni as that's what I own. Don't know about the other brands.

 

There has been alot of discussion in the past about Koni Vs Bilstein...and which is better.

Better is in the eye of the beholder- check statistics as to who wins more races using each in 3rd gens- I am certain the results favoring Koni's will be staggering.


However, people argue that Bilsteins have to be better than Koni's because Bilsteins are a Montube strut, and monotue design is superior to twin tube right? No not always. Not in the rare case of Koni design. Koni makes a very high end twin tube shock, unlike you cheap typical twin tube desing that has no gas pressure, Koni uses low gas pressure. We turns ou tthat alot of upper end twin tube designs also use gas pressure so what makes Koni so special? Glad you asked.

There is a reasonKoni shocks and struts cost a great bit of money- you generally get what you pay for. Bilstein has a history of only wanting to produce a montube shock or strut period. They do not like messing with twintube design- WHY? Their legacy is they were first to design the monotube gas charge shock years ago---and when they did they frowned upon all others using a simple hydraulic twintube design that was at the time the world standard. Those twintubes had no gas charge and suffered severly from foaming and airation of the oil--so wala- the monotube gas shock was born. Bilstein put all its focus on the Montube and to this day has still put its nose in the air at the twintube design- because the Monotube is what made Bilstein famous- Koni on the other had has developed both the monotube and the twintube- yes they never dropped focuas on twin tube shocks in racing applications. So why do Konis cost so much?- BECAUSE unlike other twintube gas shocks even, Koni utilizes SEPARATE VALVES FOR COMPRESSION AND REBOUND unlike anyone else. It is why they cost so much, you pay for materials, workmanship, and quality. Lets get into mechanical working of them so you understand how each work (Bilstein monotube strut Vs koni twintube strut.

For Bilstein to use a monotube strut it required the valve inside the monotube to be massive like how all monotube shocks work. The problem with a strut is it, unlike a shock, has to resist massive side loads because a strut is a suspension location devise and is critical in holing the wheel in the correct attitude- thus it takes massive lateral loads. THe problem Bilstein faced was with the massisve monotube valve inside tha the small shaft support they were putting way to much load on the variance of angle between to two different sizes of diameters. They would eventually wear froim side thrust and the gas pressure leak out, as well as the strut wobbled from wear over time. How did they fix this? They utilize a larger diameter strut shaft to make the shaft seal more in sync with the diamter of the valve inside. This kept the vertical angle load more proportioned, but the had to make the overall strut much larger and heavier- and no way for adjustment other than disassembing and revavling, then needing a new HP gas recharge....

Koni on the other had developed the unique DUAL VALVE twin tube design. What did you say? yes two valves that are separate. One for rebound valving on the the shaft base like in traditional design (which is also traditional for a typical montube adjustable shock with a standard sized shaft) and the other a fixed compression valve (fixed meaning non adjustable- yet it can be taken apart and revalved to different specs by Koni, just as Bilstein does or any other racing shock company)- but this separate compression valve is place at the base of the twin tube- at the bottom of it where the oil enters the outer tube in the compression stroke. When the oil enters the rebound stroke the compression valve is like a oneway valve and just opens passively in that direction.

How does all of this make the Koni Twintube a superior design? It allows for twice the valving space in a twin tube design. It uses just as much if not more valving space than a monotube shock becasuse the two separate discs each have theri own space for each individual comprssion valve or rebound valve flow ports. A monotube valve does both on the single disc so the disc needs to be large to hold both compression ports and rebound ports. The other advantage to this separate disc technology is the oil being force through the low ports of the isc on the twin tube Koni design aere hapopening in two different parts of the tube chamber to help disapate heat and reduce foaming- this is why Koni gets away with lower gas pressure without foaming becasue the oil is utilized more expanse in the chamber- monotubes use the same section passing back and forth through the same disc area of vavling port in one single disc- thus it needs a much higher gas pressure to resist this. Gas pressure and lateral forces on seals are a bad thing, so to keep the heat down Bilstein will valve the compression and rebound a little lower than Koni does to keep the heat down for lifetime waurantee.

In conclusion- a montube shock is lighter weight than a twin tube shock, so it is perfered in most cases, but the twin tube design like Koni will give longevity in use for street applications becase it requires less gas charge pressure- we all know that all gases eventually seep out and fade on anything moving. its just a matter of time. The higher that pressure and the more load on the deal- the more a chance of eventual fade.

With that said, shocks do not have lateral forces that struts incur. I just purchased a set of Koni yellows for another car an had both choices of monotube from Koni AND twin tube from Koni. I chose the montubes simply because of weight- I always opt for unsprung weight reductions becasue it relates directly towards ride quality. Plus- a shock is much easier to pull off and through a cheapie temporary shock on there and send out for rebuilding when needed, a strut removal for rebuild is a pretty major task and requires down time of a vehicle- I would stay with a Koni Twintube strut over Bilstein Monotube strut for that simple reason. A simple analysis of a Bilstein strut will render it is threaded together, not welded- why?- maybe for rebuild ease because they anticipate it needing alot of rebuilds? I would dsay yes- but how many of you are going to take it out a strut off the car and send it in for rebuild evers everal years to keep it optimum? does Bilsteins "lifetime wauranty" cover 80% quality rebuilds for free? or do you have to wait for a complete gas charge failure for a rebuild? I can tell you with "first hand knowledge" that I have fixed a Bilstein strut on a 3rd gen that the threads started unwinding by themself- yes first hand, not an internet rumor. What is wrong with threaded body struts on a 3rd gen? Its called steering. The strut has to twint with the wheel assembly every time you turn the steering wheel- just food for though. I would keep a Twintube welded strut on a 3rd gen- that obviously would be a Koni suggestion in twintube choice.

So know you know the why Bilstein hasd to have that massive strut rod and thus the massive seal diamteter to go with it.

 

Thanks a lot for all the tips guys but I think I have decided which ones I'm gonna buy. Unfortunately it won't be either bilstein or koni.

Since my camaro is stock I think I will go with the KYB's Gas-A-Just shocks.
It seems meaningless to pay a lot for Bilstein/Koni when I won't really "use"them. Hopefylly in the future
And also since I live in Sweden I have no other choice to buy either from ebay or from some other webshop coz to buy auto parts in Sweden are extreamly expensive.

I actually found these for a reasonable price from Car Parts Discount:

https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/aut...ml?3593=117389

What do you guys think ?

Does anyone know any good websites where I can/should buy camaro parts?

 

I have Bilsteins on my Camaro (valved to my springs) and Koni SA on my GTA.

Both are great, yet both are different... That is due to the design and also the adjustable vs. non adjustable features.

I'm all about buying something once and having it work with many different ancillary items and also not break or wear out. That is why I think the Konis are a winner for virtue of being adjustable (continuously, not set detents) to use with different springs rates, different car weights, different suspensions (aftermarket vs. stock)...

But if a set of Bilsteins is valved correctly for your application, it can be just as good. And yes you can have them revalved for other setups - just can't do it in 5 seconds like the Konis can.

 

Sonu- the misconseption of shock use is the biggest error with drivers. You are "always" using shocks
They are the only thing on the car that controls both chassis weight and tire contact. Aside from tire quality it is the second most important thing that keeps you safer and better controlled in the event of an emergency. I run Koni yellows even on a stock Mercedes luxury box. It is far safer and better responsive than the new crap shocks it came with

 

^^^ I agree 100%. I used to think Koni yellows were for people who wanted ultra stiff rides and who went autocrossing all the time......I was wrong.

I've never autocrossed. Never been to the drag strip either. Yet given the choice of all the sway bar size options, better bushings, springs, subframe connectors.....Or......Just a set of Koni struts and shocks with stock everything else, I'd choose the Koni hands down.

95% of my driving consists of driving to work on the highway and then driving home. Nothing particularly exciting. But the Konis make that regular boring drive a much more enjoyable drive.

I used to live in Canada. So I know all too well how expensive it can be with international shipping, exchange rates, and high sales taxes when the product arrives at your door. Even living in the USA now, I still wound up buying the Koni rears first and then waiting several months to buy the Koni fronts. Let's face it. They're not cheap. But they're worth every penny.

 

Me too. It's not so much that Bilstein and Koni will replace your shocks down the road with their lifetime warranties. It's that they will last a lonnnnnng time before needing to be replaced.

It's like comparing an all season tire to a slick tire. It's not that the all season has a longer mileage warranty. It's simply that I won't need to replace it for years and years.

 

I was on a crappy computer earlier- I have more I was going to add about Koni.

Koni makes both style dampers so you have a choice on alot of cars for two main reasons
1) they offer the Monotube style for the discerning driving enthuseist that doesn't mind the occational getting his hand dirty in order to adjust an lighter unsprung weigh and lower operational heat range shock that reduces fade in heavy useage- in other words it can handle the weekend road racing event (we're talking beyond autoX)

2) the Twintube Koni design that incorportes the ability to adjust the rebound (same as the Monotube) but by doing so without getting dirty or removing a shock mount- this is done through the top shaft mount dial adjuster. These are a great shock for the daly driver and weekend autox'er. They perform just as well as a Monotube under these low heat enviroments. The cost a little more, and are a little more heavy, but those expenses are at the convience that the owner can dial them into adjustment position within seconds.

What we have on 3rd gens? We have Monotube rears (remove to adjust) and we have a hearty Twin tube Dual separate valving disc design strut fro the front application to withstand the lateral suspension load force the strut has to endure, and also having the ease to adjust with the twintube style top dial because the remove button type adjuster of a monotube would be no practical to have to re-align the car every time you remove the strut to adjust it.

What alot of people do is use the 4th gen twintube style rear with the top adjuster dial style on theior 3rd gens and just cut out the carpet area so the top of the rear shock is always exposed and accessible.

What most people don't know is Koni also has made a very upscale double adjustable rear shock for the 4th gen F-bodies that actually bolts right up to the 3rd gen cars and has both separate rebound AND compression adjutments in a twin tube style shock- its a takeoff of Koni's high line racecar shocks- 8242 series Part # 1006sp1

 

Yes, In fact the koni shocks are valved towards the average daily driver oem stock car. It has a more agressive compression damper valving so as to stiffen the travel from excessive movement on bumps- hence why it is a little more harsh for a car now equipped with higher sport rate aftermarket springs but yet wanting to cruise the blvd. Of course they are going to ride a little stiffer than most like when you go from a stock shock/stock spring car to a sport shock valving and them also up the spring rates. What alot of people do not know is the Koni's are actually engineered for a stock car as a upscale replacement shock to give a standard performance car some sport feel. They will give a Sport springed car a racecar feel. Best comparison is going from a Lincoln towncar feel to an AMG Mercedes in sport feel.
i have a little w202 C-class Mercedes with a rare European Brabus body kit. Most of the guys that try and upgrade these cars will complain that the car is too stiff if they go from the luxury stock shocks and springs to a Koni and Eibach sport lowered springs. They all perfer the softer Bilsteins with the stiffer spring rates, but then they still have to lock up the cars luxury ride with massive swaybars because the car still leans terribly due to Bilsteins lack of Rebound force. What am I doing with mine? I am leaving the stock factory springs and put Koni yellow monotubes onto it- Mercedes has a nice OEM setup where they offer different thickness rubber spring perches, I have the thinnest ones to lower the car slightly and still retain an exceptional ride quality as well as having great rebound force for controling cornering roll weight. When you understand the importance and function of a good damper, you then learn how to build a car to ride nice and handle nice

 

It's funny you should say that. I'm running stock sway bars with Eibach springs with Bilsteins - so I guess I'm one of "those guys" lol.... You're definitely correct about the car being stiff...it's a much stiffer ride for sure...but I noticed just the opposite so far as handling/leaning around turns.

Since I switched to these springs and shocks, the handling around turns has improved dramatically with very little - if any lean. The biggest issue I have is the thinner sidewalls on the drag radials I have on the rear flexing around sharp turns .

But in all fairness, I got them at Discount Tires Direct, and the guy on the phone did warn me about that and suggested a more road oriented tire....but I was more interested in a softer compound for traction.

I know Koni's are a top notch shock, and it's fairly obvious both Slicktrack and Reid are strong supporters of Koni's.

That being said, I always like to hear opinions like Paul's that have both brands (Koni and Bilstein) on two different F-bodies. Maybe I'll get a set of Koni's for my SRT whenever the factory Bilsteins wear out....great info here!!

 

LOL, we are talking about two different types of cars. The Eibach/Bilsteins works nice on a thrid gen for a decent ride- my quote above was an example of installing Koni/Eibach on a luxury car/C-class Mercedes. The cars are not good around corners period. They have a poor roll rate, they were designed for straight line comfort.

The Bilstein/Eibach combo for street use is alot more sporty feel than the stcok setup for sure, but the car will still lean. Yours is not becasue you have no lateral grip running around with drag radials on the car. Let me share a story about a little piloting I did on a little local race circuit with one of our locals. Raul wanted me to run his car/ he was in the paseenger seat. He asked me to give him imput on what the car needs. I ran one lap and shut it down with a real puzzled look on my face as he kept asking me what could he do next- I pulled my helmet down and yelled over to him to let me get out and lok at things becasue something felt awfully funny about the car. Once I pulled my helmet I was telling him it felt like every time I hit mid corner and started applying throttle it felt as if the tires went flat and then pumped right back up as it straightend out- it was a very uneasy feeling......

..I stop the car in the pits (it was nighttime) I gt out and walk around the back right where I had light and kneeled down near the rearend to look under it....as I notice the frikin drag radials he had on it. I was like "Raul, WTF?" I still pick on him today about that.

 

I have the Bilstein/pro-kit combo and totally agree with slick on this one. I have SLP/koni yellows on a 4th gen and the dampening of the Konis is far superior IMHO. The Bilsteins are really under dampened for a lowered car IMHO (and this is a street only car). I don't really like the handling(too much sway and bounce & these are the HD's). Does strano still revalve Bilsteins? I hear Bilstein can revalve them for you. My question is will a revalved Bilstein reach the performance of a koni Yellow? Or am I better off getting rid of my 10K mi Bilsteins and get Konis. (anyone want to trade?)

I personally feel that a car with Konis is a safer car overall.

P.S> not that the Bilsteins are horrible, they are not, they are still better than all the other lesser shocks, just not the level of performance I was expecting, valving is not aggressive enough IMHO.

 

Twin_Turbo has 3 F-bodies. One with Bilsteins. One with Koni Red. And one with Koni Yellow. I asked him to compare all of them. He said that for comfort, it's Bilstein --> Red --> Yellow. For performance, it's Yellow --> Red --> Bilstein......I then asked what his favourite was. He said the yellows.

Personally, I'm not one of those hard core sadists while likes a stiff ride. I took the poly transmission mount out and went back to rubber due to minor vibrations that I just couldn't stand. I also drive daily on concrete roads with way too many potholes and divots to contend with.

Having said that, I still think the Koni Yellows are the way to go.

 

You really didn't need to say it Reid...we can just look at your avatar!!..

Honestly, I'm not going to debate about which is best between Koni and Bilstein...I just misread what Slicktrack was saying...it happens all the time with me. But I can relate to what he said about the rear tires feeling like they're going flat if I take a real aggressive turn!

I'll fully admit, making any car handle is way above my knowledge level. When it comes down to it, I can't really compare a normal Bilstein HD shock since I have AK's.

After I got them, I realized they were set up pretty aggressive for road racing...(so I was told)...which is most likely why mine are stiff as heck. I too drive on concrete roads with plenty of potholes, and I can feel every one of them! The car handles great with them around twisties considering the mismatch tire setup I have. My SRT came with "normal" Bilsteins all around stock, and it's a lot less stiff. But those cars are pigs in comparison to a Thirdgen...almost 4200 pounds. It does great for what it is though.

 

You get what you pay for, if effectivness is considered, KWB's are really junk if compared with Bilstein.

 

hell i put a set of ce 3 way adjustable drag shocks on a street car before the kyb's

 

oh my god. Bringing this back from the dead because I was doing a search and just had to say. The bilsteins are inverted. That massive "rod" is the damper body. So....... your info is flawed. Hope this this helps someone.