head swap from HELL!!!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
head swap from HELL!!!
I just got done what can only be described as the biggest pain in the *** vortec head swap on saturday. I actually got to find out what reverse flow head gaskets really look like... the hard way
Somehow I was shipped a set and I didnt notice that instead of the one small hole for the coolant passage and teh larger one for the oil return there, there was one large square opening for whatever sort of passages the LT1/LT4 heads have. Come to think of it, I didnt notice untill there was coolant/water pouring out of the tops of the valve covers when I went to fill the radiator. Back apart it came. Nothing more fun then having to sump gallons of muck out of an engine. Oh, and lets not forget all the oil and coolant thats still in the coolant passages. That comes pouring out as soon as you take the head bolts off unless youve drained the block.
Finally later that night I got it all back together but it wouldnt start because my mystery ignition problem decided to make a return appearance. After that went away on its own I finally started it but forgot to tighten down the tbi hat so as soon as I hit the gas it went lean and backfired out the intake, blowing the gasket between the intake and the adapter plate. So now I have what can only be described as a kazoo hooked up to 90 psi of air pressure sort of sound. Oh, and lets not forget all the coolant leaks. Somehow that new half-breed coolant that prestone puts out can leak through anything, ANYTHING! Even the gasket for the waterneck had coolant pouring out of it. Not around it, not beside it, right through the gasket itself. I could see it weeping out the middle of teh gasket and carrying the coloring for the paper with it. The only way to stop it was to tighten the bolts.
After all that I finally got to drive it. I can say that the MAF really works. I tried my old speed density chip that I had for my previous setups and the engine would barely idle at all. I had to pump the gas and the best it would do is surge up and down a couple of times and stall out. Thats not to say that all my work is done for me. The transient stuff is a disaster. Way too rich. The timing also needs work. Surprisingly the vortecs still like a good deal of timing just like the smog heads did. I guess that should come as no surprise since the compression may not even be as good as 9:1 with dished pistons that sit aways down in the hole at TDC.
I actually got to limitedly run it with open headers. All I can say is the 2-1/4 " exhaust is restrictive. Goes from lean as hell on tip in with open headers to pig rich with that exhaust hooked up. Actually, I kinda like open headers. Sounds nasty and it spits sparks and flames out and pops real loud when you let off the gas. Maybe Ill get longtubes and dumps, and while Im at it Ill move out to the pine barrens so I fit in
Somehow I was shipped a set and I didnt notice that instead of the one small hole for the coolant passage and teh larger one for the oil return there, there was one large square opening for whatever sort of passages the LT1/LT4 heads have. Come to think of it, I didnt notice untill there was coolant/water pouring out of the tops of the valve covers when I went to fill the radiator. Back apart it came. Nothing more fun then having to sump gallons of muck out of an engine. Oh, and lets not forget all the oil and coolant thats still in the coolant passages. That comes pouring out as soon as you take the head bolts off unless youve drained the block.
Finally later that night I got it all back together but it wouldnt start because my mystery ignition problem decided to make a return appearance. After that went away on its own I finally started it but forgot to tighten down the tbi hat so as soon as I hit the gas it went lean and backfired out the intake, blowing the gasket between the intake and the adapter plate. So now I have what can only be described as a kazoo hooked up to 90 psi of air pressure sort of sound. Oh, and lets not forget all the coolant leaks. Somehow that new half-breed coolant that prestone puts out can leak through anything, ANYTHING! Even the gasket for the waterneck had coolant pouring out of it. Not around it, not beside it, right through the gasket itself. I could see it weeping out the middle of teh gasket and carrying the coloring for the paper with it. The only way to stop it was to tighten the bolts.
After all that I finally got to drive it. I can say that the MAF really works. I tried my old speed density chip that I had for my previous setups and the engine would barely idle at all. I had to pump the gas and the best it would do is surge up and down a couple of times and stall out. Thats not to say that all my work is done for me. The transient stuff is a disaster. Way too rich. The timing also needs work. Surprisingly the vortecs still like a good deal of timing just like the smog heads did. I guess that should come as no surprise since the compression may not even be as good as 9:1 with dished pistons that sit aways down in the hole at TDC.
I actually got to limitedly run it with open headers. All I can say is the 2-1/4 " exhaust is restrictive. Goes from lean as hell on tip in with open headers to pig rich with that exhaust hooked up. Actually, I kinda like open headers. Sounds nasty and it spits sparks and flames out and pops real loud when you let off the gas. Maybe Ill get longtubes and dumps, and while Im at it Ill move out to the pine barrens so I fit in
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Actually, before I forget, I need a new laptop. Havnt had any working datalogging system in months. Been tuning cave man style, but that only goes so far.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,758
Likes: 560
From: Cincinnati, OH
Car: '90 RS
Engine: 377 LSX
Transmission: Magnum T56
Wow sounds like there weren't enough four letter words in the book for you to use
. Nothing ever goes as planned it seems. Those gaskets should swell up and stop leaking after a few miles on the road. Sometimes they are very dry from shelf life and they leak. Did you put these heads on the camaro or the camaro blazer?
. Nothing ever goes as planned it seems. Those gaskets should swell up and stop leaking after a few miles on the road. Sometimes they are very dry from shelf life and they leak. Did you put these heads on the camaro or the camaro blazer?
Supreme Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 1
From: Greenville, SC
Car: 1991 Chevy Camaro
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Maybe Ill get longtubes and dumps, and while Im at it Ill move out to the pine barrens so I fit in
Even though it wasn't easy, I'm sure it will all pay off in the end. Any plans to take it to the track and see what it does, after tuning and such? Just curious. I'm still in awe that you've adapted a MAF sensor to a TBI engine.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Originally posted by ShiftyCapone
Wow sounds like there weren't enough four letter words in the book for you to use
. Nothing ever goes as planned it seems. Those gaskets should swell up and stop leaking after a few miles on the road. Sometimes they are very dry from shelf life and they leak. Did you put these heads on the camaro or the camaro blazer?
Wow sounds like there weren't enough four letter words in the book for you to use
. Nothing ever goes as planned it seems. Those gaskets should swell up and stop leaking after a few miles on the road. Sometimes they are very dry from shelf life and they leak. Did you put these heads on the camaro or the camaro blazer?
More then anything, really, I want a car thats fun to drive and has good pickup. Im still having ignition problems so Ill probably hold off on the track for now. Not only that, but since Im working on getting a daily driver, the camaro will probably stay as-is for now. Its got a little puney performer plus cam in it so its not going to exactly set any records, anyway.
I was also surprised with the MAF. It really adapts to whatever your using it on. Then again, thats why its so ubiquitus today. An engineer can probably just plop the intake tract on a flow bench and bang some numbers into a table rather then having to do a complete tune on a dyno. I like it because Im lazy... Only problem is that it takes up alot of space in the engine compartment and makes work in that area impossible with it hooked up. The engine compartment in that thing is stuffed. I used to think that my parents new crv looked impossible to work on but now it doesnt look so bad any more now that the camaro's engine compartment is packed with crap.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,426
Likes: 497
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Sorry to hear about the head swap nightmare. Atleast it sounds like one thing went like it should. It sounds like your MAF conversion worked just as you had planned.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Brooks, AB Canada
Car: 82 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 3 speed auto
sounds like my intake/carb replacement that turned into a complete computer delete that turned into an a/c delete that turned into an engine bay rewire. started... november. still have coolant pooling from under the intake manifold. runs though!
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 2
Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
wow, now I know what would happen if you use the wrong head gasket...
As for the thermostat, here's something that's going to make you grin from ear to ear; Jegs part number 720-2661
O-ring seals very well, never had a problem.
As for the laptop, you should have spoken up, I've got one I'd let you borrow for MONTHS. It's been sitting here collecting dust. I only use it to program Lt1 cars because it's got a serial port. If you want to borrow it you'll have to come to the NJFBOA April meet
.
As for the thermostat, here's something that's going to make you grin from ear to ear; Jegs part number 720-2661
O-ring seals very well, never had a problem.
As for the laptop, you should have spoken up, I've got one I'd let you borrow for MONTHS. It's been sitting here collecting dust. I only use it to program Lt1 cars because it's got a serial port. If you want to borrow it you'll have to come to the NJFBOA April meet
. Supreme Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,577
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR www.cascadecrew.org
Car: 1990 Camaro RS
Engine: Juiced 5.0 TBI - 300rwhp
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Eaton Posi, 10 Bolt
Man, that sounds liike a story that would come out of my garage...
did I mention I am STILL working on the audi?
peice of advice for everyone who is reading this . . . lable things when you take them apart. It really sucks when you figure out, you don't know every nut and bolt (like I do in the Camaro), and then you let the car sit disassmebled for over a month. It makes putting it back together like a great big puzzle. (in my case, a great big german puzzle, which makes it even more interesting.)
Just for perspective....
did I mention I am STILL working on the audi?
peice of advice for everyone who is reading this . . . lable things when you take them apart. It really sucks when you figure out, you don't know every nut and bolt (like I do in the Camaro), and then you let the car sit disassmebled for over a month. It makes putting it back together like a great big puzzle. (in my case, a great big german puzzle, which makes it even more interesting.)
Just for perspective....
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Originally posted by JPrevost
As for the laptop, you should have spoken up, I've got one I'd let you borrow for MONTHS. It's been sitting here collecting dust. I only use it to program Lt1 cars because it's got a serial port. If you want to borrow it you'll have to come to the NJFBOA April meet
.
As for the laptop, you should have spoken up, I've got one I'd let you borrow for MONTHS. It's been sitting here collecting dust. I only use it to program Lt1 cars because it's got a serial port. If you want to borrow it you'll have to come to the NJFBOA April meet
. I dont have power in the interior so I need the battery, and those 4 AH Li ion batteries are like 300+ dollars new. I have an old lead acid battery, maybe Ill just plug that in to the external power jack and run it off that one.
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