cool im running the lt1 cam instead and im working on tunning right now

 

They called me today and they got whatever file they were looking for to do the computer tune. So it's on the dyno today and should have some numbers tomorrow or Wednesday.

 

awesome man

 

Sounds good. Hopefully they won't rush and will get enough runs in to get the most out of the tune.

 

Thats funny that they didn't have the .ecu file they needed to tune your car. Seems like the 746 would be a fairly popular ecm. Guess they haven't done too many TBI cars.

 

Taht's pretty much what he said. They mostly tune the newer stuff. I don't think they've done a TBI in quite a while. But they have a pretty good reputation around here so I'm going to give them a shot. Should hear from them tomorrow.

 

I don't know why they put a stock regulator on there now. They should have adjusted the bpw constant in the bin, not lower fuel pressure. Now you're going to make only a little more horsepower than the original application of your injectors . If they don't understand than then pay for my airflight and I'll tune that car without a dyno... you'll get results. I have a bad feeling about this especially since they turned DOWN the fuel pressure instead of tuning the calibration. Basically you're now left with not enough fuel, no matter how much they "command" in the chip you're injectors only have x time to flow fuel. When x time happens to be 100% duty cycle (allways open) they've lose complete control of the injector and you're left with whatever horsepower the stock injectors/fuel pressure supported. Uh, reputations can be misleading. I hope you don't have to learn the hard way ($$$) but the only way to get the car running right might be to just DIY. Get the Prominator for $175 and start tuning. The Prominator is an all-in-one setup. No need for a chip, programmer, eraser, this device replaces all of them, it's perfect for people that tune 1 car and don't like having to lug around equipment. I'd get one if I didn't work on so many different cars.

 

PAY FOR YOUR TICKET AND YOU'LL COME OUT AND TUNE IT FOR ME!!!!

NOW YOU TELL ME!!!!

JP,

I work for an airline, I could have had you out here first class by now!!!!!

 

Maybe this winter when you get tired of those dreary Ohio winter days you can come out to the sunshine and 70* weather.

By the way, I'm the one that told them to put the stock regulator back on the car. So you can blame me.

 

shoot.

you work for an airline... Hook us all up. I'm sure myself, Jon, and a few others from not so wonderful weather places, would love to head to AZ come feb.

 

Ahh, snowbirds! Being one of the few surviving AZ natives, they've become an all too common thing to me here. Ya'll make it down here, party at my place

 

Hey can you include a canadian TBI guy in the AZ road trip...ha ha ha....I am excited to find out how this all works out......

Hey...JPrevost ...so the Prominator really simplifies things....for someone starting out do you guys think thats the best way to go?

D

 

The prominator, and autoprom stuff is very nice.

The hitch... once you get good at it, everyone and their brother will want your help...having a stand alone programer is very handy then. I keep the programer, laptop, and inverter in the car now, I have an aldl cable for TPI and TBI cars, and tunerpro, winaldl and moates loaded.

 

I'm already wishing for spring weather... it's going to be a LONG winter .
I've got family out in AZ, not sure exactly where but it's been a couple years since I've seen them. If it happens it wouldn't be until after the new year. I've got plans all the way through x-mas that are pretty much set in stone.
As for the Prominator, I have yet to use one but I've seen it in person and met the creaters of it. It's an AWESOME device for $175. You CAN do it cheaper but it's no where near as easy. You could do the old chip burning process but it's tedious work having to remove these little devices with pins that break off so easily.
Now for the fuel pressure; get them to use the stock regulator or they'll be scratching their heads why they can't control the fuel after 220hp. Tell them to trim the bpw (aka injector constant) to a lower value to lean out EVERYTHING, raise it to richen. Then can calculate a bpw using a formula, I just figure let them do what they feel is best and see how you like it. If the numbers are acceptable and you datalog that the injectors aren't static (100% duty cycle) then we could skip the whole me flying out to help bit. Time will tell and please keep me (us) informed on the progress.

 

I will definitely keep everyone informed.

I'm all for a visit from our cold weather brethren after the first of the year. Keep in mind it's not all fun and games out here in the winter, sometimes it gets all the way down to 65*. It's a bitch.

 

Tanager,

No problem, Canadians are welcome. No snow shoes required. We know Canadians can hold their rye, how about tequila?

 

Just to make sure, you meant the AFPR right?

 

No tequila for this kid....well only on special occasions...ha ha...but bring the beers on and all is good...ha ha!

 

photos?

 

Yes, my bad. I was rushing in that post.
The major problem with TBI is the fact that the stock injectors are already barely enough for a stock motor. Trust me, they run lean with even headers and intake modifications. ESPECIALLY with a cam swap like the L98 or Lt1. Remember that as engine RPM increases there is less time for the injectors to flow fuel. On a stock TBI motor the volumetric efficienty takes a dive after 4500rpm, hence after that the injectors don't need to flow much fuel (because the motor is sucking in very little air). When you add exhaust and a cam you move everything to a higher RPM, this means the injectors need to stay open longer at higher RPM. Does that make sence to everybody? If not and you want me to explain it better let me know.
This is why I believe in huge TBI injectors or high fuel pressure for anything with "normal" mods. I'm running 100lb/hr injectors right now (65#@12psi but I'm running 28psi) and I'm coming to around 85% dc at 4800rpm! Obviously my motor has more efficient heads and a larger cam but take this into consideration; my heads (vortec) make better use of any air/fuel that's introduced into the chamber. This is the main contribution to the advertised "bolt on 20-30hp with only a head swap". This is because the combustion chamber has excellent swirl and quench. This results in a lower BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption). When you calculate fuel requirements the BSFC number is how efficient your engine is. 2 things lower this number, chamber design, intake/exhaust flow ratio, and dynamic compression. So when it's all said and done, my engine is making more horsepower with less fuel. See why I think TBI is held back by fuel delivery issues. I also believe the stock TBI code to be terrible on anything other than stock engines. Even then there's something to be said about running better code. I will be the proof that TBI is just as able as port injection at making horsepower. If a carb can make the same peak hp as port injection then I'm sure TBI can, I've just been code limited. Wow, that post was longer than I wanted, lol.

 

i am running 80 lbs at 13 lbs FP. 13.0/1 on WB with limited WOT/PE testing. too lean. i think i will double check BPW and kick FP to 15 lbs. have taken engine to 4800 rpms and cam should be good to 5800 per specs. possibly command 12.5/1 in bin as 12.75 commanded currently.

 

Hawks Radiator on Cave Creek Rd 3 core radiator $180
Tranny cooler @$40
Dual fan set up like mine @$150

and you'll cruise around at 170* like me

 

Stock Radiator $0
No tranny cooler $0
Stock Single Fan Setup $0
160* thermostat $7
On/Off Toggle Switch $1.50 at radio shack and 5 minutes to install and you can cruise at 170* like me in AZ too!!!

maybe im just lucky, but my car NEVER overheats now that ive got a working fan...

edit: Also, all the cooling system was from a 305cid, now its cooling a 350cid with those results...

 

I range from 150-170*. 170 being what it runs in the middle of summer in non-moving traffic.

Schwarz is right though. Get away from the crappy "automatic" fan switch/relay thing and have the fan on when you need it not when the computer thinks it should be on.

 

Picked up car today. Dyno numbers are in. Will be posted shortly. Just need PM's from two people to confirm their guess on numbers.

 

i guess they will still be higher than my LO5 numbers!! haha

 

What was my guess again? Am I right?

EDIT: 240 HP and 300 lb/ft at the crank were my guesses

What was the determined prize?

 

Have not come up with a prize yet. But I will.

Can't give away any secrets on the numbers yet.

 

ohh man , no PM

guess I suck

 

LOL!!!! nah, u just gotta be persistent... PM him before he expects it, then u get the numbers... haha... keep guessing tho, bruce was close with over 1k rwhp... lol

 

awesome post them asap

 

Bill, you're killing me, let's hear em!

 

What a tease.

 

hahaha.... bill told me that the printer on the dyno the shop used was broken or something, so he has verbal confirmation on the HP numbers... but not the TQ yet... the craziest thing isnt his actual HP numbers, its the difference between Tuned and Untuned... i dont think i even guessed at the numbers, but i would have been wrong...

 

Post em!

 

Ok here are the numbers. I will have to trust JP on his guess.

Base line was 122 rwhp.

After the dyno and chip burning I stand at 158 rwhp and 226 hp at the crank.

Pretty disapointing. I thought for sure I would get 210 rwhp out of my set up. There is more power in there somewhere.

I need to get my new chip on a reader and see what they did and if it can be improved upon.

 

yeah, im sure you can get way more power out of that setup. If you want to look for another place to do tuning you might wanna check out turbocity.com , i think the guy that works there tuned CHPs vortec 305 TBI engine and it made some good power numbers. 3.73s and a stall converter will do wonders for the car also, GOOD LUCK man.

 

Go to the 1/4 mile dyno.

More fun

 

There is definatly something up. Id be willing to suspect more then tuning at this point. You say it has the 082's, right? Those with the L98 cam should have at least made around 160-170 hp with no mods at all. 120HP is only like 150 at teh crank. 158 hp at the wheels is probably only really 200-205 HP at the crank. 30 hp increase over stock isnt bad for bolt-ons but with better heads and cam Id at least expect 50. Id carefully look at the ignition system, fuel system, ESC, engine, etc. Id even check to make sure the heads you have are 305 heads and not 350 heads. Check everything. Probably about 60% of my 'tuning' problems turned out to be mechanical or ignition related problems.

 

I bet it was when they put it back to stock fuel pressure

 

Whats the graph look like? I bet it slopes off pretty fast up top. Probably because they ran out of fuel. How much torque did it make? Where where these HP and TQ peaks at?

All of this will let you know where your restriction is and where to go from now.

 

Actually it's the 416's...

 

Oh... It says tpi heads in his sig so I guess i ***umed they where 87+.

I was under the impression that he was running 65 pph injectors, which should deliver enough fuel for around 240 hp at the stock pressure, although its debatable if theyre adiquate. Does he still have teh stock injectors instead?

 

And I thought I was disappointed with my dyno results

 

I can see why your dissapointed in your Hp figures. But how much
torque are you pulling?
I saw the VID and your car roars I thought it had more teeth though.
Have you got to drive it yet?
Someone else asked allready are you still on stock injectors?
I was just reading elsewhere someone sayin they dropped in 100lb injectors with a less modified car. an adovcate of big injectors as one of the first mods

 

OK here is the scoop.

It has the 416 casting heads, which are pre '87 305 tpi heads. And I still have the stock injectors and stock ignition system.

As far as the torque, I need to call them and ask.

 

Time to go to a 350??

 

I would be just as interested in the RPM the peak numbers were at, along with a graph. the actualy peak numbers don't mean much with the RPM and the actualy power-curve.

Hopefully you will be able to get a graph, and post it. I have a sneaking suspision, that your HP peak was well before where it should be.

 

id have to agree with the fuel system... that whole stock fuel pressure thing doesnt seem right to me. your engine is not stock, so therefore should require a non-stock fuel setting... my LO5 with swirl port heads and stock intake manifold probably makes 150rwhp, granted ive got more cubes, but your camshaft/heads should more than make up for it... there is no sense having the the bigger bores if they cant breathe as well... i ono, ive got a couple chips we can try on your car from TBIchips for a test run if you want... im not sure exactly what they change, but when i was running my LO3, i noticed a difference when i changed from stock chip to my TBI chips one... dunno tho..

 

Ditto....