Well after sleeping on it I decided that I am going to scrap the 305 project (I know that idea lasted all of 3hours) and shoot for a 350 TBI nothing nuts but just enough to bring me to 300fwhp with room to goto 400fwhp if I choose. So I need a few things from you guys to start.

1) What can I pull a 350TBI and a rear with posi and somewhat adequit gears out of? - Answered
2) When I redo the ECM do i need the entire computer from the donor vehicle? And does it plug straight up inplace of my old one? - Answered
3) What work should I be doing to acheive 350hp? I was thinking:

• Keep stock heads and port and polish them
• Get a cam around an LT1
• Upgrade my TB to a holley 2" bore 670cfm and mod it out with the 350 injectors and a VAFPR injector pod.
• Some sort of Edelbrock intake manifold
• 1-3/4 prim, 3" headers and 3" Ypipe- 3" all the way back

4) What will the car need? I was thinking:

• Walbro fuel pump and adjustable pressure
• subframe connectors
• a posi rear - what size? I plan to pull this from the donor vehicle can that handle the engine at 350hp knowing what the packages included?
• I know my tranny will need a vette servo, shift kit, and a stall converter but what RPM?

5) Does the 350 bolt right up to my 700r4? Can my stock 700r4 handle 350hp with the above mods to it? - Answered

6) Where can I get a 9C1 LO5 chip? I plan to put a L98 cam in my engine before I drop it in. PS does putting in a L98 roller cam mean that I can get an truck LO5 rather than a car LO5 then just upgrade my cam and lifters or is there more to it? So if I can save $100 picking up the engine is it going to cost me $200 more to upgrade everything out to Hydraulic lifters / roller cam?

 

305-350-400 same block so your trans will work i have a 375hp 400 and it has held up with a shift kit subframe connectors are a must for any f body you will notice a difference when you drive it when i did mine it tightened the car right up as far as gears go the best thing to do nowadays if you cant afford to have a rear built is get a 4th gen rear itll bolt right in and you can find them with pretty decent gears in them as far as gears go i have 3:73's and its great for on the street some guys run bigger and as far as a cam goes call lunati or one of the cam companies tell them your setup and they will suggest a good one for your application also on the ecm maybe someone else around here would know ive been a carb guy until recently im getting a 91 z28(or rs i cant remeber) that is tpi so good luck with your build

 

Alright thanks alot! So I'll have a good chance of finding a nice rear out of a 4th gen then? I take it its alot easier to find them with Posi and nice gears than a 3rd gen or a truck?

As far as the engine goes the 350TBI's didnt have roller cams from what I am reading. Would it be cheaper to pull a 350 TPI out of a Camaro and just stick my TBI ontop?

 

your gonna need alot more than an lt1 cam and stock lo3 or lo5 heads to get anywhere near 350hp, let alone 400!

 

Suggest away thats why i asked...

 

Alright did some more research and found that I should pull my 5.7 out of a Caprice because its roller. Its true that a roller block is a better platform than a flat corrrect?

 

it depends on what's going on. because of the tbi, you're gonna have to go easy on lsa. something on a wide lsa, like a 112-114* lsa to keep the tbi happy.

are we talking 400rwhp? if so, i'd look into something like the cc306 cam and run a good set of cylinder heads. some severly worked over l98 heads or something aftermarket would do the job. at that power level, you'r gonna need something like the performer rpm or holley street dominator intake and a tbi adapter to feed it. 350-400rwhp is like 450-525fwhp depending on gear ratio and converter size.

what is the ultimate goal here? something that lays down big power on the dyno or an actual fast car? power output is not what it's all about if you want something that will run the strip well. you have to have the whole package. a car setup really well with 275hp that can get all 275hp planted to the ground will beat the car with 400hp if he can't plant it.

 

The plan is a fast car. I want to get into 12's on the 1/4. Thats pretty much my only goal.

 

Screw the Caprice engine. Get a 96-98 Suburban engine.

-Suburban engine is a 1-piece seal which is less prone to leaks.
-Roller Cam.
-Some are 4-bolt mains.
-Vortec heads, which will get you to 350 crank horsepower.

Put a HOT cam in it, have the heads machined for it, and get a Vortec TBI Manifold. I believe the owner of TBIChips.com used this combo with great success.

 

and then call BTE, ATI Performance Transmissions, EDGE Converters, Yank, or someone like that have have them build you a torque converter specific to the application. not cheap, but the best way to get a converter with the right stall speed and drivability. and the quality from those i listed is second to none. i'm personally running an ATI 10" unit that has a flash stall speed of 4000 rpms. locked up on the highway, it acts just like stock.

from there, get that rearend built to the hilt with good gears, posi, solid pinion spacer and a differential cover girdle. then you'll be pretty much set to go 12's.

 

The caprice is a direct chip and engine swap only need a knock sensor and fuel pump for it. Plus finding a vehicle that new is out of my budget not to mention the caprice is a roller cam.

 

Figured I'd also throw in that I am considering putting a supercharger ontop. I want to do a traditional one that mounts ontop rather than the side (looks like a turbo to me) and was looking at this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=WND%2D6500%2D1&N=4294908216+4294840140+4294889107+4294925239+115&autoview=sku

I am a novice to engine building and the only thing I know about building the engine around a supercharger is that you build for lower compression using pistons. Is there cams specific for superchargers like there are for turbos? And would adding a supercharger as a power adder decrease my fuel mileage because I do want to plan this build some what relative to my 15mpg ideal for my car. Is the super charger worth it is basically what I am asking...?

Ok this is probably the most important question I can put up here right now. What kind of car can I start looking to pull my LO5 from. I know 87-93 Caprice but I am also seeing that some Buicks have the engine. What year and Model?

 

Supercharger will probably be overkill with all the other mods, not to mention the difficulties with running TBI/speed density with a supercharger. Easier and cheaper to stay N/A. Spend the money on the drive train and chassis. I learned the hard way when everything after the crank blew and the car nearly sheared in half from the torque. Those are just as important as the engine.

 

Alright yeah supercharger was just an idea but I am more than willing to take the advice. I see you have a similar setup that I plan to go for have any advice? PS know anyone in NJ looking to dump a roller cam LO5?

 

Judging by this comment, your under a very tight budge. No way your going to make it to 350-400 hp. Your going to need all the chip burning equipment, good rods, forged pistons and a good set of heads. Just those parts alone will add over 2K to your engine purchase. Not to mention all the machine work, intake, exhaust, bigger TBI, and all the little things you forgot about. You can also forget about any mods past headers with the stock chip. As soon as you start changing cams and heads extensive chip work is going to be needed to even get out of the driveway.

We're kinda shootin in the dark without knowing what your budget is. If your aiming for less than 1k, then a later model suburban motor with a vortec intake might be the best bang for your buck, with the option of making more power later.

 

Well I'm not really on a budget I dont plan on doing this for another year so I have some time to build it and save money. I plan on building the motor up to 350hp eventually but as far as the condition its getting dropped in as I was thinking L98 cam as a platform for burning a chip. Basically I am dropping it in stock except putting the police cruiser (L98) cam in because theres a chip preburned for that. I'm not building up a beast on the motor stand than dropping it in and burning a chip, I'd never get it running... Ontop of the cam though I just want to put some performance pistons in because thats really the only thing I cant do when its sitting in my car.

If the suburban motor has the same compatability with my car as the caprice motor then yes I will broaden my search but my question is what does it cost to take the suburban LO5 from flat cam to roller? I've read all the truck LO5's were flat while the cars were roller. Isnt roller an advantages over flat because of less friction? I'd really like to know what it costs to go from roller ready block with flat cam to roller cam (besides cam obviously)

 

The suburban motor has vortec heads already on it and a roller cam. If you get a roller block that does not have a roller cam you can just swap the lifters, guide bars, and spider assymbly from your 305 onto the 350. A small block is a small block is a small block. About the only diffrences is in the intake, the vortecs require a vortec specific intake, 87+ heads have the center 4 bolts angles slightly different from the older heads which isn't a big deal you can just slot out the intake bolt holes and use a washer.

Keep in mind you can't just slap in pistons, you need to have the block at least hones, and if has some miles on it maybe bored, then again if your aiming for 400hp, then the stock rods aren't going to cut it either and you might as well replace them too. Now you have pistons and rods that don't weight the same as stockers and your balance is all messed up, so add another 200$ for a balance job. As you can see it's roller coaster ride. I would slap in a stock 350 and aim a little lower like 300-350 hp, which you can do with a cam and bolt ons.

 

Suburban motor is still an LO5? When I say 350hp I'm talking flywheel. Thats why I am thinking of getting a LO5 roller motor from a caprice and slapping a L98 cam in it and calling it a day til I can tune. With that motor base theres already a chip for it so it would run right as rain until I decide to do heads and I can burn a chip for new heads. I'm starting to think that my RWHP expectations are a little high for my budget and for a daily driver for a 17y/o.

PS : Will the suburban chip plug into my ECM? If not how do I get the car to run? A caprice chip isnt tuned for Vortecs.

Hmmm after re-reading I'm thinking that the suburban LO5 would be a better choice. Some nice $500 vortecs already sitting ontop. Now my only problem is the chip. Where am I getting a TBI chip that will plug into my ECM and run that? I know I could probably go with a caprice police chip but would it get the suburban engine running?

 

I wouldn't get all wrapped up in the engine codes..I think the vortec motor is a L-31, but I might be wrong. What makes a LO5 a LO5 is the swirl port heads and small cam. I'm pretty sure the police LO5 didn't get the bigger L-98 cam. The L-98 is pretty close to LT-1 specs.

There isn't a plug in chip for the vortec motor, they used a different ecm and most of the vortec motors used a cpi injection setup.

So maybe you would be better off going with a stock LO5, then again you have over a year to learn chip burning. Get the burning equipment for X-mas and start learning, you'll be good to go by the time you can afford the vortec motor.

 

Is there any reason why I cant get the LO5 and put vortecs ontop once I learn to tune? I mean stock LO5 is like 205 hp w/o nice breathing exhaust and intake. I think for now I will go the stock LO5 route with a L98 cam. I know for a fact that the LO5 police version has L98 cams in them and a chip to match. Which means I can snag any LO5 throw a L98 cam in it and buy the chip and call it a day til I learn to tune.

I think best estimation for an LO5 with an L98 cam and nice exhaust/intake would be 250hp whether thats fly or wheel I cant say I'm no expert.

 

*Reads this thread*

I am jumping off a bridge now. :sad:

 

I would recomeend a 3/4-1 ton Truck/Van 350 Vortec as well. You can pick them up for nothing. The heads flow pretty decently. They are already set-up for a roller cam. The HD trucks get 4 bolt mains too. The crank is nodular iron, the same piece that is in the ZZ4. The rods are PM, the same that are in the LT1 and ZZ4. Experts claim they are good to 450 HP. The crank is good to 425 HP and roughly 6,500 rpm. I would like to think that 400 HP @ 6,000 rpm would be perfectly reliable on the stock short-block.

 

Wtf is that suppose to mean?
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The problem here is the chip. I need a base chip for my foundation.

 

250 at the flywheel more likely.

It would probably be easier just to mod the current 305 if thats the route youll be taking. Id go with some decent heads, a mild performance cam, full 3" exhaust, etc. Also, based on my experiences with the weather here in NJ, Id stick with a standard type manifold (no airgap) if you plan on running the car in the winter. Same deal with the air cleaner. Best place for the air inlet would probably be near the radiator where it can get reasonably warm air at a somewhat constant temperature. Want it warm so the fuel doesnt pool in the intake when its cold out and want the temp constant so there isnt alot of skew in the fueling. In addition, dont even bother with the stock ECM, its junk. EBL is probably the best readily available option. I also woulnt get too **** about the stock tune. Its going to be hard to start, blow lots of smoke, and run like crap on the first startup no matter what you do.

 

Hmmm EBL?

I know the tuning is tough to get into. The reason I'm not keeping the 305 as a platform is because I plan to upgrade my 350 as I get better at chip tuning. From everything I have read about 305 350 comparison I'm definatly not pooring anything into my 305 that cant swap over to my 350.

 

Heads and cam can carry over if properly chosen. Id go with the L31 if your swapping in a used 350. Its better then the L05.

 

I am giving you advice based on experience. I am suggesting a engine based on experience and what you want and you quickly disgard it. I wish I had someone tell me to use that combination.

 

Yeah but the problem is that I have noone to tune me a chip for that engine if I drop it in. I cant do it and by the time the engine goes in its going to be my only daily driver so having it non running is out of the question. I am not discarding your advice I am only saying that raw power after I immendiatly drop the 350 in is not in my sights right now. I need something that I can drop in and still have run while I am learning to tune. After that I'll build it up.
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My biggest problem with taking a donor 350 thats not an LO5 is the chip. I will have no base chip to have the car run if I choose anything but the LO5. With the LO5 I know its not the most powerful stock route but in my eyes I can build it in the car after I learn to burn chips.

 

Put a carb on it. I hate carbs but I would rather see you with one than where youre going right now.

 

I wouldnt even bother with the swap at this time, then. Keep the 305 and tune with what you have, then once your comfortable, swap to the engine of your choice. The LO5 is a dog just like the LO3. You wont be terribly impressed with the results.

 

Carb is a no go I plan to learn to tune on my LO3 before I drop my engine so the truck engine might be an option now. Even if I dont I still think having the LO5 in will be a much better platform that an LO3. Like I said I dont plan on purchasing the engine til next winter/spring so i have alot of time to plan things out. So by then hopefully I will have tuning down so I can follow the cost efficient routes you have suggest with 3/4 truck 350's or the Suburban 350.

I guess the question now is - asuming I will be able to tune a chip to run a custom 350 what 350 would be the best bang for the buck? When I say that I mean horsepower, reliability, torque, and yes gas mileage. I am trying to aim 15mpg which is why I dont want to break 300hp too far. So far I have been told that the suburban vortec 350 is the best choice by one person and that the 3/4-1ton truck engine is by another. Lets hear the opinions and if you know what L## are the engines?

 

The L31 is the one that both VWDave and I have mentioned. It comes in trucks/Vans/Suburbans and more. I recomeended the 3/4-1 ton because it comes with 4 bolt mains, HV oil pump, and is a little more heavy duty. The compression ratio is the same on LD vs. HD vortecs, so the power will be the same. It is a 245-255 NET HP engine with 330-340 ft/lbs of torque. A dual plane manifold is worth another 10-15 ft/lbs over the stock GM CSFI intake with no sacrifice in HP. Headers and a full exhaust compared to the truck engine will give it 25 RWHP/40 RWTQ.

The 305 is not that bad of a platform to start with. You can get around 230-240 FWHP out of bolt-ons that can easily be transfered over to the 350.

Headers, Exhaust, 1.6:1 rockers, TBI mods, AFPR, open element, TUNING (the chip won't swap over but the knowledge given by tuning on a stock engine is in-valuable) all will.

 

Thats my new gameplan I am going to listen to those who know more than me. I plan on doing headers and exhaust on my 305 that can be transfered to my 350. I also plan to pick up the chip tuning equipment and try my first chip by tuning my increased CFM in my TBI to run better. From there I am going to pick up an L31 and modify a LO5 chip to accomidate the L31. That gameplan sound good?