89 4Mula 350 Tbi

Guys i'm so happy just got back from etown. I ran a 14.766 at 89.69 with a 2.064 60' time. I couldnt believe it. Guys is this good i got a 350 that is decked thats about all i know about the block itself and i got edelbrock tes 3 inch y pipe and header system A 3 inch cat and 3 inch cat back. The trans is a 700 with a shift kit. Was ne one there tonight i was the one with tthe 89 formula red. Later.

JPrevost

What 350 do you have? You sure it's a 350? You must be running a stock 350 like an Lo5 because that is a low mph for a 350 in a thirdgen. Even the 305 TPI cars run that mph. REALLY nice 60', was that on slicks?

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

89 4Mula 350 Tbi

Nope it was on dunlops that were hot lol. Well what do you have done to your 350 i know mine has week valve springs. Could that be the problem.

91rscruiser

only 89 mph?damn i ran a 15.8 at 86 with a 2.26 60 a week ago.you should atleast be at 95 with that et and 60 ft.,which was really nice may i add.how bout some more motor details?sounds like you just dont have any top end to me.

Peace im ooouutttaaa heeeere

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-1991 camaro rs,dark red metallic,t-tops,stock 15inch rims,Z28 bowtie grille insert with driving lights
-L03 305,TH700R4,2.73's,only mods for now are...Flowmaster 80 series replacement muffler,accel wires and coil,14x3 open element with K&N,lockup switch at the track,and a catco cat.
-best 1/4 mile times to date:15.89@86 with a 2.26 60 ft

[This message has been edited by 91rscruiser (edited October 11, 2001).]

JPrevost

I have the 330hp crate motor, vortec heads with stock press in studs and WEAK springs. I don't think I need to say more but you should really think about maybe gears or something else that keeps your car in it's powerband because that is a low mph for a 350 unless you are holding the gears too long and not shifting! Or running way lean beyond 4500rpm.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

brharris27370

I will bet its running lean. My 305 ran lean after the mods I have made. I doubt I am making more HP than a Stock L05 much less a 350 that has anything done to it. Check out the software on www.turbo-link.com that is the software I use on my TBI cars. Works great and gives you a lot of good tuning info. I have tweaked my fuel pressure and timing and the thing launches much better than with just the mods.

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91 Camaro RS 5.0L Black Convertible 700R4
** Added so far **
*GM Wonderbar,Alston SFC's,spohn LCA's and Panhard rod
*Turbo City Inj Spacer
*Dual Snorkel Air Filter
*March Performance Pulleys
*GM 3.42 Gears with OEM Zexel POSI
*Edelbrock headers
*3" High Flow Cat
*3" Dynomax Exhaust
*Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
***Future 330hp Vortec Crate with LT4 hotcam and 454 TBI

JPrevost

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002113.html
FREE scan software for our TBI computers

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

89 4Mula 350 Tbi

Thanks for the compliments guys. Also when i was at the nats i let the trans shift itself this time i manually shifted it at red line is that ok or you guys think i should shift ealiar. It was shiftin hard into second i was chirpen the tires pretty good. Also guys it think it is leanin out up top cause i still have the 305 injectors and prom what do you guys think i should do to solve the problem. Thanks in advance.

JPrevost

lol, still using the stock 305 injectors...THAT IS WHY! You have a 350, even the low hp 210hp Lo5's are using 55# injectors! The difference is: 305 injectors flow 40 and 350 flow 55 (some 65 in later coper cars). Do yourself a big favor and get the 55 injectors from a junkyard. You can pick them up for real cheap.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

89 4Mula 350 Tbi

Thanks for the info how would i identify these injectors in a junkyard? Thanks for the info.

jmp1999

The injectors will help. Yet I have already changed the injectors in my car and this wil only help if your fuel pump can keep up the pressure when the throttle is mashed.Sounds like I have about the same set up as you (already swapped the injectors though)
But im dropping from like 13.5 psi to below 9 when I floor it, just keep that in mind if the injectors by themselves dont help your times.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

In a Word TES headers also known as a waste!
Unless extensively reworked.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

[This message has been edited by Dyno Don (edited October 13, 2001).]

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Jon:
Actually, the "305's" are 55# The "350's" are 61# the cop cars are 68# (handy hint: the crossfire's are 67#)But you have to pull the locating pin out to use them.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam cange:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

NJ SPEEDER

huh? what is wrong with them? from eveerything i have seen all the headers flow about the same, slp, edelbrock, hooker, it doesn't matter. the slp and edelbrock y-pipes are very good. what woudl you need to rework on the headers?

later
tim


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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto
New Times Coming Soon!
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page
www.geocities.com/njspeeder
My MAFB.ORG Home Page
www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299
DSI Racing Home Page
www.geocities.com/foff667

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Tim:
All you have to do is have both of them in your hands at the same time.
The TES have the weld at the flange so thick the ports are smaller than the stock manifolds. The tubes go in the collectors smashed on two sides, the tubes going to the y-pipe are smashed on one side making them smaller than 2 1/4".
Enough said,go look! ! !
Don>>>

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam cange:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

DM91RS

Dyno Don I see that you have changed you cam. Do you like how it runs? You mentioned in an earlier post about ported swirlport heads, can this be done to the LO3 heads and how much will it help if at all?

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91 RS 5.0 TBI....LT4 cam....Edelbrock headers....3"Dynomax exhaust....5spd.... 3.08.....Ultimate tbi....afpr...

JPrevost

Well Dyno Dan, I guess I found the experts have no idea what they're talking about.
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/compone...injectors.html
That's from diy-efi.org and I don't know why they would post that info if it wasn't true. Please understand where I'm coming from. If you can backup your facts then please do so because right now I don't know who to believe.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

JPrevost: Those are the actual flow #'s derived from the flow bench at Turbo City who I was closely associated with. I can't vouch for the authenticity as I was not running the equiptment but applying a little shall we say common sense here, I don't think a 40#ph injector would feed a 5.0 motor, do you?




------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam cange:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

DM91RS: The way it runs is fantastic, no more nosing ove at 3600rpm's.
When it gets to 4000 now it is just about ready to run (feels like). I did do a custom chip so that made quite a difference.
On the swirl port heads, the exhaust is about the same on the "350" and the "305" heads, I was able to get the flow up to 186cfm from 144. The intakes went from 178cfm to 196. I did a dyno session before and after: 210 RWHP up to 250 RWHP after.
Decent gain for cost and effort.



------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

DM91RS

Dyno Don, are you saying that the LO3 heads that everybody says are junk are workable? What heads do you have on the 92RS? Oh and by the way, I do have the Edelbrock headers and I like them but they do have issues. I removed the air tubes, welded the hole closed and ground it smooth on the inside as the tube stuck out into the port alot. I can relate to the smashed tubes downstream also. My next set will be a different brand. Wish we could get some longer tubes in there though.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, they are workable all tho not great, but I wouldn't spend a lot of money on them.
I still have the stock 187 swirl ports on mine for now. But as you can see in my Sig.
a new project is on the way. Oop's I guess it's not there yet. SDPC base Vortec"350",ZZ4 cam, SLP 1 3/4 headers, AS&M runners,etc.


------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

[This message has been edited by Dyno Don (edited October 14, 2001).]

DM91RS

Thanks Don. I think that unless I change my mind again the Vortec's are going on. I have all the parts and all I need to do is some light cleaning and install.

89 4Mula 350 Tbi

Does anybody have dyno runs with the edelbrock tes header sytem and with the stock system i would like to see them btw i am running the system for the tpi cars that has the 3 inch y pipe. Thanks in advance


Btw what injector do you guys suggest i run.

JPrevost

Dyno Dan, depending on the hp, yes 40lb injectors should flow for 170hp depending on fuel pressure. I don't know what pressure they were tested for by turbo city but I'm guessing it was close to stock. Why would they decrease the fuel pressure to flow bench them? See where I'm coming from?
I don't really care what size injectors as long as they provide enough fuel for WOT but thanks for the info. Do you know where I can find information about the crossfire injectors and how to modify them? Thanks again

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Well Jon I don't know what information you are refering to but here's what I know:
I used them on my "350" El Camino with the standard TB they are supposed to be 67#. To use them you simply have to remove the little pin at the bottom that aligns them (use a pair of diaginal cutters or needle nose plyers)it's not needed anyway just make sure you line up the elec. pins.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

kdrolt

FWIW my $0.02:

(40 lb/hr)*(2 injectors)*0.90/{0.50 hp/(lb hr)} = 40*2*0.9/0.50 = 72/.50 = 144 hp

(55 lb/hr)*2*0.90/.50 = 198 hp

(61 lb/hr)*2*0.90/.50 = 220 hp

(68 lb/hr)*2*0.90/.50 = 245 hp

where 0.50 is a reasonable BSFC for a sbc at the rpm for peak hp and 0.90 is a reasonable (and probably optimistic) volumetric efficiency (VE). I also neglected the duty cycle in the above math: all of those equatiosn should be multiplied by something less than 0.90 to reflect the under 90% duity cycle of the injectors.

I've assumed the fuel pressure is the same one used when the injectors were rated by the factory, i.e. stock fuel pressure. And an implied assumption is that were have the injectors at a 100% duty cycle.

So a 40 lb/hr pair of injectors probably won't allow any sbc to reach 170 fwhp.

If we take the above and compare them to what the engines are rated for, i.e. LO3 and LO5, we get the max duty cycle:

LO3 with 55 lb/hr: 170 fwhp/198 hp theory = 86%

LO5 civilian 61 lb/hr: 180/220 = 82%

LO5 police 92-93, 68 lb/hr: 205/245 = 84%


I really don't know what the right numbers are for the injectors, i.e I've heard 40, 55, 61, 65 and 68 lb/hr for the small block TBI engines, and I've heard of 80 and 90 lb/hr injectors for the 454 engines. In a way it doesn't much matter, because the differences from a 61 to a 65 is slight.

I do know that the injectors should be large enough for the job and that the fuel pressure is high enough, so that the duty cycle is below 90 to 95%.

FYI.