I know some of you like th Weiand 7547 or something like that. I was on Jegs and they said it worked well with a 3000 stall! Thats way too high for me. I want to keep the EGR b/c of the EPA j*ackoffs. Do you think I would benefit from this intake over my Performer TBI?
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...SM/300-64.html

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'92 Astro 350 TBI Edelbrock intake, MSD 6AL, 3.42's, 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster 40 2 chamber, B&M 2nd stage shift kit, 255 60 R15 tires on AR-727's, Polished & Bored TBI, Custom EPROM in progress

 

nah, just bore your edelbrock TBI intake out and put a 670 TBI on if you don't want a small single plane intake. BUT you have a 350 so you have lots of torque. I'd try the 7525 since you have a 350
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...AMSM/7525.html
They were telling me not to get the 7547 too but screw them. Pablo got around 260 HP with a small single plane on a shoestring budget on a 310cid chevy. That 7525 is a bit bigger than the 7547 but it has EGR like you say you want. If you wana put EGR on the 7547 check this out: https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002571.html
------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz



Got Beach?



[This message has been edited by Tas (edited October 09, 2001).]

 

It says that the 7525 is for aluminum heads. Does it matter if I have cast iron? Will it seal properly?

 

That is refering to the 4 center intake bolt holes. If you use '87 or newer iron heads the bolt angles will be different. You just grind the 4 center intake holes to be a little oval to fit.

 

If you need/want to keep some low-end torque in that van and/or tow EVER, do NOT use a single plane. No bashing or retort, please, just MO from recent dyno experience. Not a ton of loss, but not enough of a gain over an RPM intake to make any difference.

 

No its cool. Your right, I do want to do some towing every now and then. I don't want to lose my low-end, but I would like to gain a little high-end tho.

------------------
'92 Astro, GM crate 350 Performer TBI intake, MSD 6AL, 3.42's, 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster 40 2 chamber, B&M 2nd stage shift kit, 255 60 R15 tires on AR-727's, Polished & Bored TBI, Custom EPROM in progress

 

well I like the RPM too but the ports are big. Would there be any gain if the heads don't match? The small single planes like the 7547 and the torker 2 have ports the same size as the regular performer.

-Tas

 

You are correct, sir. But, the 7525 (?) mentioned above has HUGE ports and is recommended for cams of 250deg at .050" lift!!! Or, you have to use the INCLUDED plenum seperator, and the runners are huge!

My point is that the runners of the Torker II and other single plane manifolds are small, so why not just use the RPM dual plane manifolds? I am quite sure that they (dual plane) are superior manifolds (over single plane) for rpm levels of less than 6500rpm, never mind if the car is a driver and not a trailer racer... Again, no flame, just .02 and experience. The RPM manifolds are awesome manifolds, some Weiand/Holleys are great, too... Torker II is ok, but not superior to an RPM or even Performer under correctly setup engine. The important thing is to MATE THE MANIFOLD TO THE ENGINE COMBO and TO MATCH THE MANIFOLD WITH THE MAIN RPM RANGE OF THE USED MOTOR! A performer Intake can net 350hp 350cid EASY with a generic 214/224 cam and out-of the box Vortec heads, which is plenty, and the low-end Torque will tow just about anything you care to hook to.

[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

I have been pulling a 26ft trailer and a 14ft boat trailer connected to the back of the 26er running a performer dual plane all summer and thought this thing pulled great already. I just switch to a single plane weiand several weeks ago and rechipped my fuel curves/timing and hands down my truck out performs the performer pulling the same load. My truck also weights 6000lbs! When I drop the hammer for a major hill say goodnight to a late model ford, which my brother has. I have tons of torque in overdrive but afraid I will eat my tranny so try not to run in od. I also have 35” rubber on this beast. In short I agree with all single plane car owners, they run better on a fuely. My opinion only take it or leave it, I have tried both manifolds.

383 stroker, 64cc 23deg trickflow heads c/w weiand xcelerator single plane, adapter, cam is an extreme 4x4 comp. Cam. 12-235-2 grind ( .447/.462 lift, duration 210 218 lift @50, 111 lobe separation) . unit has hypr. Flattop floating pistons, eagle cast crank, 5.7eagle rods. 10.2:1 comp. Headers c/w 2.5” flowmaster exhaust. 16147060 pcm, $85def, 4:11 gears.
454tbi 80lbinjectors

 

 

What the part number for the one you're using? There are a couple different excelerators.

 

Sweet, what tranny and what rpm stall range converter are you running to tow with, PRSCARF?


TH700 with lockup converter, or non-lockup? What stall speed??? BFG tires? AT's, I bet? That truck must look good.



[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

hey FB, I just did the Ford TFI cap and rotor (aka TeamRush upgrade) to my '89 YJ's 258. I added a Blaster 3 MSD coil and MSD 8.5mm wires for the '93-'97 4.0 HO. I got more power all over the place and I didn't even touch my plugs! I'm gonna regap them this weekend and maybe replace them if they look like they need it. The blaster 3 has 45k volts and replaced the 12 year old stock coil that had 20k volts.

 

I still have an extra complete V8 conversion drivetrain, minus the motor, if you want real go juice.

I tried a clifford cam, all kinds of stuff in my 258 but then did the V8 thing. I have to admit, that little 258 in-line would grunt pretty good in the woods in 4Lo with manual trans.. nice motor and easy to understand why it was around so long...

[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

 

Sounds like a sweet truck!!!.

Let me ask a few Q’s, no flame intended:

You tried a Performer and it worked well but then installed a single-plane with PROM work and it was awesome, right? Did you perform the equivalent PROM work for the Performer usage for a proper comparison of the manifolds??? I’ll assume so…

A Performer manifold is a very incorrect choice for a 383 that highway cruises/tows at 2800rpm (you said you usually use 3rd gear??? So you don’t hurt the tranny) that ALSO has good heads and a decent cam and probably good exhaust, too. It just is sooo wrong for those heads…

Do you drive/tow in third because of the lack of 2000rpm torque? I ask because there is NO WAY YOU ARE GONNA HURT a 4L80E towing in OD??? Like not gonna happen…

Is the OD 2000rpm highway torque (not 2800 tow rpm) better with the Single plane or with a properly PROMMED Performer? I would bet on the latter… ie, is that why you tow in third gear???

Did you try an RPM or AirGap intake? MUCH better match to your use and rpm range. Like MUCH better, mainly for the heads, though…

Also, this is not a flame post, just asking stuff of a fellow truck owner. Also, I believe that for YOUR combo, the single plane probably you have is better for 2800rpm cruising and hot-rodding than a Performer BUT I think the BEST choice would be a big dual plane, like an RPM or RPM ArGap. Especially with those heads and rpm ranges you gave. And, when you get on it to race/pass, you will SURELY have better results with your single plane as the Performer is a bit too small for your combo at rpm/load, as I stated.

Got any pix? I should get some up of mine next week for you guys to laugh at… Later. Again, just asking. Honestly, I am considering a Victor Jr. for my FastBurns but just want to see what your experience is as a truck owner. I don’t like losing low-end. Like ever, as it is desperately needed to launch heavy vehicles, like ours. Never mind the more area under the torque curve, the more races you will win…

Oops, I'll also asume you are not using a plenum divider in the Single Plane as some Weiands come with one. which intake are you using? Part number of the intake?


[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

i have probably burned about 200chips for this engine with the performer on. i run the truck as a daily driver with a laptop beside me. i have tuned for months with the intergrator and blm lock at 128. my fuel is correct.

no flame intended, but i have rebuild approx. 20 700r4 and have a 88 700r4 in my other 87truck which i have rebuilt twice (stock 350 motor and drive, daily driver).
i can eat these for lunch anytime i want to smoke one if not operated properly. as for my crewcab, i have never had to rebuild this unit but know it is the largest tranny gm has for this era of truck, other than the new allison. i am sure i will be rebuilding this unit in the near future just because i have done so many 700r4. yes i have the larger clutches, sprags, 10vane pump, corvette servo,ect.

getting back to the intake, i don't care what you have, running a 6000lb truck, 8000lb trailer, 1000lb boat, your not going to have gobs of torque in od at 2000rpm locked up, PERIOD!!! i said i can hold and accelerate marginally with my small block and thants with a head wind. this is great!!! i had the 454's and this stroker can hold and beat most of the stock later units. this is alot of mass to move and hold. when you can spin 35"tires on a 1st to 2nd shift with stock converter and 6000lbs of truck c/w a posi, you have to have something under the hood. when towing this amount of mass i looked at the injector duty cycle and injector bpw, these change on the scantool. in od the #'s are larger because the engine is working harder to maintain speed, in 3rd i rev about 2800rpm which is still locked up on the tranny and the engine doesn't work as hard, and the #s are lower. i would expect better mileage.

i did more prom work on the performer.

i have plenty of torque under 2000grand and this intake is for 1500-6000rpm, not big runners by any means compared to my heads. and yes i am using the divider plate.

the only problem i am having is wot tuning it is laying down over 3500rpm, i have to check my fuel pressure. i do have the stock pumps and i did increase the fuel pressure with my regulator. plug cuts have to be done.

hope this helps.

 

You earlier said you had a 4L80E = TH400 w/OD??????? That is a VERY HD tranny!!! I have one on my Grand Cherokee 502/502 and it is unbreakable!!!

Right above you talk of a 4L60E = TH700?????? Is that what you have? or the 4L80E? I think you are getting confused on the tranny numbers.


I knew you had the divider plate in there. I rest my case... Did you try without the divider??????????????


Let's swap some pix? I'll post when I get em or email you.

I have to admit, I really do like the drivability for the GM TBI when PROMMED correct much better than a carb. It's just always "there", hot, cold, high or low, it is just nice.

I'd also like to swap some PROM stuff with you, to compare, if you'd like. Especially spark curves as we both use 7747...


[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

no i not mixed up with my trannies, i have two 4x4 trucks. one is an 87 c/w a 88diesel 700r4 tranny and my other truck has a 4l80e and i hope your right about the strength. i hate to have to yank this beast out of my truck.

i have not tried it without the divider, not sure exactly what it does but its inthere.

if you want to swap bins let me know. it will give me something to look at.

 

The diesel can beat up a TH700 but the 4L80 is very strong in OEM form and the best when you you get a monster upgrade kit put in at rebuild. I have never had to touch any of my 4L80's, though. Ever. Never heard or seen one ever break... I suppose they do, though. Just not in my world.

I actually need to change the PROM parameters in the 4L80E controller (Grand cherokee is carb right now) to change the shift points/hardness. I guess the box I bought to control it from GM is basically an engine ECU that just doesn't control an engine anymore??? I let other guys do that but now, I think I am ready to try.


The divider prevents the engine banks from seeing each others pulse signals, ie, prevents the manifold from acting like a "true" single plane. These guys don't use them, I believe, and if you take it out, you will most surely see a very large change in your powerband. ie lower torque at lower rpms BUT higher torque at higher rpms... Can't get everything, unfortunately... Not until they get electromechanical valve actuation, anyway...

[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

my $85 def and the pcm is great for all tranny and engine prom changes.

 

Yeah, see thats WAY more stuff than I got. I have a internally stock L05. I guess I should stick with the Performer TBI. At least, until I get some big a$$ heads and cam.



------------------
'92 Astro, GM crate 350 Performer TBI intake, MSD 6AL, 3.42's, 2.5" exhaust, Flowmaster 40 2 chamber, B&M 2nd stage shift kit, 255 60 R15 tires on AR-727's, Polished & Bored TBI, Custom EPROM in progress

 

Exactly, different COMBOS and different USAGES that are not on any comparable plane.

But, if it works better than your last combo, drive it until you find something better...

 

FB, what v8 conversion pieces do you have? My 258 only has 70k miles on it =( I wish I got a 4cyl so I wouldn't feel bad about yanking it out . Did you see the post on off-road.com where the guy got 289 RWHP from his 4.2? 4 barrel carb, header, cam, 3" single exaust to 1 chamber flowmaster, 4.0 H.O. head worked over by clifford or somebody, forged rods, better pistons...

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6
Mods and times:
TOP SECRET

Got Beach?


[This message has been edited by Tas (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

Haven't seen the article but partially lived it and saw/helped others do it. Just costed too much as compared to selling whathca got and putting in a v8

I got, in order of drivetrain:

- Low-stall converter, about 1300rpm or so...
- TH350 tranny, snotted out, won't break
- Advance Adapter, tranny to tcase
- NP231 tcase, 23 spline input shaft (not 21)
- Also, B&M star shifter


first $750 takes it, worth more, costs even more.

EDIT: You cold easily sell your powertrain (same pieces PLUS the motor/accessories) to a DEALER dealer for more than that even with the miles!!! I do it about once a month...


[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 11, 2001).]

 

it was just a post not an artical. If you do the work yourself it should be cheap. I think I'm gonna keep my 258 till it blows. How much do you think I can get for it? 70k miles

 

If it is running well and maintained and after the Dealer mechanic checks it over, you could sell it (motor, accessories, exhaust, harness, computer, tranny, t-case, driveshafts) to a dealer for between $750 and $1500, depending on who you know and if that dealer does or sees blown engines periodically. Bigger dealers see more stuff. If he needs it, expect the upper end of the range. If he is going to put it on a stand for a year, expect the lower end of the range...

 

one quick thing, my car is far from done there chief.. Im running stock napa valvesprings that break almost every 100 miles (replaced like 5 allready) might explain why it has never pulled hard up high. We'll see what happens when i change em

I wouldnt use the TorkerII again, i would definately go with the 7525, the torker II doesnt flow worth a damn beleive it or not.

 

hey pablo, I got the 7547. It looks a setp above the torker and below the 7525. The ports look big. Should go in in 2 weeks. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...AMSM/7547.html

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6

Got Beach?

 

Astro captian, my .02, bore the TBI out to 2"
and add the 670 holly or the 454 TB.I have this set up and it has TONS of torque all the way up to 5,300 rpm so far.
I am still having some problems over 5,000 rpm, but am working with tuner to resolve that.( It ain't the manifold, its a spark/fuel problem). Honest to *** ,I stayed with a WS6 up to around 120/130mph ( I burried my s****y speedo at 110 at 4,000 rpm) in 4th gear and I was till pulling hard but I started losing power around 5,300 rpm. Not bad for a heavy convert with TBI!
.......bob

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91 camaro RS convert,GM crate 350 with LT1 cam,edelbrock 6085 heads,9.5:1 comp, edelbrock TBI intake bored to 2", 65# injectors,454 TB, Command perforance custom chip(still tunning) ,dual fan conversion,
ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back,Flowmaster,
T-5, centerforce 2 clutch, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

Yeah, I want to but I think my Performer TBI is all jacked up. I don't think it was planed true when they made it. It just won't stop leaking no matter how hard I try. I think I may go with a carb intake just to get rid of this thing. I can get a carb intake for $106 and have a friend make and adapter with an EGR port for free if everything pans out.