I took "project red", my 89 Camaro RS, 121k on the clock, 700R4 trans, to a group event with my fbody club to Visions of Speed in NY yesterday, to get some baseline numbers.

The car is pretty much stock, it has a gutted cat and thats about it for the performance mods.

This is a mustang dyno, so I know they are a bit lower than the dynojets, so I was told not to expect numbers to be too high. Also it was 102 degrees inside the shop and I had to drive 2 hours to get there, and my car ended up being the first one on the dyno. The pulls were made in 2nd gear because we were worried about it kicking down.

Anyhow, without further ado (ill post graphs later if people are interested)
As is: 131.1 rwhp@4000rpm/198rwtq@3000rpm
We then opened up the airbox (took off the top) to simulate an open element filter, and it did:
143rwhp/215.1rwtq

Im pretty happy with these results. They told me the dyno is about 10% lower than a dynojet, but I did some calculations based on my friends TBI that was dynoed there (with a lot more mods on a cooler day it did 137rwhp) and I would estimate it about 5.5% lower, to be conservative. That means with about 20% drivetrain loss, the car would be making 190hp/282 ft/lb tq at the motor with basically a open element and gutted cats as its only mod. I guess it depends on how you run the numbers, I think those are conservative. Time to actually go get that filter now...lol.

A couple of other notes:
--correction factor on the dyno was only 1.008 (less than 1%) for the heat and humidity...that didnt seem right to me.
--AF showed the car was way rich, probably some power to be had running more than around 11.0:1 or less on the AFs

 

Thanks for posting that info. IIRC the losses will be slightly more in 2nd gear than in 3rd so you lost a little bit there. As you suggested, the runs would have been better if the car had been cooler but it's ok because it represents worst-case.

Did you test with the hood open or closed and what were the rpms for the peak hp & torque values when you repeated the test with no air cleaner?

 

It was the same, I believe 4k rpm was peak power in both cases, and 3k rpm was peak torque.

The hood was open in both cases.

 

ok im gonna ruin my own thread with an extreme newbie question (and yes I did searches but it seems like one of the install guides is no longer online and I cant seem to find a parts list) but anyhow: I got the K&N E-1650 filter. For some reason I was under the impression I just had to flip the existing lid and use that, before I even open the hood am I gonna need a lid & base and where can I get one quick or am I better off just getting an entire air cleaner unit? If so some part numbers and brands would be appreciated.

 

Glad to see more people aren't afraid to dyno their cars. It would have been great to see some number had the car been cool but as kdrolt said this is a perfect worse case situation. You can buy an open air element from any parts store for around $20. You can add a K&N filter (14x3) later down the road if you choose.

 

Shifty is right. Just go to the closest auto parts store and pick up any regular 14"X3" open element air cleaner. I haven't been to an auto parts store yet that hasn't sold open elements.

Buying a lid and base seperately will cost you more than just buying a complete open element. Those pieces are hard to find seperately anyway.

 

ok thanks for the tip, I think I got thrown off when I was at A&A looking for one and the guy came over to me and asked me if he could help and I said I was looking for a 14x3 air cleaner and looked at me like I had just sprouted a third eye..oh well! Back to the store.

As for dynoing, I dyno or take to the track nearly everything I have owned. Among the lowlights, a 190whp ford contour svt that did 14.9@94mph on a 2.45 60' time at the track and broke an axle, a jeep grand cherokee that did a 16.16 at the track, and most recently my subaru baja turbo that did a 15.0@91 mph with a screwed up launch.

 

Any track times for the RS?

 

soon!

 

here's some pics of my new air cleaner and the dyno:

http://www24.brinkster.com/ezerner/red/red4.htm

-- I got lazy and didnt take pics of any of them except the best one. I also had a a pull that was 142hp/215tq, I just posted the 143/212.8 one.

There are also some pics of the car in general if you click on the links you can see the new paint/restoration, etc...

 

That's cool, don't mean to be an *******, but man run some degreaser on that engine bay. It would look so much better and not make that aircleaner stick out like a sore thumb.

You have a nice car and I am actually impressed of the gain just from an open element, I never knew the stock cleaner was so damn restrictive.

 

yeah everyone has been giving me grief about the engine bay-- in truth it didnt look bad until the flash managed to pick up all the rest dust from the paint that was in the engine bay. Ill clean it tonight!

 

Yeah i was thinking the same thing about the air cleaner sticking out. It does look good though. So what other plans do you have for the engine?

Bill

 

Im not sure at this point -- I will probably do a 3" exhaust next because those are fairly universal.

After that I think I need to decide if I am doing a motor swap or not. My main concern with the TBI setups is tuning -- I dont know if I have the patience to get into my own chip burning but that really seems to be the only way to go.

I must say, I really do like the noise the car makes now when you get on it and the revs are up there!

 

Everyone should take note of where it's making peak power too. Everything chokes this engine when it's stock.

 

I was a little surprised, i thought it would peak a bit higher (like the 4400rpm that its peak power is rated at). But it does carry the power through ~4600rpm+, so the stock shift points on the 1-2 and 2-3 are too low.

I was also told that I was not getting on it soon enough, so that probably effected my torque. I jumped on it about 3k rpm because I was afraid the car would downshift if I got on it lower, but I think my torque would have been higher if I was able to get it from 2500rpm.

 

You forgot to mention that you were running 6* advanced. That can make a pretty significant difference from stock.

 

Actually I just did that tonight. I took the car to my friend's shop and we measured the timing, which was actually slightly retarted. We then advanced it 6 degrees. At first I thought the car felt slower, but after driving it a couple of times after stopping for errands, it definately picked up.

I also got the subframes installed tonight -- I am really pleased how the suspension for the car has turned out, the car hugs the road and really handles awesome.

 

Keep adding suspension stuff and soon enough your LS1 car will seem like a slug There is no better feeling than a 3rd gen with all kinds of suspension goodies. It helps us get over that 170 mouse thats under the hood

 

Im already close to declaring it the best handling car ive ever owned, but the ls1 has drag radials, a high negative pinion torque arm and a spool in the rear right now, so its hard to judge compared to how that was before I screwed it up so it would go faster in a straight line. I plan on setting the SS up for road racing towards the end of the year (funds allowing), we shall see then.

 

hey man if you don't mind me asking how much do you have in the 00? Just wondering. I have always wanted to get something like that but always figured that it would cost a ****load of money.

Thanks

Bill

 

Just wondering, what was the part number and brand of the new air cleaner you put on there. That could eliminate my need for a new cleaner housing.

 

My problem was I got hooked up with a shop that basically could not kep up with the demand and starting cutting a lot of corners...so I spent more money than I should have redoing things that were not done correctly in the first place at another shop.

The big item is the motor, my shortblock alone was $5100, and the stage 3 ls6 heads were $2800. You should be able to do better now with all the ls2 stuff out. Add in the trans, the clutch, the rear, the suspension, and Im north of $20k of modifications on the SS right now. If I were doing it again, Id stop at a cam change with bolt-ons -- the car was plenty fast (running mid to low 12s) then and a lot cheaper.

 

I can check when I get back home, im on vacation right now, but it was basically a spectre 14x3 air cleaner that I got from advanced auto parts (I think). Its not with the air filters, its in the section with gauges and so on. Just ask a salesperson they should be able to direct you. There was also several other choices that looked similar.

 

That is crazy how much you have got in that car. Did you have a shop do all the work or did you do it yourself?

 

Most of the work was done by rapid motorsports in reading, pa. He does real nice work. I may attempt a motor swap or more things with the third gen myself (and probably will), I was just afraid to mess with the newer car too much myself other than basic bolt-ons.

I drive the car to the track, as much as 3 hours away, and just change the rear tires to run once I get there. Its pretty satisfying to run faster on motor than many of the cars that are trailored in, but I dont know if i would do it like this again if I had all that money back...lol. Now that Im married, I don't think i be able to get away with anyways.


If you ever do an ls1 buildup, shoot me an email ezerner@yahoo.com and I can point you in the right direction --good resources and things to avoid

 

Sounds good dude. I have been toying with the idea of puting an LS1 in my 3rd gen. So if I get around to doing it I will definitley shot you an email.

About the marriage thing...my wife needed to have a new living room set to justify thinking about doing a motor swap. LOL!!

Later

Bill