Well you will not believe this I used AJ's mthod to check the pickup and its fine. Now there is no trouble code at all........I have done nothing but raise the Fuel pressure a little. It seem still VERY low on Power it feels like 150 HP. out of 325hp

Here is the scan results
@58 MPh at 1775 RPM

Idle air = 78 steps
Cooland temp 185*
Map = 2.07
TPS=1.13 volts
integrator= 114 (i don't know what this is)
Oxygen sensor= 431 mvolts
KNOCK 2
Rich lean flag= Lean (but goes rich when I get on it a little)


Thanks everybody for the help I just can't tell if these numbers are good or bad!!

Brian



------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over Hydro Pistons
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears with Posi...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter... Ultimate TBI mods...14X3 K&N open Element Non-Drop...Hooker headers....3" exhaust with Flowmaster Cross flow 16X8 Wheels from 97 RS Spohn LCA's Spohn Panhard Bar..LETS PLAY FORD!!

www.geocities.com/feltsb

 

OK you are showing at 58mph that you are cruizing along and a little lean. From TPS volts and O2 readin. This is to be exopected with your small injectors though. What is concerning me is that you are retarded 2 degrees from the knock. This should only happen under load. I bet if you do a WOT blast and have Pete (or someone else who knows what they are looking at) look at it you would see about 10 degrees of retard. That is why you are down on Power. SOmething is not right. I think it is time to get new bigger injectors.

Oh yea and you should get a code 12( I think thats the one) if everything is ok and normal in the ECM. GM high Tech Performance mentioned that in the Article this month.

------------------
89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

Integrator is the short term fuel correction.
BLM is long term fuel correction. Looking at both enables you to determine what is happening fuel wise.

128 = perfect (no correction)
Less than 128, ECM is taking fuel out
More than 128, ECM is adding fuel

114 means you are running rich.

Knock count is NOT the amount of spark retard. The TBI ECM's don't show any timing numbers. Knock counts increase everytime knock is read by the sensor.

What scan tool are you using?

 

Maybe the distributor's ignition module is blown and you are only running at the initial timing setting all the time with no ESC??? ie, no advance at all???

But should have no knock counts if that were true, unless you have something hitting your engine somewhere causing false knock vibrations, retarding your stock...

Defective knock sensor??? Disconect the knock sensor at the knock sensor conector on the block and go for a SHORT drive that way. YOU WILL HAVE NO KNOCK RETARD THIS WAY SO BE CAEFUL!!! If you hear ANY abnormal knock, STOP, hook it back up and go home...

EDIT: Also, show us the absolute MAP values from 20-100, not the MAP Voltage values, pls.



[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited July 12, 2001).]

 

I was comparing those to Turbo link where it gives the degrees of retard caused by the knock sensors. If you are correct I think it might be th knock sensor. Though I dont get it the computer is taking fuel away, but the O2 shows lean? 450mVolts it 14:1 absolute(which it will never read), see what I am getting at, or do I have the ideal # wrong.

Can you get the O2 sensors Delta COunts on that Scan tool?

 

Well lets start with Kyle.....a good brother would bring turbo link up!!!!

Fastbroker: My ignition module is new and when I plug in the ESC the timing jumps off the scale (past 15* BTDC they say this is normal)

Well a defective knock sensor is possiable however it is new also I will try to unplug it and see how it goes.


I can't get the MAP values with theis X-Ray I don't think......I can't find it.....is there another way to find this


Thanks again
Brian


------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over Hydro Pistons
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears with Posi...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter... Ultimate TBI mods...14X3 K&N open Element Non-Drop...Hooker headers....3" exhaust with Flowmaster Cross flow 16X8 Wheels from 97 RS Spohn LCA's Spohn Panhard Bar..LETS PLAY FORD!!

www.geocities.com/feltsb

 

You really can't look at the O2 sensor volts because it swings over and under .450 in its attemp to maintain 14.7:1. The Integrator and BLM tell you what is happening with part throttle fueling. You also have to run a fixed speed to get decent INT and BLM readings because moving the throttle gives kicks in the Accleration Enrichment.

2 knock counts is very small. I get 5 counts just starting the engine. Keep in mind once the counts get to 255 they start over at 0.

 

Brent:

When you talk about the BLM are you speaking of Block learn if so I am at 108. I am just pulling my hair out trying to find why this car has so little power.....As you can see in my signature........it feels like 150hp.

Brian

------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over Hydro Pistons
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears with Posi...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter... Ultimate TBI mods...14X3 K&N open Element Non-Drop...Hooker headers....3" exhaust with Flowmaster Cross flow 16X8 Wheels from 97 RS Spohn LCA's Spohn Panhard Bar..LETS PLAY FORD!!

www.geocities.com/feltsb

 

Yes BLM = Block Learn.

108 is the bottom Rich limit. Should be 124-128.

I'm not surprise that it is this rich. I scanned a car running a Howell chip that was the same way. Int 112 and BLM 108.

 

Do I need to back off the fuel pressure or do you have any other ideas on ly lack of power?

Brian

------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over Hydro Pistons
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears with Posi...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter... Ultimate TBI mods...14X3 K&N open Element Non-Drop...Hooker headers....3" exhaust with Flowmaster Cross flow 16X8 Wheels from 97 RS Spohn LCA's Spohn Panhard Bar..LETS PLAY FORD!!

www.geocities.com/feltsb

 

Don't touch the FP 'til you figure out your problem a little lbetter. You're gonna chase too many variables.

After unlugging the knock sensor and taking a test drive, your next step should be getting/borrowing an adjustable timing light to see where your actual timing is while on the ESC from the computer. Check it at idle and at like 3000rpm. I don't know the numbers you should se for your car but someone else here can chime in with them, I am sure...

Also, just because the module is new DOES NOT mean it is good. 9.9 out of 10 times if your BLM's are ok and there are problems like you desribe/are having, it is an ignition/spark curve/ESC problem somewhere. A little extra FP is being adjusted for by the ECU, which is normal, so don;t worry about it for now. Gotta find the BIG root problem and you can then fix the little roots later. Plus, with a bad ignition problem, you should find some BLM changes anyway when it is fixed...

The only other thing I can think of is a slightly bad O2 sensor (making you run really lean, fooling the ECU) or a connection problem with the O2 sensor, but I believe you've checked that out or replaced it. OR vacuum leaks...

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited July 12, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited July 12, 2001).]

 

Well fastbroker thanks for all the info, I have two ignition modules and they both do the same. I have had one problem maybe you can chime in on this........When the computer went bad it was spitting black carbon out of the exhaust and really fouled the plugs.......Do you think it could be the O2 sensor needs replaced???? or by the numbers do you think its reading good?

Brian

------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over Hydro Pistons
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears with Posi...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter... Ultimate TBI mods...14X3 K&N open Element Non-Drop...Hooker headers....3" exhaust with Flowmaster Cross flow 16X8 Wheels from 97 RS Spohn LCA's Spohn Panhard Bar..LETS PLAY FORD!!

www.geocities.com/feltsb

 

Have you checked or replaced the cat lately? If you can't get the exhaust out it will severely cut your hp. It's worth checking into.

Steve

[This message has been edited by steve8586iroc (edited July 12, 2001).]

 

The Car has no Cat. I told you it might be th )2 sensor that is why I asked if you could get the cross counts. A good O2 sensor should switch between rich and lean about 20times a cycle and what you see on you scanner is whatever it is at the split second it reads it, but the computer stores the cross counts and you can read them. I will try to get Turbo Link to you, but I would imagine if it worked on TBIs a lot of other guys on here would have had it already.

------------------
89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

 

Kyle: there was someone else here that used Turbo Link on the 8746 ECM. Shouldn't have any problems.

I'd like to look at some data logs of Brian's car on the road if you get it scanned.

It might be benificial to run the stock and modified prom with Turbo Link just to get an idea where fueling is.

 

I will be sending My Laptop, software, and cable to Brian sometime this week, and yes I will have hom store some of his runs.

Brian is your computer still in the floor board? If so I would be interesed in seeing the different values that eac chip gets as far as timing , fuel and tempurature stuff.