I installed my TBIchips.com 350 chip today into my new 7747 computer this weekend and ran into a few problems, fixed a few, and then got new ones.

First off, the temp coolant sensor on the driver side head was disconnected. I fixed that as well as fixed all vacuum leaks, fixed up all AIR tubing, and wired up a fan sensor which was cut apart. Before doing all of this, the car idled way too high at around 1500-2000 rpm and was all around rough. After getting everything in check I turned it on and sure enough for the first time ever it idled right at 1000 and dropped to about 800-900 after half a min or so. So one mission is accomplished

Heres my problem: The car drives great up until about 50mph. When it gets up to 50+ then it chugs around and hesitates more and more as I get going faster. My 350 chip matches my LO5 but I might still need a 350 knock and ESC. Will these cause it to drive like that. I also didnt adjust the timing to factory 0 like brian (from TBIchips) said. Ill get to doing that asap once I find my timing light, but I wanted to know what exactly is to blame. Is it recommended that i dont even try driving it with the 305 knock/esc in there? thanks

 

Id almost say that its a problem with the highway mode since it ocures above 50 mph but I dont think it was enabled with the 7747s. Maybe a TCC lockup issue or timing issue associated with it?

 

I have swapped original 305 KSs into many different engines- 350s, 383s, 400s, etc. Never a problem.

The only "problem" you could have would be that it would be picking up "false knock" and pulling back the timing.

BEFORE you waste a bunch of money buying a new KS and ESC try bypassing the KS as a diagnostic test. It's easy to do and will cost you about 50 cents. Go to Radio Shack and pick up a 3900 Ohm resistor. Clip off the factory KS connector from the wiring harness and then attached one lead of the resistor. Attach the other lead of the resistor to a good ground. Done.

ECM will THINK that the KS is still there and working, but obviously it will never register any knock. If it fixes the problem, then you know you were indeed picking up false knock and it's time to figure out why. If it makes no difference then you know that's not the reason for your problem.

 

is there any other way to find out if I have a 350 knock or 305. I am almost positive its a 305 knock because the chip, and everything else were left alone during the swap. I dont think its that the knock isnt working, because ive already tested it. I think its the wrong unit. Plus if the knock is 305...well then obviously the ESC is 305 unit too (at least it should be).

A new knock is only 50 or so bucks so Im not too worried. But still thats 50 bucks I save if its the correct unit and ESC. Let me check the timing first.

 

If you test with the resister, just make sure you dont get on it. Otehrwise the computer will perform the forced knock test, and itll fail. This *might* skew your results a bit

 

Forced knock test????

 

Yeah, the stock computer adds lots of timing and checks to see if it gets any knock. No knock, it pulls all the timing and the car runs like puke.

 

I was not aware , how often does the ecm do that test??

 

Hmm... why not ask Brian what's wrong. Obviously you installed HIS chip and it isn't running right.
This is why I can't help you, because I have no idea what he did to your "350 chip".

 

I emailed brian first thing. He replied (within 15 minutes somehow) that i needed to check my injectors, timing, knock, and esc for the knock. Which is all pretty much what I figured it would be. Ive decided to just do it all at once.

My problem is i cant find any 350 injectors in time. Paying over $100 each is out of my budget for right now.

 

Have you tried going back with the 305 bin and runniing the vehicle over 50mph to see if the problem is there? I'd do that before ripping into the rest of the car for things that aren't broken.
These chips that you can buy through the mail aren't saving you any money, infact it's detrimental to both your car's life (engine life) and gas milage. If I started a mail order buisness with all of the free info/patchs given to me from this site I'd do 3 things. I'd hate myself for selling less than perfect, I'd put the rest of the chip sellers out of buisness (no comebacks and dirt cheap), and I'd completely ruin the whole DIY world that has been created through the use of the internet and free research! In otherwords the future of car tuning would be left in the $$$$$ instead of the $$. DIY brought down the price of widebands yet only the people with the DIY_WB kits has shown any appreciation . It's guys like Brian that lurk around the boards, pick up the patchs that are ment for DIY, and sell it to a poor soul needing a tune that really do no good in this world.
Your car will run fine on the 305 chip with the L05 until you cough up the $120 for burning equipment (yeah, that's all it costs to do a million of your own chips). And now that you've paid Brian his bucks (even though they weren't a LOT), I'm suposed to be here for your free tech support . I've had enough of this crap. I've worked hard giving back to the community that helped me yet I see no progress with guys like you. You don't need to be a wiz bang computer genious to tune your cars EFI and Brian and those guys want to make you feel like you do... it's complete .
I'll help you once you've helped yourself. Please, take this as an insult but at the same time don't. I don't blame YOU as much as I do Brian and the rest of those guys. What about the companies like ADS, Superchip, and Hypertech... they spend $$$$ finding stuff and here we are, the DIY "gang" that keep lowering their prices... but AREN'T selling our knowledge. It would be completely different if he was working hands on with your car. Those guys actually work to get things right!
Good luck.

 

I highly doubt its the injectors. Those things are tough as nails. Since it happens at 50 mph, that gives you a clue as to what the problem is. As for th exact nature of the problem, im not sure. Try using the stock chip and see if the problem persists.

 

This "forced knock" test is like a ghost. I have heard about it many times but never actually encountered anything that proves it exists. If it did, bypassing the KS would EVENTUALLY cause a check engine light for KS malfunction. I have run many different 3rd gen engines, sometimes for MONTHS, with the KS bypassed as I describe and never gotten a check engine light. If it exists (and I have my doubts) it certainly has never shown itself to me in only a few minutes/hours of driving around to diagnose a relatively straight-forward yes/no problem like this.

 

Well you'd be completely wrong if you didn't believe it there.
The code says it's there, the test is performed, if no knock counts are detected it tries again with more knock retard, if it still gets no feedback it'll set the code 43 and pull tons of timing out leaving you with base timing and only the ESC advance at like 2200rpm.
How do you think it's a "ghost"? On every test bench and in every datalog you'll see the ecm advance the timing and detect knock counts.... what kind of scanning have you done other than look for the dumby light to come on?

 

No, this won't work to find out the problem. How do you come to the conclusion that it's picking up false knock and not real knock?
Since he went with a mail order chip that could be the whole problem. Brian probably added too much timing and/or commanded a way lean afr in highway mode. Lots of reasons again to not trust some mail order chips.

 

JPrevost i understand the frustration you have. I dont want to seem that I was a helpless victim pulled into buying one of brians phony chips or that I hate DIY chipping. Prior to placing my order, I literally almost bought the chip equipment i need to burn my own. In fact I even have a prom eraser. On top of that, my dad is an electronics engineer and has spent years burning chips himself for his company and computer equipment.

So why did I spend $70 and get a chip from brian? Because I had a 305 chip that just wasnt cutting it and the biggest factor...I was in the process of buying a 4th gen. Thus, buying all the chip equipment would have been worthless. All I wanted was something to do its job and make the car smooth and more reliable. (obviously those havent been solved yet) However, I am not one to give in to the big chip scam. I am a big DIY kind of guy and absolutely hate seeing people getting cheated out of their money. In this rare case though, I needed something fast, cheap, and with a history of decent reviews.

My car now runs much better than it did. However the 55mph problem is quite annoying. I get my injectors tomorow thanks to a friend of mine at a local junkyard. I now have knock, esc, injectors, and I am about to go out and adjust to factory timing. In the end I spent about $20. My swap was poorly done and ill admit it, but because of that I am now scrambling to throw in the proper parts. A 350 needs 350 parts, and my 350 chip is supposed to do its job and complete the whole 350 formula.

Now, if this problem continues, even after putting in all parts and then replacing back to old computer, then I will certainly return here to rant about brians pore chip burning. Im not a moron of a mechanic, so I can obviously see where the problem lies when I have done everything on my part. If I keep my 3rd gen then I will most definitely take up chip burning for myself. Heck, I program code for websites, video, and 3d applications so its not like I dont understand what to do. Thanks for the replys though. Ill give an update tomorow

 

I hate that test... I was a dumbass and I changed the load for the knock counts to just instead to load 0. I did this because I didnt want to see the counter rolling over when I ran code on the test bench. There, the line is open so the counter is active at all times. Anyway, to make a long story short, I forgot to use the correct addressing mode when I changed it back. When I ran the car on the code, I was baffled by the fact that it would get the '3 rocks in a coffee can' detonation when I hit the gas and then it would fall flat on its face and give a CE light.

I looked at teh datalog and saw that some large number was being reported for the knock counts. When I looked at the hex value, it was the address for the knock counter itself rather then the actual knock counts. The knock counts are loaded into the index register IIRC, and when I see the index register, I always use immediate addressing out of habit.

The forced knock test adds 14 degrees of advance and checks to see if knock is reported. If none is reported, it then adds 20 degrees of advance to try again. If this fails, the computer maxes out the stored knock counts to get full timing retard since it cant see any knock counts being reported. The same also ocurs if the knock counts are running away.

I personally would just disable it on an actual performance motor. My SNAFU up there didnt do much other then agrivate me, but on a high performance motor with a high CR or boost, that could have trashed thousands of dollars worth of parts.

 

So how did it turn out there in Georgia?

 

how did my problem turn out?

Well its still as bad as it was before. Heres the thing, I put the old 8063 ecm/305 chip in it stops the chugging. But the idle is bad, the shifts are rough, the car just drives like its got 100hp and on its last leg. But on the highway its smooth.

Now when i insert the 7747/350 chip its nice power, shifts smoother, but chugs a little at partial throttle and once i get goin past 50mph it gets bad....real bad. Any partial throttle throughout the range feels rough.

It feels like the timing gets retarted badly and the engine seems to backfire and chug, hesitate and thump. My fuel pump should be fine, injectors are new 350 units, as are my knock and esc.

I told brian and sent out a new chip thats not as lean because it was a possibility that the car was running too lean at those speeds. No smoke but you could somewhat smell. However its not as significant as the rich smell that the 305 gives. Its odd. Any insight would be great...but im figuring that most of that will be to just DIY burn. I just cant really do that right now but im trying to datalog running winaldl so once i get my cable in ill get to doing that. Hopefully i can send that to brian.

PS. i forgot to update on the new chip. I set timing to zero and took it out. Still same problem. Its not quite as severe as before. I use that loosely because its still not acceptable. Im hoping radio has a ready made aldl cable so i can get this over with.

 

Avenger007
any updates on your problem ?

 

Ive replaced the ignition coil and put in a new knock sensor. The problem occurs less frequently somewhat.

Im in the process of making a datalog cable and just gathering the info needed to burn a proper chip. I have heard that it is a problem in the highway program mode where the car leans out the fuel for better mileage. I havent been driving it much and when I do its been doing ok. I just feel like it could be closer to perfect if I do a few tweaks.

Ill get back once I get another chip burned

 

I also was thinking about getting a chip from tbichips.com, as I have a highly modified LO3 with stock computer tuning which doesnt work well at all. I do have an ALDL cable, and was going to send my info to him to burn a chip for me, but am now curious about doing it myself. A distant thought of mine was also to switch to carb since it is such a heavily modified LO3. Would like some info on the DIY chip burning equip. Thanks.

 

Take a look at the TBI stickes as well as the DIY PROM boards. If your car is heavily modified than a mail order will not cut it. It takes sometimes hundreds of burns to get your combo dialed in. There is no way you can do that through the mail. You could have so many burns in before you ever get hat first chip.

 

Would a carb be better? I think I'd rather stick with fuel injection but not sure...

 

I'm looking at the DIY stuff and I'm prretty much lost...