ok i have a 50k mile 305 TBI firebird...current mods are an open element air cleaner and ult. TBI mods...new rear should be installed in about 2 weeks(3.23 w/ posi and disk - much better than 2.73 open w/ drums)

my basic idea is to get the best quarter time and keep a reasonable amount of driveability...so like the title says GO NUTS! pretend that you have the motor and the money and the same goal...lets see what you come up with

and i dont wanna hear the typical "swap in a 350" crap...this is gonna strictly be a 305 buildup

thanks in advance

edit: i will use nitrous

 

hooker 2055's-$370
straight pipe-$70 (MAC)
flowmaster catback-$320
motive gears-$180
eaton posi-$400
cam-$200
L98 aluminum heads- $500 maybe?
edelbrock tbi manifold-$220
NOS kit-$550

total=$2,810

The rest is for misc. crap like gaskets and bolts.

 

Nice set of Headers... 300-400 bucks(could get them much cheaper but that's your decision)
081 Heads Ported and Polished with some Machine Work... 800-1200 best guess not sure(somebody help me out)
LT1 Cam 60 bucks off ebay
Walboro Fuel Pump around 100 bucks
SFC's 200 bucks
STB 140 bucks
Springs not sure, i would guess 300-500

what am i at?
400+1200+60+100+200+140+500=2600

hmmm 400 bucks
a nice catback exhaust... 200-400 depending on brand.

maybe a 454 TBI Unit from a Junkyard and some chip tuning

if your not happy with that then your nuts. but i think that will have you pretty well covered.

 

id like to keep the 3.23 gears and as i stated i will have a posi in about two weeks...so toss that money at something else

 

i wouldn't go with the L98 heads, your compression will drop to all time lows... and your going to need to know how to tune or have somebody tune for you... peronally if you have any computer skills at all i'd learn how to myself. but that's something for you to decide. and if your not happy after all that stuff i mentioned throw another 500 bucks at it for the NOS

 

get a torque converter

 

you have no idea how many people have told me that

 

the L98 heads will have the exact same compression ratio as the stock 9.3:1 heads.

 

ok thank you so much for all the quick responses...any idea if this could net me 13 sec quarter times? btw it has an auto tranny

 

just got the laptop back from the chinese computer guru and the pocket programmer is in the mail

 

I firmly believe that if I was able to build and tweak that setup, I could be very close to 11's on nitrous.

 

really? are you positive the L98 heads aren't bigger CC wise and thus lowering the compression ratio? i was under the influence that they were larger and would lower compression.... hmm i'm skeptical can you show me this in numbers? just for my own info...

and on the note about you not be happy... well personally i probably wouldn't be either but that'll be a great start

 

The aluminum L98 heads are 58 cc, which is the same as the stock heads, and they also have smaller valves that work perfectly with the 305's small bore. IMO, they're the best heads available for the 305 right now.

 

ahh the alum heads i missed that. am i correct though in thinking the cast heads are larger?

 

i believe you are correct

 

alright now back on topic, go with those heads and maybe work them a little. probably same price as the 081 heads. as 25th said above a TC would be a good investment... is the car gonna be daily driven or just weekend or race or what? if daily i'd go with about a 2400 stall at most and if weekend/race maybe closer to 3k. but tuning is definetly going to be ur best friend. if you find chuck! as him, he has a pretty well built 305 and is still working all the kinks out. and shifty is pretty knowledgable about the l03, but i think he and chuck also, might be out of town.

 

it will be a daily driver...and 25trhss do you really think i could hit 11s??? if so i'd be more than happy with 12s for less money(gas prices suck) aw hell **** it ill get another job... me likey 11s :lala:

 

Well I can give you exactly what I have done so far:

TPI heads(some machine work) $480
Hooker 2055's w/coating 572
Flow master 3" cat 100
Borla Cat back 500
L98 cam 50
Edelbrock intake (soon) 220

That puts me at $1900. I don't really know what a NO2 kit, gears, or a torque converter would cost; but I would hope to be in the 13's.

 

I believe that you could barely thouch 11's if done right. I'm not talking about a wimpy LT1 cam either or anything like that. You should have the aluminum L98 heads ported and polished up then flowbenched. Get a cam to match the flow results. It's all about the package. If somebody just put enough effort into a 305 tbi as I've seen with other car's it could be a great performer. Tuning is key also.

EDIT: I'll put it to you this way. I WILL be in the 12's by the end of this season with stock heads and cam.

 

:hail:

 

i know how necessary it is to pick the right cam/heads/intake...just a question on porting, polishing and flowbenching...could i port and polish the heads myself? or is the fact that im asking that question proof that i shouldn't even think about attempting it? also do aluminum l98 heads come with springs and rockers that would be suitable for my future setup? and could just about any local shop port/polish and flowbench the heads?

 

one more question...i know this is the wrong forum but i figured id ask anyway...with this setup will 1 5/8" headers be too restrictive? or should i start looking at 1 3/4"?

 

If you really want to do it yourself it can be done, but I would leave it up to a more experienced person. If you bought used stock heads they will come with springs, etc, but they prolly won't be up to the task of a good cam. A good tip for you is to purchase them from gmperfmanceparts.com. They already come with a 3 angle valve job and a few other goodies, and they flow pretty well out of the box.

 

1 5/8" will be fine.

25THRSS -- In the 12's with stock heads and cam???? I guess you're going to be using N2O, because I don't see that happening w/ such a WEAK cam. Please prove me wrong though, because I would love to see it.:hail:

OK, as for the topic:

Hooker 2055's ceramic coated $575
3" cat $80
Dynomax catback $165
New O2 sensor $40

LT4 cam $100
L98 heads w/ upgraded springs $600
Timing chain $50
Edelbrock TBI intake $220

Walbro 190 fuel pump $80 + $275 for installation
TDS AFPR $80
Inline fuel gauge $35

Gaskets $100

Custom chip after datalogging $300
ALDL cable $60

Spohn SFC $300
Wonderbar $125
Good Z-rated tires $550
KYB GR-2 struts and Gas-a-Just shocks $120

TOTAL = $3,855

Yeah, I know I went over budget, but I overestimated the pricing on some of the stuff or simply included installation cost in the price. But the one thing I've learned working on my car is that IT WILL ALWAYS COST MORE THAN YOU EXPECT. ALWAYS!!

If you take out the suspension stuff you can get yourself down to $2,760.

And if you search on Ebay, you could probably save yourself A LOT more money. But if you're not able to do the heads and cam install yourself, you might as well be ready to tap on another $1,000 for labor.

 

i shouldn't have a problem installing the heads and cam with a little bit of help(only gonna cost me a couple burgers and drinks)

and i DO plan on spraying

and as for not upgrading suspension...whats the use of hp and torque if u cant get it 2 the road????

 

To each his own. It's your car.

Well I know that, but some people don't think like that. Some people are only concerned with throwing up big HP numbers. I didn't know if you were that type of person or not.

 

yea i hear ya...but im going more for et than trap speed or hp/tq...my underlying motive is 2 spank this bitch at my school who had his mommy and daddy buy him a brand new 02 stank gt using my own $$...and if things shape up properly i will lay waste to him (hes stock )

 

just to clarify, my entire setup is based on running nitrous.

 

just checking. I thought is sounded a bit optimistic for a stock head and cammed motor.

 

ok good thanx...gar i wanna order parts now dammit

 

since people are actually looking at this thread could someone go here and tell me what the difference is between the two?

 

Hmmm, now where should I start?

You are wanting to dump a whole lot of money and time and effort into your car, that is good and all but I would make sure that your car is in good condition first. What I am saying is that I wouldn't do a heads/cam swap on a car that has 150,000 miles on the motor. If the motor is still in good condition then you are set, but if it has a lot of wear then forget it. In that case you should rebuild it, and in that case you should get a 350 block. Yes, that's right I said it. Don't rebuild a 305 if you are going for performance.

I think many people in this thread have forgotten about the age of these cars, the build quality of these cars, and most importantly, MURPHY'S LAWS. Stuff is going to break, it always does. Plan on it, prepare for it. Also, most mods are going to cost you more money then first thought, and many might take more time then you first thought they would. You will learn that very quickly.

I'm not going to name prices or anything like that, mainly because I'm too lazy to look them up.

• Headers and y-pipe
• A high flow catalytic convertor or no convertor at all
• A good cat-back with a good muffler (flowmasters don't flow that good)
• Gears and a good posi. 3.23s are better then stock, but you should really being going to a lower gear I think
• Suspension: A lot of people will tell you it is 100% necessary but if you look around you will find that many people are running very fast with relatively stock suspension. It's called slicks.
• Tranny, I would rebuild it. Go ahead and go through it. Price it all out though once you get it rebuilt the way you want it with a high-performance convertor a T56 might not have been too much more money.
• Engine: I would pull it out of the car for sure. It's so easy and makes EVERYTHING much better. If you aren't going to rebuild it I would put in a new oil pump just for the hell of it. Replace the timing chain. Change your cam, and please, please don't use the tiny LT1 camshaft. Use a single plane intake manifold. Go ahead, don't listen to the people that have never even seen one let alone put it on their own car, Heads, change them. This all depends on budget, but I wouldn't spend too much on heads that are going to be bolted to a 305 block. The TB, you are probably going to need the bigger one.
• The most important thing though, make sure it is tuned as best as it can be. Nothing is worth anything if you leave out this step.

Porting and polishing is only a good if you have a hook-up or are doing it yourself. Ever priced how much it cost to have somebody else P&P? In my area it's cheaper to buy aftermarket castings once you are said and done.

Either will work, but I think 1 5/8" will work better.

Check out 11secZ's car. Fast car with stock suspension. There are tons of fast cars with stock suspensions. They use slicks mainly.

Nothing wrong with that. Power is power. But IMO what you run on motor still counts for something. Good luck with that goal.

Lots of kids' parents buy their children cars. Nothing wrong with that. If I had kids I'd like to provide for them too. There are other methods of teaching the value of a dollar.



Hmmm, I think that sums it up, although I’m sure I’m missing some witty remark somewhere…

 

Car has 50k mi as stated in my first post and is in excellent mechanical condition

the money factor has been planned into the build...i do have extra "just in case"

time-wise...do you think all the engine work could be completed in 4 weekends? thats the kind of MAXIMUM time frame im looking at.

slicks can't be used on the street

a $30,000+ car!?! im sorry but i disagree with you 100% on this...a 17 year old should not be handed the keys to a brand new car let alone one that costs more than 30 grand

 

Here is the build-up.

Heads, there are alot of options, i would say vortecs or ported TPI or 416's are you best bet. figurin in machine work for any of them to accomadate ($600 (that may be a bit high))

Cam ($300, think big 212-218 intake duration, over .500 with 1.5 lift)

Single Plane Intake ($250--or less)

1.6 Roller Rockers ($260 Self alinging, Comp Pro-Mags)

Double-Roller Timing Chain ($80)

Holley TBI ($350)

2055 Headers (spend the money for jet-hot) ($500)

Cat-Back of you choice ($300)

Pocket-Programer ($200) + Moates Adaptor ($65) + e-proms ($10) + lots of time to tune.

---------------------------------------------

Total = $2915, plus misc stuff, like gaskets/fluids

 

601 heads are actually probably a better choice than 416s. They have a little smaller combustion chamber and flow a little better in stock form. They are also a little heavier casting and don't crack as easily.

 

Drag radials can. Why not? The parents have the money to spend and it's their money to spend. They want to spend it on a brand-new car for their child it's 100% their call. Besides a brand new mustang doesn't cost $30,000. It doesn't make him a bad kid. What would make him a bad kid is if he took the situation at hand and bragged about it or tried to make others feel foolish because they didn't receive the same. One could argue that isn't the parents fault. I know tons of kids that thought they were the hot **** and their parents were good people. Obviously they can afford insurance, and that's great by me too. Better then all these people riding around w/o any insurance because they can't afford it...

 

thats just it he strolls around like he owns everything and is a total dick about everything...no one likes him and since im the only person in the parking lot with the will/money to drop into a car the responsibility of shutting him up has been given to me

 

dealing with intake manifolds....
im getting confused whats a single plain? and which tbi adapter will be required? will i need an 87-later manifold if i swap heads?(engine is an 89) any chance the manifold, adapter, nitrous plate, and tbi will fit under the stock hood?(im willing to cut the hood support braces 2 make it work)

dealing with heads...
id rather not have to deal with doing machine work on the heads...if neccesary in your opinion then yes ill get it done but is there a set of heads that would do well in my proposed setup w/o machine work?

thanks again for all the replies

 

1) depends on the manifold, depends on the adaptor, depends on the nitrous plate.

2) depends on your cam specs, if you go with an aggresive cam, unless you get aftermarket heads that are already built to handle high-lift you will need machine work.

why are you opposed to machine work? get a set of heads, port them, drop them off at the shop, then pick them up. end of story.

do note, that i missed an item, if you go with an aggressive cam, you will also need a set of valve springs, those will be $100 or less.

 

how would i port them?

 

I'm with brody and dewey on this one. For the heads I would definitely say go with some Vortecs, they just seem like they can't be beat for the money.

For the heads, I don't think I'd go with the aluminum L98 heads on a 305. Granted it will keep your compression at the stock 9.3:1 because the chambers are the same size, but the L98's are aluminum heads, so you would want more compression even beyond the 9.3. I think a good set of iron 58cc heads would do better or some shaved down Vortecs.

 

exactly, you would want 10:1 or slightly higher, with alum. heads.

the only thing that might sway me the other way, woudl be if he was building it for a BIG shot of juice, with forged pistons, ect. then i would run lower compresion about 9:3:1 with alum. heads, and a good nitrous cam. but i would not trust a stock buttom end to a setup like that.

the other thing i would do (money depending) is not bother with a plate setup, i would get a fogger system, and set it to 125 or so. but it is all up to how much money you want to spend

now with the vortecs, remeber that intake manifold choices are limited, and out of the box, to run a healthy cam, they will need the valve guides machined for rocker/guide clearance.

 

L-98 aluminum heads and a SUPERCHARGER!!!!!!!

 

Hmmm, then I say: "Git-R-Done".

Vortecs are good heads for sure. L98 head are pretty good also. Porting and polishing isn't that difficult. I have done it before and although I'm sure I didn't do a super bad-*** job I bet it helped out a little bit.

Heads are very important, but I stress this: don't get the puny LT1 cam. Go bigger.

 

what kind of tools are required for a port/polish and are there tutorials/books that outline this sort of thing?

 

That's why I recommended the aluminum L98's. He will be able to run more compression, which nitrous actually loves. The guys who race in the nitrous classes run upwards of 15:1 compression ratio.

 

15:1 and spray, thats great if you are paying the money to fill the tank with 106 octane. for the real world, it isn't an option.

the problem with Alum. L98 heads is this, the have the same compresion as iron 305 heads, it is FACT that if you take the same heads, 1 iron, 1 alum, at the same compresion ratio, the iron always makes more power, it has to do with the way it handles, and absorbs the heat.

so, he is either milling down the alum. heads, getting custom length pushrods, and having whatever intake he gets milled. or he can bolt on a set of iron heads with min. machine work.

i am not saying i dislike alum. heads, but you either need to do it right, or not bother. with the budget he layed out, i really do think that alum heads are the way to go.

 

$3000 does not get you very far with these cars. You can throw any ebay bargin heads and cam on you want but if you have the inability to tune or feed your new combo with the right fueling and exahust, you will be gravely dissapointed. You have to get rid of all the weak links on these cars if you want to make power. If I had a bone stock 305 TBI car in front of me now with 3 grand I would use it like this.

Assuming the car needs no tune up, these are the areas i would adress first.

-Full exhaust (Plan for $1,000 right off the bat) Goining without a cat or coated headers will decrease this to as low as $500.
-Lap top and every peice of equipment necessary for prom burning.
-Fuel pump
-Gears and posi
-Basic suspension

Don't forget that tax and shipping drastically raise the price of everyones parts list. The first $3,000 I spent on my car did not go very far.

Open element with k&N - $150 (I went overboard here)
Full exhaust (cheaply done) - $1,500
Pressure regulator - $80
LT1 + Gaskets + all other associated expenses - $300
TBI intake - $250
Suspension/tires/wheels stuff to get the car to hook - $3,500 plus

This doesn't even cover any expenses that i may have missed like tax, shipping or labor that I could not perform myself.

This is only the major stuff that I have. You can see that 3 grand did not get me far. Notice I did not list prom burning stuff or heads.

 

what about a set of world heads? they're about 700 and are supposed to be ready to go.

I would suggest: torque converter, aluminum driveshaft (junk yard from an ls1 car), full exhaust, cold air induction set up, underdrive pulleys, tbi and free mods, go w/ synthetic tranny, power steering, and gear fluid as well as oil.
In a previous edition of mm&ff (pls dont flame for that) they gained 10hp peak hp and at least 3 accross the board from this. while you are in the tranny change the filter.


also, don't forget the benefits of a full tune-up before you start any of this, after youve accomplished all of this, look at head and cam packages.
the best thing to do is map out what you are going to do first, and set youre spending limit(that part is already done) otherwise it will cost more than you imagine.
also, don't forget about the benefits of weight reduction and practicing your driving technique. No offence, since i don't know you at all, but most 17 year olds are not the best drivers, so if you can out drive the other guy, that will count lots for the power disadvantage you are at.
Also like said above, 3k won't go very far, but it will get you a good start
hope this helps

 

World heads are mediocre at best out of the box. they definitley need to be ported to get good results from them.

Again i pose the question brought up by brody, why must it be a 305? Why sink thousands of dollars and time and effort and meticulous tuning into a car that will get spanked by any half-assed mustang? Get a 350 Long block from somewhere, throw a hotcam in it and ported vortec heads, and you'll have a car that can actually win a street race or two.